BYU haters rant and rave, but usually don't say anything new and at times
illogical. News for U claims "The Pac-12 will get stronger in
football and basketball because they will have the money to bring in big name
coaches and offer a lot more opportunities to their recruits." Using money
to offer more opportunities to recruits didn't work out so well for USC.
Soonerute: I am not scared about u joining the 12-pack. I just don't see
the value for the 12-pack. What did they gain from such a deal? Conference
stability? They had it. National television? They have it. Expanded recruiting?
Not really. I am at a loss. What did u bring that the 12-pack needed?
@ DuckhunterIt doesn't matter! Utah's national
championships are now Pac-12 national championships. Look at this
way Ducky, Utah and Colorado moving into a new conference is like a family
moving into a new home. The family will take all their possessions with them
from their old home to their new home. Same thing with Utah and Colorado, The
Utes and Buffaloes have moved into a new conference home and they took with them
all their national championships with them to their new conference home.
Interesting how Duckhunter looks at titles won by schools.If that is the
case, BYU should give up its claim to the 1984 national title. It no longer is a
member of the WAC. And if they join the Big 12 it won't count either.
@news for uAnd they had nothing to do with the pac previous.
@ Duckhunter No, those national championships Utah and Colorado won
in previous conferences will follow them into their new conference because
it's the school's national championships and the schools belong to the
@news for uSo the championships utah and colorado won as memebers of
other conferences the pac12 is now trying to claim as their own? Those
championships belong to other conferences, not the pac12. certainly they belong
to the schools themselves but they had nothing to do swith the pac12 when they
won them. It just makes the pac12's self proclaimed moniker even more
@ Duckhunter"That said you are correct that across the board the
pac10, not the pac12 as utah and colorado have contributed nothing to those
championships, has more national championships than any other conference and
that is an adiramable achievment".I disagree with you about Utah
and Colorado contributing nothing to those 442 national championships. If you do
some research, Colorado is contributing 22 national championships and Utah is
contributing 20 national championships. Both Utah and Colorado have won more
national championships than half of the current Pac-12 schools. Look it up! I'll agree with you that the Big 12 is currently stronger in
men's basketball and football. But that's because of lack of exposure
caused from the old Pac-10 tv deal. With the new Pac-12 tv deal kicking in this
August. The Pac-12 will get stronger in football and basketball because they
will have the money to bring in big name coaches and offer a lot more
opportunities to their recruits. I look at the Pac-12 being more competitive on
the national scale in the coming years.
@news for uThe pac12 didn't "earn" the title of
"conference of champions" LOL! It is a self proclaimed "title"
that no one but the member institutions care about. My guess is most of the
others laugh at the pretentiousness of trying to proclaim yourselves such a
thing. LOL!That said you are correct that across the board the
pac10, not the pac12 as utah and colorado have contributed nothing to those
championships, has more national championships than any other conference and
that is an adiramable achievment. As a follower of a school (BYU) that actually
has across the board excellence in its athletic programs I admire that. Of
course you being a follower of a school that has across the board mediocrity in
athletics (utah) it is something you should hope your chosen school aspires
to.But as so many of the utah "fans" here told us in the
article about BYU rugby dominating utah once again, no one really cares about
anything but football and basketball and in those two sports the Big12 is
demonstrably superior to the pac12.
Snack PACOlympus Cove, UtahSoonerUteUtah was simply a
filler to have a conference championship game. ABC/ESPN completely ignored the
Utes in their television schedule last season.------------------------------------Really? If that is true
why not pick Portland St. Idaho St. or San jose St.?Fact of the matter is
that Utah was chosen, like Colorado because they are research institutions.
Something that BYU is not. If you look at the TV ratings from last season.
It appears the public ignored BYU on ESPN. Can you say low ratings!
SoonerUteUtah was simply a filler to have a conference championship
game. ABC/ESPN completely ignored the Utes in their television schedule last
@ A1994Now your changing your position. You first said "overall,
the Big 12 is a better athletic conference than the Pac-12". Now your saying
"nobody cares about anything other than football and basketball".
I'm simply responding to what you originally wrote. The Pac-12 across the
board in athletics is a better athletic conference than the Big 12 because the
Pac-12 wins national championships. That is why they earned their title
"Conference of Champions" because they have won more national titles
than any other conference by a long shot. The numbers don't lie!
BYUfaninWashStBeing a born and raised 'Show-Me' boy I know
exactly what you are talking about.Heard today that Romney will be
the commencement speaker at Liberty University, Jerry Falwell's school.Who would imagine that a Mormon would be invited there? Wow, times are
changin'. There might be riots and protests on the campus but if Romney
gets the nomination, as is pretty much assured, who knows what will happen in
the 'Bible Belt' aka Big 12 conference. Maybe Mitt will
get the deal done!Go Mizzou!
@News For UGet serious. Nobody cares about anything other than
football and basketball. The PAC 12 was abysmal in the bowl season and had one
team in the NCAA tourney this year. With the exception of USC and Oregon
football (and Stanford every 10 years) it is a severely over-rated conference
and the poster child of how big money doesn't necessarily mean a good show.
@ A1994"I know it would be a hard pill for some Ute fans to
swallow because, overall, the Big 12 is a better athletic conference than the
PAC 12".National Championships:Pac-12 442Big
12 173Enough Said!The Pac-12 "Conference of
Champions" is light years ahead of the Big 12 and it's not even close.
Why are fellow BYU fans saying Ute fans don't want BYU to join the Big
12?What's keeping BYU from joining a BCS conference is BYU itself.
sammyg,Have to agree with you ... that BYU brand of mediocrity is no
worse than some teams in BcS conferences. However, with the Big12,
shouldn't underestimate the LDS component I mentioned. There is reason why
Romney lost Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Iowa, and would lose Texas too, if it
were still a race. Believe it or not, for large segment of midwest &
southern population, many of those same attitudes carry over, even into
football. BYU football mediocrity and LDS is not winning combination in that
area. It is what it is. I once served there, and know something whereof I speak.
Being an alum of both Utah and BYU, I'd like to see BYU go to the Big 12.
Will only happen if the other Big 12 schools see it in their interest to expand
and without question, BYU is a leading candidate but so are other current
"BCS" schools who the Big 12 would also consider and very likely
consider ahead of BYU.I have to agree with Duckhunter that Utah fans
are more interested it seems in keeping BYU as an indy than BYU fans are as it
provides Ute fan a sense of superiority over their in-state brethren.
WACPaddingOurSchedulePlease clarify how BYU is over rated decade
after decade in all other sports outside of football...Seeing how
ALL other sports actually play in playoffs and a champion is crowned. Please
enlighten us on how all those national championships, conference championships,
individual awards, and rankings are all over rated.u fans take the
cake for lack of humility.u win two bowl games and suddenly
you're the anchor of the conference of champions, even though you
can't even compete in all but gymnastics. You're a joke in your own
conference an you don;t even know it.Talk about over rated.The funniest thing about all the u fans commenting is that they want so badly
for BYU to not get invited, that they miss the point entirely.BYU is
BYU. They don't care what you think. They are the ones talking with
whoever, and the discussion doesn't include u fans whose sole purpose it is
to wish BYU to fail.That's like Toyota listening to Government
Motors on whether or not to start selling cars in China. BYU seems to be just
fine regardless of what you "think."
DuckhunterHighland, UT@sooneruteWell since I don't
want BYU to join the Big12 I'm not really the guy to ask but of course BYU
would bring plenty of attractive attributes with them if they did get an invite.
Obviously a top 25 overall athletic program, well funded, competitive in every
single sport they participate in, a great history in pretty much every sport
they sponsor, some of the best facilities of any school in the entire NCAA, A
large dedicated fan base that doesn't just span the country, it spans the
globe, great academics, conservative values which is something the Big12 matches
more closely than any other conference. Then of course a tv station and
broadcast facility second to none.=========================Overated. Decade after decade.If everything about BYU is so great as you
say, every major conference in the country would line up to invite them.
I grew up watching LaVell Edwards brand of BYU football. Those teams were much
more on the national scene than today's BYU football. I cringe when I hear
BYU fans talk about national championships and BCS respect. BYU needs to start
winning big games again. Beating Ole Miss by one isn't going to get the
job done.Having said that, BYU absolutely belongs in a major
conference and the Big 12 would be a great fit. BYU has a huge fan base and to
say they bring nothing to the table is ridiculous. I know it would be a hard
pill for some Ute fans to swallow because, overall, the Big 12 is a better
athletic conference than the PAC 12. It would be great for all
football fans in the state to have both schools in major conferences. Can you
imagine having USC in Salt Lake on the same day that OU is in Provo? What real
college football fan could object to that?
ArticleReader,I like that idea in general. I would love to see
football more independent across the country. But I think you can count out any
Big Ten schools. Conference affiliation brings along with it billions of
dollars in research monies through the CIC. No college president will ever want
out of that.
Do people really believe BYU will bring nothing to the conference. BYU would
bring one of the largest schools in the conference (3rd), biggest stadiums
(3rd), a larger fan base than most (not possible to accurately quantify, but
certainly top half of the conference), and they wouldn't take away from the
current recruiting pool (important for current school already fighting over
Texas). All of these things turn into TV attraction, and the more games you can
stage with national interest, the higher your tv contract can be. To suggest,
as SoonerUte does, that they're perfectly content on TV dollars is
ridiculous. They're always looking for a way to get more dollars.Last time negotiations happened, I feel the timing was just bad. BYU was
reluctant to give up its TV deals for a conference that looked as if it might
explode at any moment. They hadn't really even tried the independent thing
SammyG, that is what a lot of fans within the BCS conferences get fooled by....
We have a license to stink worse than a sewer plant because we play against
stiffer competition..... I'm sorry but there is no excuse for losing
tradition..... And I still say investigate the U for possible point shaving
against Colorado..... They didn't want the win because dang it on september
17th they annihilated the Cougs.
Personally, I still think BYU should reach out to a number of top football
programs and try to form some sort of Independants league. All of the schools
can play whoever they choose in football, but then the rest of their sports are
in the same conference for Basketball and the "Olympic" sports. If BYU could somehow convince Texas to join them in this other schools
would follow, ND, USC, Boise St, and maybe Ohio St. If these schools took the
leap, others would follow. Talk about major realignment.
BYUfaninWashStThe good 'ol boys club BCS conferences provide a
safe haven for an abundance of mediocre and worse programs. Why not BYU?BYU consistently ranks above mediocrity in many sports. If you want an
example of BCS mediocrity look no further than a local school that had a 4-5
conference record in football and a miserable basketball season.How
do you 'write off' and dismiss the BYU national rankings and NCAA
tournament invites?BYUs brand of 'mediocrity' is far
better than a lot of BcS / 'prestigious' programs.
BYU would need to prove they belong, with consistent winning play against worthy
competition, on the field. They have not accomplished that for years. BYU play
is consistently mediocre. That is the hard truth. Big 12 does not want mediocre
Duckhunter you are funny!What is unique about being independent is nothing
as you claim. If it was so great everyone would be leaving conferences to do it.
Oklahoma, Texas, Miami, Florida St. Boston College, USC, Oregon, Alabama, LSU
and others are all capable. Navy was independent and they just joined the Big
BYU needs to first be invited, which is not a given by any means. The next thing
would be that they will probably have to give up their television contract with
ESPN, something they may not want to do. I have my doubts that either thing will
happen but we will see.
@wallbangerRemember, I am the balance. But to answer your question I
have wanted BYU to go independent for a long time. They are unique and one of
only a very few schools that could possibly do it. I never liked having to cater
to the bottom feeders of the wac and the mtn west, and yes that included utah
for a long time. They were really just dead weight propped up mostly by BYU. I love the idea of traveling around the country and attending games in
new places against new schools. Over the next 4-5 yars I will be attending games
in the south, midwest, eastcoast, westcoast and the mtn west.Of
course you won't believe it, you only see things through your own biases
and those are dictated by the circumstance of the school you follow. It is not
something you can even understand because your school couldn't do it, they
aren't capable of it. So because they couldn't do it in order for you
to prop up your fragile ego you have to try and pretend no one should like it
and it can only fail. Pathetic.
@sooneruteWell since I don't want BYU to join the Big12
I'm not really the guy to ask but of course BYU would bring plenty of
attractive attributes with them if they did get an invite. Obviously a top 25
overall athletic program, well funded, competitive in every single sport they
participate in, a great history in pretty much every sport they sponsor, some of
the best facilities of any school in the entire NCAA, A large dedicated fan base
that doesn't just span the country, it spans the globe, great academics,
conservative values which is something the Big12 matches more closely than any
other conference. Then of course a tv station and broadcast facility second to
none.Frankly pretty much anyone looking at it through the fish eyed lense
of hate, such as yourself and most other utah "fans", can see it. But as
I said I like independence, I have been a proponent of it for many, many years.
I prefer to give it time to see how it works out. BYU doesn't have to have
a conference, that makes them unique and I like that.
Won't be any more expansion until the BCS gets a playoff developed. The
Big12 will hold as is. The ESPN blog was only talking about the Big12 raiding
the ACC. BYU's best option may be a new conference formed from the best of
CUSA, MWC, and WAC.
BYU DeekSpanish Fork, UTBYU to the Big12 is pretty much a done
deal. The presidents have already voted on it. However, the Big12 is currently
searching for a new commissioner and baseball season is roaring. The Big12 is
possibly the best baseball conference in the nation,.....----I think The Pac 12 SEC and ACC would have something to say about that.
The Big 12 only has two teams in the top 25.
Why Jeff Call said something about BYU and that ESPN Blog said nothing about us.
It was about wheather big 12 should go 11 or 12 team league or stay at 10? If
they do expand and take BYU which would be great, but if they don't expand
or don't take BYU - so what!
Really "BYU Deek"? The Big 12 is holding off on announcing conference
expansion because "baseball season is roaring"? That is classic!
DesNews, enough already. BYU is not in the Big 12's radar--nor are they
being looked at by any other major conference. They would have been invited by
now. They weren't. BYU's future will be in a football
conference equivalent to the WCC for other sports.Quit trying to
make news when there isn't any.
BYU to the Big12 is pretty much a done deal. The presidents have already voted
on it. However, the Big12 is currently searching for a new commissioner and
baseball season is roaring. The Big12 is possibly the best baseball conference
in the nation, and many Big12 schools actually pull a profit from it. This is
why they haven't yet announced that BYU and Louisville will be joining for
the 2013-2014 school year. This is another reason that the WCC added Pacific. I
mean, come on, USD as a travel partner? Anyway, this isn't
speculation, many people, including reporters that cover the Big12 believe this.
Is this a for sure thing? Nothing is fail proof, but as of right now i'd
say 85% done. Anyone who follows GSwaim on twitter has access to quite a few
insiders.When Holmoe says nothing is imminent he is talking about
the next month. Once the Big12 hires a new commish the talks will heat up again.
Ducky "Hmmm....more than half the comments and all
negative."Yeah, you never troll Utah boards with any negativity. More
than half the comments on any Utah board are all from you, with negativity. And
please explain to us why you like being Indy over conference affiliation. I for
one would like to see BYU join the Big 12, but it's a long shot and
probably won't happen.
Duckhunter, since you like "fan" in quotations, mark me down as Big 12
"fan".I am not scared about BYU joining the Big 12. I just
don't see the value for the Big 12.What do they gain from such a
deal? Conference stability? They have it now. National television? They have
it. Expanded recruiting? Not really. I am at a loss. What could BYU bring
that the Big 12 needs?As a Big 12 fan, it appears to me that BYU
fans are only interested in the Big 12 because they didn't get selected by
the PAC 12. Who wants to be a second choice? "Will you take me to prom? I
wanted to go with someone else, but they didn't ask me." Not
attractive.I agree with you that independence is best for BYU. They
can scheduled a couple of name teams, then fill out the schedule against teams
that allow them to reach a 10 win season. A 10 win season gives the program
visibility that the church wants.
All of the insecurity and arrogance flowing from 'the hill' is
laughable. Duckhunter, you are spot on... as usual.
I truly believe that the Marketing Department at BYU hypes up the program every
Spring and Fall for ticket sales. Included in this hype is talk of conference
participation, national championship or BCS bowling participation, etc, all to
sell tickets.It is getting old. I wish that BYU would do there talk
on the field and beat top teams. They struggled against Florida, TCU, and other
programs. But even after BYU begins beating those teams consistently, I would
still not favor heavy marketing. Let the talk be on the field.
Let's seepatriot - utah "fan"robin - utah
"fan"wacpadding - utah "fan" who also goes by a bunch of
other screen namesouisc - utah "fan"ares - utah
"fan"henry drummond - utah "fan"soonerute - utah
"fan"ernest t bass - utah "fan"Hmmm....more
than half the comments and all negative. What are you all so scared of? Oh
that's right, utah being in the pac12 and BYU being an independent is all
you have to give yourselves a false sense of superiority. Frankly I like
independence but of course none of you know anything about any of this. I loved cowardly robins claim that a BIG12 official called the BYU
attorney "a peice of work". False, it was the big easts not the
BIG12's and BYU turned down the big east. But whatever
BYU's future holds one thing we can all count on is that it is more
important to these utah "fans" than utah's is. LOL!
henry"It doesn't take much to get these BYU forums to light up
with news that an invitation is at hand."It doesn't take much for
the "insecure" to start with their rants about how nothing good will
happen for BYU either. They are soooo afraid something good will happen. Then
they won't be so special anymore.
We are BYU. The Big 12 should have allowed us to dictate the terms. They really
messed up when they walked away from our ESPN deal. ESPN will do anything to
Let's not notice that BYU wasn't mentioned in the article with West
Virginia AD Luck...BYU is on a list of candidates put together by
the Big 12 expansion committee. The Big 12 wanted to be better prepared IF they
decide to expand. That is a big IF.Oklahoma and Texas are quite
happy with the 10 team format. That allows them to play everyone in the league,
and eliminates the conference championship game which more often than not has
eliminated the Big 12 from BCS games. They are about to sign a television deal
that will pay each member $20 million per year. As the ESPN poll question page
notes "Selling expansion to the league's 10 members won't go over
all that well if the league can't prove that the annual conference revenue
paychecks won't get significant cuts."BYU is on the list
under the idea that they could join without much trouble (no conference exit
fees). Other than that, BYU has nothing to offer the Big 12. BYUtv is the
biggest hurdle. BYU would have to sign over six years of television rights.
I am the biggest BYU fan around but even I have to say...Are we STILL talking
about this stuff?
I had to laugh at this. It doesn't take much to get these BYU forums to
light up with news that an invitation is at hand.
"Of course, BYU is considered a prime candidate to join the Big 12 should it
decide to add more members"The more the DN sports writers write
stuff like this, perhaps the more they may actually believe it themselves. So,
the obvious responses, and even coming from a Cougs fan, is "says who?"
and "based on what?"This sports writer is trying to pull a
rabbit out of his hat w/ this. Yes, I'm a Cougs fan, but look at the entire
Cougs program from afar. I like not being so close to Happy Valley. As long as
BYU is "connected at the hip" w/ ESPN on the current contract that
provides the Cougs all the "national recognition" they like,
they're not going anywhere.The next time I read about the Cougs
"possibly" considering another conference, I'd actually like to see
the article linked to credible sources-- not linked to the fishing expedition in
Slow day to bring this up again. The Big 12 has always said great things about
BYU and their interest is still solid. However, it is more complex than saying,
"Hey we will expand". I know that's hard for some (read red) fans
to comprehend but those are the facts. Utah fans should be more
worried why their school is advertising for basketball teams that have na rpi of
Give it up already BYU. You already showed that you are "too good" and
should be treated like Gods in the football world.Well, reality
check.Nobody wants you.Give it up and start small. Maybe
you could get back into the WAC (officially, I mean) or the MWC and build
yourself up again. Stop whining.
Reading these comments is like listening the Presidential pundits...its all hot
air and speculation...
West Virginia is talking like my boss does--grow and expand, even though we
can't even keep our foundation in tact.
Its really up to Texas if BYU joins or not. They own the Big 12.
Since it will never happen...I'm sure "patriot's" comments
have gone directly to decision makers in the Big 12 and at BYU. The result is
that BYU has quit considering moving to a conference and the Big 12 has shifted
its focus to Idaho and Idaho State for expansion.
You may be right Patriot, but we can still dream. If the BIG 12 wants to expand,
frankly, I don't know who would be more appealing than BYU. Maybe BYU and
the BIG 12 will have to compromise a bit. One thing for sure, this independence
thing is not going to work out very well. I hope BYU can find a home.
I love this quote from the article:"Of course, BYU is considered
a prime candidate to join the Big 12 should it decide to add more
members."What makes the author think that BYU is a "prime
candidate" for Big 12 expansion? Did you forget that BYU already had a
chance to join the Big 12 and blew it? Did you forget how BYU clung to their
piddly ESPN deal throughout negotiations like a little kid hanging onto a
lollipop while being offered an entire cake? Did you forget that a member of
the Big 12's expansion committee called BYU's attorney "a real
piece of work"? I guess not.And I love how the author prefaces
his erroneous statement with "of course", like we all know that BYU is
clearly the frontrunner. Oh, the arrogance of that statement!
it will never happen...adding BYU to the Big12 that is. TCU already took
BYU's place in the BIG 12. I really don't think anyone is interested
in the Y will their sunday play ban and the restrictions the Y on TV contracts
etc... BYU fans got their hopes dashed a year ago with the BIG 12 so I think
this is a dead issue. BYU is stuck as an independent for the foreseeable
future.BYU's new rival's will be Idaho and Idaho State going