Of course the employees of SUWA (all 20ish of them in the state of Utah) and the
Sierra Club employees are going "create a coalition"(doesn't that
sound important) and "blast" us for wanting a voice in our own
state's destiny! These are the paid non-profit parasites, most of whom
were imported to Utah to suck salaries while they misrepresent the facts and
file spurious lawsuits that you, the American Taxpayer, have paid for! The poor
SUWA -- they might have to get real jobs! Joane Pappas WhiteAttorney-at-LawPrice, Utah
There is a fundamental misunderstanding of what this is all about in these
comments. The state is not doing this to pave roads or grab land. The RS 2477
process is to keep what is already on the ground an in use open. It's not
about taking anything, developing anything or paving anything. It's about
trying to keep public access where it has been historically. Nothing more,
A little homework:The San Rafael swap that was torpedoed by
environmental groups claiming the appraisal of the swap was not equitable
because the appraisal did not include all the estimated oil that might exist
under the land: Because of those complaints (from environmental
groups) the Interior Secretary took up the cry and scuttled the deal: This also scuttled the ability of Bush to create another National Monument in
the San Rafael Swell on request of Governor Leavitt. Again, Environmentalists,
not Utahns or republicans against this.Please also refer to the
Grand Escalante Staircase Monument created by Clinton which locked away Utah
School trust lands and prohibited mining and minerals leases which would have
been used to pay for Utah Schools.
You know, I've never read anything or heard anything positive about the
EPA. So drawing a conclusion of what I have researched and been made aware of,
these enviromentalists(EPA) are doing nothing but causing problems, costly
problems where it is not warranted. There has to be something wrong, actually
there is something awry with someone thinking that it is wrong to kill animals,
poultry, etc. for survival. The good Lord did not put them on this earth to be a
source of beauty; but to provide food for the living. These left wing
liberalists waste more time and effort fighting for something that is out of
their control and hopefully someday they will see the light and start spending
time on things that are useful and beneficial to our Country.
'IF' the road is a 'genuine' road that existed before 1976
then I say go for it. Unfortunately many of these are dry wash beds, recently
created trails from ATV's, or simply animal trails. Herbert once again is
full of lies and deceit.Salazar himself has said that he is willing
to work with the states in identifying and coming up with a solution for this
issue. There is a great story on it at nationalparkstraveler.com. Go look it up.
I find it hard to believe that we can't fund our education
because the Feds own so much of our land. That's a joke, there is no
correlation between the amount of land owned by the Feds and the amount of
spending per student. We are last in the nation in education because we
haven't treated it as a priority.Heaven forbid we try to
preserve any of our land and heritage for future generations. Herbert would have
us drill every acre of our land just to lower gas prices 20 cents. Short sighted
Thanks for the "clarification" Bear, but I didn't say anything
about taking my property, I said I don't want them grading the road to or
on my property. I think I was pretty clear about that. So you're OK with
the state or county grading across your property? Sorry friend, not me.
Re: "This isn't about liberal or conservative . . . ."Yeah, it is.Liberals and tree huggers will say anything, true or
not, to ridicule and marginalize those of us pointing out that the federal
government has gotten WAY too big and WAY too powerful.We refuse to
take seriously your assertion that the state may also be too big powerful, as a
serious argument against federal land-use power gone wild.No one
honestly believes federal bureaucrats 2000 miles away will be more protective of
Utah property rights than Utah authorities.
RE: JimmyJackJohnJonesThe only way they can take your land is with
eminent domain. So unless they are trying to build a freeway on your land or
something of that nature they are not trying to take your land. This story is
about ROADS, specifically RS2477 roads that have been in place prior to 1976.
If a road goes across your property and is a public road then an easement is
already in place to have the road. No, Garfield County probably won't be
improving the road but if they get ownership then they will maintain it.
It seems to me that a number of years ago a group including so called
environmentalists in California worked very hard to keep land owners from
keeping their claim on land and water in a valley east of LA.Finally
they took all the water and the land owners lost everything.Here in
Utah they take the land to keep us from using it and then once that is
accomplished they will claim we no longer need the water and give it to
California.What do we have left. Wilderness with nothing.
Boy there sure are some angry posts here. This isn't about liberal or
conservative, it's about a ridiculous and specious waste of taxpayer time
and money by Utah's elected officials. I own property near where they want
to take control. They aren't just trying to "take" roads from the
Feds, they have a whole list that are private property, mine included. So
where's the outrage about that, state's righters?Deseret
News, why no link to the maps? If people knew the legislature might have their
property in their sights people might feel a little differently. Garfield
County sure as heck isn't going to be "improving" the access road
to my property. Go to the SUWA website and look at the maps,
specifically the private property locations. Yours might be there. Do you want
the county grading your land?
RE: Happy Valley HereticThose sites you list are not public land and have
no reference in this discussion about public roads. Yes, there are cows and
sheep on public land and has been since before Utah was settled. They are not
unwatched. Just because the rancher was not there when you saw the cow does not
mean they are not watching out for them. Those animals are their livelihood and
they treat them as such. You do realize that someone pays to have those animals
out there? It is called multiple use. We have lots of room in Utah for
everyone who wants to use the public land even for the big egos of the
If someone wants to build a road or a facility, they are required to do an
environmental impact study. So if someone wants to close a road, they SHOULD be
required to do the same to objectively demonstrate the reasons for closure.They should have to demonstrate irreparable environmental harm for any
road they want to close. As it is, they only assert, but do not demonstrate.If your concern is archaeological sites, address their security
directly; don't close roads.
Fringe environmental wackos doing what they do best.....filling newspapers with
distortions and half-truths.These people are so extreme and
inflammatory it is impossible to to take them seriously or give them a shred of
credibility.These are akin to the same groups who claim all the
glaciers would be melted by 2025 and that polar bears were going extinct.All lies!!!
the existence of two track trails dramatically fosters vandalism at
archaeological sites and the results are irreversible. "These roads to
nowhere are being used by vandals and looters to pillage our collective past for
personal gain or selfish curiosity," No lotter ever hiked into
an area to vandalise or loot. What a typical generalization.
procuradorfiscal said:"Special interests," that is, like us
rural rubes in farming, ranching, and mining families, that have maintained the
land in its pristine state for generations.What are you talking
about "pristine" "Moab uranium tailings" Murray Super site Clean
up" Magna Corp" Cows and sheep through out the Uinta's and the
deserts (unwatched and on public land) Energy Solutions and Mike Lee Corp.
Attorney. Farmers generally own the land, good guys, don't know why you
included them? Yep your right, these wacko's don't understand that
Utah Wants to be America's Dump, and Utah's locals are willing to sell
School lands for a 1 time paycheck, Your representatives really care.... about a
The State is not going to pave these roads. Yes, they will be graded and
maintained when needed but very few if any will ever be paved. These are roads
that have existed for at least 36 years (pre-1976). They are used on a regular
basis by the citizens of Utah for outdoor recreation, mining and ranching.
People have lived here and used these lands to make a living for hundreds of
years and the land is still in pristine shape. I have to tell you I trust a
cattle rancher to tell me what the land needs more than some educated
environmentalist. The cattle rancher has a vested interest in keeping that land
in the best possible shape.
Keith, have you ever looked at a map to see where these pockets of state land
are located? Have you ever investigated what kinds of resource are -- or are
not -- located on any of them?Several years ago, when the Department
of Interior suggested a wholesale land swap in which these lands would be
consolidated into several larger parcels located closer to roads, the idea was
hooted down by Utah's conservative Republicans. And some of those parcels
would have been rich with usable resources.Do your homework before
you start shouting.
I think that the real danger if you travel outsite of Utah and talk to people is
the perception of people from Utah and of doing business for or with Utah
people. These are real businessmen.There has veen talk of MAKING
Utah maintain any roads they claim or forfit federal road money which comes to
Utah. I don't know how a nationwide vote on that would go but I think we
would ultimatelt come up short, I understand our County has said ro some
landowners they can't even affort to maintain all the roads on their system
now.I understand over in Millard County the County is even
advertising in the paper that they are going to close some roads now on their
(Class D ?) Road system. I guess they do expect any more development or
subdivision of property out that way, no pipelines, no powerlines, no public
access.It does seem like there could be big legal bills for this
argument on both sides, and the public is paying the bill for BOTH sides.
It just doesn't seem realistic to believe the state can solve all its
education problems by selling 'desolate' and 'hostile'
lands. What happens when the golden goose runs out of desolate lands to sell?
Anyway, I thought senator Stephenson said you can't solve the educational
crisis (or whatever he called it) by throwing money at it.
The environmentalists love to use the law to get their way, now that the state
is using the law to fight them they are calling foul. It's interesting to
watch them claim how keeping things as they are now (those roads can and have
been driven on for a hundred years) will bring big changes to the enviornment.
They fail to admit that it's them wanting to change things not the state.
Cats: "I am soooooo sick of these people."Yeah, I'm
with you there. Greedy politicians who want to turn our public lands over to
developers and mining corporations so they can get rich while we pay the bills
for their misadventures is pretty sickening.
Re: A coalition of environmental groups said Utah's claims . . . are an
"absolute travesty" being pursued despite economic folly and disastrous
environmental consequences.Well, of course they said that.Radical tree huggers consider humans a toxic, exotic species that must be
eradicated from all federal lands, and that those lands, particularly in
politically irrelevant "flyover country," like Utah, must be permanently
locked away as petting zoos for back-East and Left-coast liberal elites -- to
protect them from vicious "special interests.""Special
interests," that is, like us rural rubes in farming, ranching, and mining
families, that have maintained the land in its pristine state for generations.
I am soooooo sick of these people.
Just becasue some tiny band of endless protesters say something or send out a
press release does not mean that it is (a) accurate, or (b) worthy of being
repeated in a reputable newspaper.SUWA and their radical
environmental views should be treated as the fringe element it really is.The people who have credibility on this issue are the Utahns who live
and work in these desolate regions of the state, and have to coax a living out
of hostile environments. THey barely make it running cattle, but would go broke
if they had to depend on selling granola bars and water in biodegradable bottles
to Birkenstock wearing hippies who want to hike into the areas.
Blocked access to Utah school lands has prevented them from being used to pay
for Utah schools.Yeah, these are your lands and the
environMENTALists have blocked them from paying for your children's school,
education and enjoyment.More power to John Swallow and returning
those lands and their usage to their rightful owners... the citizens of Utah.
Awww... those silly enviros - getting in the way of the state taking over those
roads and then handing them over to developers and billboard companies. Our
wilderness needs development - or else it's just, well, unspoiled
wilderness. And, who wants that?