Comments about ‘Red roundup: Kyle Whittingham joins Pac-12 coaches in discussing upcoming campaign’

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Published: Wednesday, May 9 2012 11:04 a.m. MDT

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MidMajor4ever
Syracuse, UT

Since there are so many mid-major byu fans commenting on this PAC 12 U of U article, let me toss out some conference standings that you can chew on:

1984 BIG TEN Final Conference Standings:

1. Ohio State 10 - 3
2. Iowa 8 - 4 - 1
3. Illinois 7 - 4
4. Purdue 7 - 5
5. Wisconsin 7 - 4 - 1
6. Michigan State 6 - 6
7. Michigan 6 - 6 (lost to Michigan State)
8. Minnesota 4 - 7
9. Northwestern 2 - 9
10. Indiana 0 - 11

Congrats on your come from behind 24 - 17 "*National Championship" over the 7th place team from a 10 team conference in a lower tier December bowl game. #84 SOS out of 110 teams and didn't play any teams finishing in the top 25.

Also, congrats on creating the need for the BCS to prevent the embarrassment from ever happening again.

MidMajor4ever
Syracuse, UT

Sammyg....

Seeing a fan of a team that was defeated 54 - 10 at home by that team is even more hilarious.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

sammyg:

Utah didn't fight for a 6th-place finish. We fought for a 1st-place finish. We FOUGHT for it, but we just didn't EARN it. What we EARNED was a 6th-place finish. What's "hilarious" is watching some Indy-WACey fanbase, so distraught with the envy and the insecurity associated with institutions that no other relevant conference will touch, so DESPERATELY try to downgrade Utah's previous season to justify all their PREseason "bottom-feeder" talk.

The numbers don't lie. Utah was tied for 6th-place, and cougar fans just can't admit it. Plus, Math is hard for Y fans.

sammyg
Springville, UT

Naval Vet

You are so correct the Utes fought hard, it's the fans that are so desperate to somehow elevate their 'real' 8th place finish to a three way tie for 6th place.

Everyone really knows where the Utes ended up. Go ask a Ute football player and he will in all honesty say that losing to the other two teams in the 3-way tie really feels more like an 8th place, not 6th place.

I'm not desperate to downgrade anything, it is what it is. Colorado 17 Utes 14 says more than I can possibly write about the matter. 4-5 in a conference, not even a 50% win ratio and somehow it means the Utes are in the top 50% of their class. Thank goodness for grading on a curve huh?

Again, seeing you and others debate 6th place is some of the best entertainment on these boards.

Call it what you want... it's still only 6th place, galaxies away from anything remotely close to a Top 25 / 26 ranking by a little independent church school.

LOL

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@stg

"When you find in the Pac-12 rule book the ever-important 6th place tiebreaking criteria, please recite it to me!"

Fom the Pac 12's football tie breakers rules.

Three or More Teams:

The following procedures will only be used to eliminate all but two teams, at which point the two-team tie-breaking procedure will be applied.

1.Head-to-head (best record in games among the tied teams).

2.Record in games played within the division.

3.Record against the next highest placed team in the division (based on record in all Conference games, both divisional and cross-divisional), proceeding through the division.

4.Record in common Conference games.

5.Highest BCS Ranking following the last weekend of regular-season games.

Let's see, #1 say's "Head to head (best record in games among the tied teams" utah lost to the two teams it tied for the 6th best record with with making it the 8th place team.

There you go. You can go ahead and fill naval vet in on that fact as well because he is clinging to that 6th place finish like a life line for his sanity.

LOL!

Seminolebob
JACKSONVILLE, FL

Seems to me the real fight here is BYU scheduling teams to play them. Utah is primarily set. What is with Cougar fans obsessive attitude about Utah joining the Pac 12? Go join your own conference rather than schedule sissy teams to boost your ego to play in mediocre bowl games.

StGtoSLC
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

Duckhunter, nice job finding the conference's division tiebreaking rules. My point is realistically there is no such thing as the "6th place," "8th place," or even "3rd place" team in the conference, because those rules only apply to deciding the winners of the north and south divisions. So somebody calling a team "6th place" is no more of a make-believe statement than calling them "8th place." Bottom line: either way, it changes nothing, it doesn't matter. Those teams beat us, good for them, they have bragging rights going into this year's game against them, but that's it, no medal for "6th place." We beat BYU, along with 4 other teams we will play this year, that's our bragging rights.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@stg

Actually it does matter and it does apply because that is how the pac12 seeds its bowl tie ins. So that made utah the 8th bowl team for seeding purposes. In essence they were the 8th place team. Now all of the teams got moved up a couple of spots because both Oregon and Stanford played in BCS bowls, that moved utah up to the 6th place bowl game, the sun bowl. But they were without a doubt the 8th place team.

What is actually fun about this debate is that if you go back to last off season utah "fans" were calling BYU the 5th place team from the mwc despite the fact they tied for 3rd place. Oviously they were trying to be derogotory. Of course they were wrong about that because BYU actually beat one of the 2 teams (SDSU) they tied for 3rd place with, the other one was Air Force who BYU lost to, so really that would have been 4th place for bowl seeding purposes. But I just really enjoy the hypocrisy. I'm not saying you are one of the hypocrites, just that they are there and they're fun to expose.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@seminole bob

BYU's schedule for this upcoming season.

Washington St. - pac12 team. considering utah plays the same team this is a wash.

Weber St. - utah plays northern colorado, this is a wash.

Utah - well I'm sure you think utah is better so we'll say BYU is playing the better team this week. LOL

Boise St. - they've lost something like 3 games in 5 years. I'd say that a tough game.

Hawaii - decent team, as good as lower pac12 teams

USU - good team, not great. As good as lower pac12 teams.

Oregon St. - utah plays them to. Wash.

Notre Dame - no need to comment other than 28-3 and not in utah's favor recently.

Georgia Tech - utah just played them and utah "fans" call it a "great victory over a quality opponent.

Idaho Vandals - They aren't good but neither is colorado.

San Jose St. - Once again not much worse than the bottom of the pac12.

New Mexico St. - Once again bottom of the pac isn't much better.

Really that is a pretty decent schedule. The last 3 are pretty weak but overall it is a good schedule.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@seminole bob

utah's schedule

Northern Colorado - hmmmmmm....

Utah State - they both play these guys.

BYU - aren't you guys claiming this one is a gimmee? If so you get no credit for playing it.

ASU - not a very good team although they did pound utah last year.

USC - ok this is a good one. About on par with Boise St.

ucla - really bad team with a new coach.

Oregon St. - they both play these guys but they aren't very good.

Cal - mediocre team but of course they pounded utah.

Washington St. - not very good but they both play them.

Washington - decent, not great, team. About on par with Georgia Tech. They did destroy utah.

arizona - bad program. bad team.

colorado - one of the worst programs and teams in all of d1.

Frankly utah's schedule is pretty weak. Yea I know it's a "pac 12" schedule but to everyone that isn't a utah "fan" that doesn't mean much. utah "fans" are simply deluded and think pac12 automatically makes a team good.

That said utah will not have any better of a record than they had last year.

LOL!

StGtoSLC
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

Sorry buddy, bowl tie-ins do not work like that, except in the NCAA Football '12 video game. They work on an invitation basis, with certain bowls obviously having obligations to invite specific conferences' teams or individual teams if any remaining are eligible.

For instance, UCLA, who won the south, was invited by the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl, the lowest-tier bowl associated with the Pac-12. Arizona State, who by your tie-breaking scenarios "placed" ahead of Utah, went to the Maaco Bowl Las Vegas, the next one up from the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl.

Continuing moving up, the Sun Bowl picked Utah, but there was speculation prior to that that we could be invited by the Holiday or Alamo (traditionally the 2nd- and 3rd-best Pac bowl destinations), since Utah, Washington and Cal all had 7-5 records and Stanford was expected to receive an at-large BCS bid and USC was ineligible.

StGtoSLC
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

The point of all that: no, there is no seeding in Pac-12 football. There are the division winners who play for the conference championship, and then there is everyone else. No designated 6th place team, no designated 8th place team. This entire argument has been pointless on both sides.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@stg

Not so. Agreements were reached for the teams and what bowl they played in but they do line up according to those seedings. There are plenty of articles out there on this that you can easily google. I did.

StGtoSLC
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

Ha yeah I did as well, so I guess once again, we'll have to agree to disagree. Yes, I know there is a pecking order, but that is in the order in which bowl committees get to invite eligible affiliated teams. There is not a person alive who believes for one moment that the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl is the best non-BCS bowl for the Pac-12, evidenced by the fact that it pitted a 6-7 team up against a 6-6 team this past year.

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

Duky: "utah "fans" are simply deluded and think pac12 automatically makes a team good."

Actually according to Rivals, etc. it does, just go see our pre and post PAC-12 recruiting class talent. PAC-12 affiliation automatically opens up doors, winning keeps them open. What makes a good team is talent and coaching, and I feel we have both.

I think we can all agree with ESPN's analysis of Utah's 1st PAC-12 season:

"Still, the initial verdict is fairly positive. While the grind of Pac-12 play is far different than the Mountain West Conference, it's clear that Utah can compete in the Pac-12. They figure to be a long-term fixture in the South Division race."

Can't wait for the two South top dogs to battle in Season II ... USC @ RES.

Go UTES!!

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Duckhunter:

"Actually it does matter and it does apply because that is how the pac12 seeds its bowl tie ins. So that made utah the 8th bowl team for seeding purposes."

Nope. StGtoSLC was correct. Those tie-breaking rules ONLY apply to who represents their respective divisions in the Pac-12 CCG. Furthermore, note the Bowl selection committees' version of "seeding". For 2011...

#1 - Rose Bowl (Oregon)
#2 - Typically the Alamo Bowl, but Stanford was invited to a better bowl (Fiesta)
#3 - Alamo Bowl (Washington)
#4 - Holiday (California)
#5 - Sun (Utah)
#6 - Las Vegas (Arizona State)
#7 - Kraft Fight Hunger (UCLA)
#8 - New Mexico (n/a for 2011)

If Utah was the #8 team, how did they get the #5 Bowl? Silly desperate frantic and emotional coug. Just be grateful the WAC didn't fold for 2012, or you wouldn't have had anybody to play with.

P.S.: Did the Big 12 call yet? [*snicker*] Because it appears they've been casting their eyes eastward to Tallahassee. And last I read on ESPN a few months ago, Louisville and Cincinnati are still the line ahead of you.

*Ahem* "LOL"

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Duckhunter:

"USC - ok this is a good one. About on par with Boise St."

NOBODY -- not even Boise State -- thinks BSU is on par with USC. Not for 2012 anyway. From the 2012 preseason polls I've seen published...

(1) Mark Schlabach ranks USC #1. Boise St. was #21.
(2) "College Football News" ranks USC #6. Boise St. was #17. Utah was #13.
(3) "ESPN College Football Live" ranks USC #1. Boise St. was #23.
(4) "Athlon" ranks USC #2. Boise St. was #24.

Phil Steele will put out his magazine next month. Then you'll see how your SOS ranks compared to ours.

In the meantime, feel free to produce ANY legitimate polls not published by cougarboard, DeepShadesofBlue, the DNews, or any OTHER suspect polls produced by your blue-goggled alumni that shows Boise State on an even keel with USC. Don't tell me to look for myself, because I already did, but didn't find any. Those 4 bullet points above are all I found.

P.S.: I didn't find any polls that ranked the Indy-WACers ahead of the Utes either. "LOL"

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@naval

You're wrong, nothing unusual about that. And the fact you frantically and emotionally responded is the iceing for me :)

I didn't say anything about this years rankings but as a program Boise is on par with usc. Maybe Boise will be a little down from where they were but playing them is a big noteworthy game of national interest and that is my meaning, not that one is ranked higher than the other in pre season polls.

As for the bowls utah was the 8th seed. They get to the 5th place bowl because usc was inelligible and two others went to the bcs. If only one went to the bcs and usc was eligible utah would hae been in the #7 seeded bowl but got "lucky" and "got to" go to el paso where you falsely have claimed to have attended.

Also I like independence and have no desire for BYU to join a league. You'll have to find someone else to use that one on.

p.s. BYU was ranked ahead of utah in the only poll that ultimately matters, the final poll. Pre-season means not a thing.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@naval

I notice BYU just got their 7th football player elected to the NCAA Football Hall of Fame. Of course Coach Edwards makes 8 Cougars. I couldn't find any ute's anywhere in the vicinity of the hall of fame. Must be a conspiracy.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Duckhunter:

"They get to the 5th place bowl because usc was inelligible ...BYU was ranked ahead of utah in the only poll that ultimately matters, the final poll. Pre-season means not a thing."

Haha! The only reason why the Indy-WACers got IN to that poll was because...USC was ineligible. Well, THAT and the fact that your mid-majorey team loaded up on a bunch of weak-WAC games in order to hit that 10-win milestone.

And the only score that matters is 54-10. You lose.

And I WAS in El Paso. Where where you? On another "business trip" to Tulsa? You certainly weren't in Dallas. Nobody went to that game. And they didn't watch in TV either. "LOL"

P.S.: At least one Pac-12 will ALWAYS get a BCS bowl. No Indy-WAC team will EVER get one. Mid-majors forever.

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