To "Mormoncowboy" idol worship is exactly as Graham described. It is
putting things of this world ahead of God and your fellow beings.If
you don't go to church and serve in the way that the church defines
service, what are you doing with your time? Are you sitting around watching
Nascar and Golf, or are you seeking to do the things that God would have you
do?If you are not going to a church (any church) becaue it cuts into
your leasure time or because of any reason other than because of work schedules,
aren't you being selfish with your time? You have 168 hours in a week, and
God only asks for a few hours to come to his house of worship for a visit.The ironly of your last post is that you complain about people feeding
their ego with self righteousness after you call Graham's Church bogus.
Doesn't that seem a bit self righteous to you?
Redshirt1701:I agree with you that in the hierarchy of things,
placing a priority on people vs things, is the more ethical path. However, that
would still not be idol worship. Even more to the point however, Graham equated
idol worship with those who would "serve money" rather than "serve
God". His argument is about denigrating those who refuse to accept his
ideology. They are idol worshippers not because they actually worship their
material possessions, but because Graham and other self-righteous preachers are
only too happy to hurl peoples own possessions at them, simply for disagreeing
religiously. If I don't go to Church and serve in the way that the
"Church" defines service, then the only explanation that people like
Graham can come up with is that I must be an Idol Worshipper who loves money
more than God. Certainly Graham wouldn't entertain the possibility that
maybe I just think his Church is bogus. We accuse people of idol worshipping
only because it serves to reinforce our world-view. It fails to "serve"
the idol worshipper, favoring instead the ego of the self-righteous who use it
to elevate the perception of themselves.
To "LDS Liberal" don't worry, there is still hope for you to repent
and begin to follow Birgham Young's teachings agains. There are many of us
who await the day when you and the others that have apostasized from the
teachings of all the prophets, including Brigham Young, will return.To "Mormoncowboy" Billy Graham is correct. It doesn't matter if
you believe in the Bible or not. Are you a better person if you are more
concerned about material possessions? Is the better person more concerned about
helping others?If you are more concerned about material possessions,
then you are practicing a form of idolitry. If you are more concerned about
others, then you are following the teachings in the Bible (regardless of your
belief in it).
Sharrona:You can quote scripture all day long, but I reject the
authority of the Bible, so it doesn't persuade me much. I would note
however, that I reject the authority of the Bible on the basis of my views on
the Bible, not because my possessions placed me in an either or scenario.
Mormoncowboy Even if a person refuses to accept God, how can you defend the
argument that they "exchanged" your God for their material possessions?
Were I stripped completely of my possessions, I would still reject your idea of
God.The Noetic Effects of Sin. "For since the creation of the
world God& hiss invisible qualities; his eternal power and divine nature;
have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people
are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as
God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish
hearts were darkened.(Romans 1:20-21).For it is by grace you have
been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God
not by works, so that no one can boast.(Eph 2:8,9) Christians are saved to
worship God not ourselves.Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs
is the kingdom of heaven.( Mt 5:3) poor in spirit in contrast to those
spiritually proud and self-sufficient theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Sharrona:Even if a person refuses to accept God, how can you defend
the argument that they "exchanged" your God for their material
possessions? Were I stripped completely of my possessions, I would still reject
your idea of God. I would not however find some alternative God to worship. The
Idol argument here is not justified. It only offers self-righteous religious
folk a subject upon which they can esteem themselves above those who do not
share their beliefs. It say's everything about you and Billy Graham, and
very little about those to whom it is directed.
Elderly men are often angry about something, especially if they find themselves
in front of an audience. Their anger is usually implicit, expressing approval of
those who agree with the way that they think the world should be, the way that
it was when they were young men, "the way that it sure as heck isn't
nowadays." Grandfathers should learn to be grandfathers.
Re: Mormoncowboy, but not to the point that people actually worship their assets
as an idol. No one uses a car to facilitate the worship of an assumed deity.They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served
Created things(tree huggers,occult) rather than the Creator—who is forever
praised. (Romans 1:25)No man can serve two masters: for either he
will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and
despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon(Mt 6:24)You're gonna have to serve somebody, Well, it may be the devil or it may
be the Lord But you're gonna have to serve somebody. Bob Dylan.Matthew 6:21(NIV)For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also
Two thoughts:1. The greatest things in the world aren't
things.2. Attorneys, accountants, doctors, journalists --
professionals generally -- deal with "conflicts of interest." They are
pulled by competing interests. An attorney may be tempted to run up his fee,
performing minimally helpful work at his client's expense and to his own
enrichment. A journalist has a duty to the public even if the story is about
the reporter's employer. A doctor may be tempted to refer a patient to a
lab in which the doctor has a financial interest. In these cases, the greater
loyalty is to the client, patient or public.And the clergy? Do the
clergy tailor their message to the "itching ears" of the congregation (2
Tim 4:3), so as not to impede the donations? "Priestcrafts are that men
preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain
and praise of the world; but they seek not the Welfare of Zion." Even
preachers must avoid idolatry. Reverend Graham is Exhibit A as one of the best
examples of humility and circumspection. President Spencer W. Kimball rightly
referred to Reverend Graham as "a great preacher." He is.
This is an old tired argument, and like the first time it was stated, it's
just a weak attempt to shun materialism by juxtaposing it with idolatry. The
idolatry mentioned in the Old Testament, was the worship of other God's.
People would fashion caricatures of those God's and proxy worship that God
by bowing to the idol. It's not even in the same camp as materialism.
Materialism is about self gratification and wastefulness. We've all been in
the Sunday School lessons where people say something like "his money is his
God", or "he worships his car". When we say stupid things like this
we are not stating of valid observation, but rather are attempting to build
ourselves up by self-righteously putting others down. There is little doubt that
materialism can be a personal weakness, but not to the point that people
actually worship their assets as an idol. No one uses a car to facilitate the
worship of an assumed deity. There's that New Testament scripture about
motes and beams in a person's eye...I believe that apply's here.
Not only things like American Idol but in all things that take attention away
from I will say family AND God..... Whether it is the fancy automobiles, the far
larger than necessary home.... The more than necessary sound system.....
Anything that enhances or creates the distance between the individual and what
is most important in the larger picture is what becomes their idol.......
I suppose he does have a point, there is a lot of obsessed fans of American
Amen!Brigham Young taught the Mormons the same thing, but sadly many
modern LDS have apostisized from those teachings.
More like 'Idolatry: An even worse problem today than ever in the history
of the world'.