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Comments about ‘LDS officials meet with with Soulforce group’

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Published: Tuesday, April 24 2012 8:52 p.m. MDT

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Bill in Nebraska
Maryville, MO

George: The comparision the Voice of Reason uses between Homosexuality and murder is quite justified. Next to murder, sexual sin is the most grievious. This destroys societies, families and etc. So yes his comparision is quite note worthy.

George
Bronx, NY

@bill in nebraska
after many many years of this debate both in the public forum and the court of law not one person has been able to present one valid shred of evidence to support your claim that gays and gay marriage have or will do any of the thing you claim. does any of the things you claim meaning not only is his comparison not note worthy but your claims only add to the pile of false and erroneous claims by those that appose gay marriage and gay rights.

Claudio
Springville, Ut

Bill, maybe I misunderstood, but it sounded like you just told the members of the Seventy that what they do is meaningless. Might want to rethink that seeing as they have a lot more to do with the daily running of the Church than the FOP and Q12...something Boyd K. Packer has repeatedly said is one of the accomplishments he's most proud of.

momoftoo
Albuquerque, NM

Voice of Reason, you sound reasonable to me. Keep up the good work.

Bill in Nebraska
Maryville, MO

Claudio: If that is what you read that was not my intent. However, it is quite revealing when it stated that none of the Church Leadership was there. That leadership is First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve. The Quorum of the Seventy will act and do things that are given to them on a basis by the Twelve.

George, evidently you've never studied the History of the World. Many of the decading empires through history have been destroyed from within. Many because of their own morality. The Bible and the Book of Mormon are quite clear on this. Just because some theologians and scientists try to prove otherwise, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of their wickedness. This country as a whole is still protected but as we go further down the road of immorality and the decadence of the family, yes it is opening itself to the same destruction.

Cinefan
MIAMI, FL

The Walker said: "I wonder if they ever meet with the rank and file members to see how WE feel about the Church's increasing tolerance for homosexual lifestyles."

If you are a member of the Church, then you clearly do not understand how the Church operates. It is the Church of JESUS CHRIST. He stands at the head of it. He directs the Church (members), not the other way around.

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

@Bill in Nebraska;

What you clearly don't understand that what your church thinks about same-sex marriages only applies within your church.

You and your church have no business fighting against the civil equality of same-sex couples outside your church. Your "Proclamation" applies ONLY to Mormons. Nobody else needs to follow it. Nobody.

We are not obligated to follow your beliefs in the same way that you are not obligated to follow ours, meaning that you don't need to have a same-sex marriage if you don't want one. Likewise, you have absolutely no business telling non-Mormons what they can and can not do outside the walls of your church. Period.

xscribe
Colorado Springs, CO

Thanks, Ernest. Maybe those who say the church won't change its doctrine only mean the issue o homosexuals, because the church doctrine has certainly "changed" for other issues. And I'll bet one day it will change for this issue also, but not until they are the "last church standing" so to speak.

Lagomorph
Salt Lake City, UT

Bill in NE: You failed to respond to any of the substance of my original post. Voice of Reason had claimed that the LDS were not "imfringing freedom" and were "allowing choice" vis-a-vis gays. Ironically (or incredibly) VOR maintained that liberals were the ones infringing freedom and limiting choice. I pointed out that there are churches (mainline ones, at that) that accept homosexuality and gay marriage as perfectly moral and that political eforts by LDS were preventing those churches from acting freely within their doctrine. The LDS church is perfectly within its rights to engage politically on issues it finds important, but for supporters to say that it unequivocally promoting religious freedom by doing so when it is curtailing the freedom of other churches to act according to their faith is simply incorrect.

Lagomorph
Salt Lake City, UT

Bill in NE: "Next to murder, sexual sin is the most grievious..."

Yet the game is rigged. When sin is defined as sex outside of marriage, but the opportunity for marriage is denied to some, then those people never have a chance to avoid sin. Anything they do is sin because they can never get the special exemption that marriage provides.

Ironically, by denying gays the chance to marry, defenders of "virtue" only increase the social pathologies like STD's and promiscuity that sexual behavior codes (like the concept of sin) are intended to prevent. By stigmatizing homosexuality and legally discouraging gays from forming stable, longterm, committed monogamous relationships (i.e. marriage), you are guaranteeing that gays will sneak out to the bars, bathhouses, and alleys, have multiple partners, or enter into sham hetero marriages (which are bound to fail and are unfair to the spouses). If you think homosexuality is wrong because of HIV,hepatitis, high suicide rates, or the hidden subculture, then work to create social institutions that incentivize monogamy-- in a word, support gay marriage. If you think homosexuality is wrong because of Leviticus, then I hope you never eat bacon or wear wool/cotton blends.

Cinefan
MIAMI, FL

Lagomorph, we believe homosexual acts are wrong because God, Jehovah, Jesus Christ said homosexual acts are wrong, a sin, an abomination. For those of us who have testimonies of the reality of God and His teachings, that's the end of the discussion. It was, once more, reiterated in The Family: A Proclamation to the World.

There is absolutely nothing than anyone--gay or straight--can say that makes it okay.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

Though not Mormon, I support the Mormons 100% in their right to speak out against what is wrong.

If they feel acting on gay feelings is wrong - speak up, keep up the good work Mormons!

Sneaky Jimmy
Bay Area, CA

@voice of no reason

The "church" has changed core doctrine on many occasions. Word of Wisdom, Plural marriage, priesthood eligibility to name a few, so it does happen.

Cinefan
MIAMI, FL

Sneaky Jimmy, the Word of Wisdom was not "changed" it was introduced, as was plural marriage. And plural marriage was suspended (not changed), it will be re-instituted when the people are ready to live the higher law, as was the Melchizedek priesthood. Priesthood eligibility was not changed by the "church," it was opened to all worthy males by Jesus Christ.

Homosexuality goes against the most fundamental part of the Plan of Salvation--to raise up families, e.g., father, mother, and children, all which may be led to exaltation.

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

@Cinefan;

Please explain why those who don't believe as you do must follow the dictates of your god?

Please. I thought that the Constitution granted ALL Citizens the right to worship as they would, not just the Mormons or other "Christian" religions.

You have the right to follow your Proclamation. You. Nobody else has to, or is obligated in any way by your "proclamation".

AZRods
Maricopa, AZ

Without coming to the defense of voice of reason, which I seriously doubt they need much help in that regard.
I wish springstreet and claudio would re read their own comments. claudio accuses someone for assuming the role of defending the church, then in his next comment pretends to speak for the church about it's policies for members' behavior.
I see one here trying to be civil and others trying to pick apart someone's words.
Which could be seen as looking for fault or finding offense.
The fact that we each have strong feelings on this subject in particular means that we respectfully allow another to have an opinion and not expect them to agree with us.

Freedom-In-Danger
WEST VALLEY CITY, UT

@Claudio

No one said the church should do anything different. But I do agree with Voice that if anyone should be expecting the other side to change or apologize... it shouldn't be gays expecting the church to consider changing but the other way around. After the threats, terrorist acts against the church, and yeah I'd even say libel (if you saw one of their commercials)... then there is need for many to humble themselves and apologize. The only thing anyone needs to ever do is repent and live right. I don't see the church doing anything to hurt that, so no offense but what's your problem?

Freedom-In-Danger
WEST VALLEY CITY, UT

@George

Bill in NE is right. Being that the two are sins they already are parallel. They might have very different results and one of the consequences is definitely more grievous, but if it is wrong it is wrong. I don't treat gays like murderers. But I show gays respect. I even show murderers respect. That's what it means to not judge people. The people not showing respect need to look in a mirror, cause so far all I see is people saying offensive things about a religion just for saying what it believes.

I respect your disagreement, and I mean you respect. I bet you're even a pretty swell guy, but I don't think it's offensive just to take a gander at whether something is acceptable and give your opinion about it. America is a diverse country with different beliefs. Sometimes yours won't win out in the end. Why is that such a problem for everyone? No one's rights are being taken away. Life, liberty, property... gays are already free and the church isn't trying to take that away. Its trying to encourage citizens to value what's right.

Lagomorph
Salt Lake City, UT

Cinefan: "For those of us who have testimonies of the reality of God and His teachings, that's the end of the discussion."

As RanchHand asked, what of those who do not share your testimony (a testimony that is held by a distinct minority in the US and the world)? Why is YOUR belief the only one that matters? Why should Jews, Muslims, Roman Catholics, Protestants, Pastafarians, agnostics, etc. be bound in civil law by the standards of the LDS Family Proclamation?

"Homosexuality goes against the most fundamental part of the Plan of Salvation--to raise up families..."

About 30% of gay households have children, either through previous straight marriages, artificial insemination, surrogacy, or adoption-- all methods that are routinely used by straight couples to isssue children. They are families. Would you withhold salvation from these children by preventing them from having married parents and a "real" family? That seems unspeakably cruel.

"...the Word of Wisdom was not "changed" it was introduced..."

Changed, suspended, introduced... All semantic hair-splitting and sophistry. Supporters of Romney have bent over backwards to distance his campaign (and his church) from polygamy. Are you saying they're wrong and the evangelical critics are right?

Sneaky Jimmy
Bay Area, CA

@cinefan

Wow, interesting "Spin". The truth shall set you free. Read about the various interpretations of the Word of Wisdom through church history. It changed many times. Plural marriage was "suspended"? Please read the BofM concerning marriage. Also, please explain how an African American was eligible for the priesthood prior to 1978. Lastly, if homosexuality goes against God's plan why does he allow children to be born with attraction to the same sex? Please watch "Modern Family". The gay couple seem to be doing a good job of raising up a family.

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