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Sen. Orrin Hatch, Gov. Gary Herbert convention races too close to call

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  • Eric Greene Holladay, UT
    April 18, 2012 1:38 p.m.

    Time to bring Hatch home.

    His voting record, however defended, has brought enough damage to this country.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    April 18, 2012 12:27 p.m.

    Dear Lost in DC:

    P.S. Quite honestly, I don't really know why these guys keep running when they get to be Hatch's age. You'd think they be reach the point when it's time to pass the baton. Unfortunately, I think a lot of these guys think they're indispensible. They're NOT. But, for the sake of our state, I have to support Hatch. I'm not against the other candidates. But, I just know how much power, prestige, respect and status Hatch has. These other guys would start at the bottom and we'd be left with very little power in the Senate. It would be MANY years before they could be as effective as Hatch is.

    If we wait six years, at least Lee would have a chance to build up a little more seniority and become a little more effective. Currently, his staff is still trying to figure out how to run an office. By the time we get a new guy six years from now, maybe Lee will have it together. Then we might have a shot at getting more accomplished.

    That's why I have to support Hatch.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    April 18, 2012 12:19 p.m.

    Dear Lost in DC:

    My comment about a "joke" was not directed at you. It was directed at another poster. I believe you do understand seniority and how things work in Washington because I think you have experience there just as I do. Senator Hatch is NOT perfect. And I would NEVER want to be a member of his staff (you may know what I mean by that). But, he has a 100% score with The American Conservative Union and has done much good for the state. He was a PERSONAL friend of Ted Kennedy but opposed him almost every day in committee and on the floor of the Senate--politically, they were completely opposite. You must know that chairmanship of a powerful committee gives him the ability to pass legislation and negotiate all kinds of things with other powerful chairmen--not to mention his ability to get things accomplished for the state within the executive branch and agencies.

    I don't always agreee with Senator Hatch. But if you agree with your representative 80% of the time, you've got a good thing going. That's I'm supporting him.

  • James FFS Bountiful, UT
    April 18, 2012 11:09 a.m.

    I am not surprised that Hatch and Herbert are leading the way. When I went to my caucus night that seemed to be the trend. I am really happy to see that Chris Stewart is doing so well. I have followed him throughout his campaign and he is the the right choice to represent my district. For the first time in many years I am very excited about having someone represent me that really loves America and believes/desires in a bright future for me and my family. I don't see that same passion in the other candidates. I haven't spoken to all the candidates but the ones I have listened to talk as if they are in a reality show competition. I want someone who really understands that we live in the greatest country in the world. Chris Stewart seems to have that same belief as me.

  • Wasatch Al South Jordan, UT
    April 18, 2012 11:04 a.m.

    Morgan Philpot is becoming the new Merrill Cook.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    April 18, 2012 10:30 a.m.

    Cats,
    I do not view seniority as a joke.

    It is a dual edged sword. Ted Kennedy had more seniority than hatch. Did that advance the conservative cause (and thus the nation)? No, it did not.

    Hatch voted for kennedy instead of his constituents on at least one occassion. He co-sponsored controversial, moderate to liberal bills when not facing re-election, then opposed them when facing re-election. He appears to consider his constituents only when facing re-election. He has said if re-elected, the next term will be his last, so he will no longer have to answer to his constituents.

    Given his vote for kennedy and his pattern of disregarding his constituents unless facing re-election, I do not TRUST him with his seniority. If he uses his seniority to vote liberally, his seniority will damage us.

  • bikeboy Boise, ID
    April 18, 2012 10:09 a.m.

    Dear Utah Republicans:

    The ONLY possible reason to send Hatch back for another try is because of his seniority in the Senate. You certainly wouldn't send him back because of his consistent and dependable [fiscal] conservatism. He talke the talk in an election year, and hopes the folks back home don't pay too much attention.

    PLEASE - do a favor for conservatives in the other 49 states, and replace your career politician with a good conservative representative, who will be a little more reluctant to spend the dollars of taxpayers' great-grandkids. Thank you!

  • Utah_1 Salt Lake City, UT
    April 18, 2012 9:19 a.m.

    Last Utah General Legislative Session for 2011, I remember seeing bill after bill sponsored by Sen. Dan Liljenquist pass the house.

    I was amazed at the respect he and the bills had. I was amazed at how both republicans and democrats voted for them.

    For example, his 2011 SB 180 Medicaid Reform bill passed both houses with no votes against it from either party and was signed by the Governor.

    With at least 7 bills, both the house and senate, both republicans and democrats all voted for the reforms Senator Dan Liljenquist proposed. 9 of his bills were signed by the Governor.

    We need that in Washington DC. These are the same areas that are bankrupting our nation. Again, we need Dan Liljenquist in Washington DC. Yes, we have a US Senator with 35 years of seniority, but remember that in 2011, Senator Dan Liljenquist was still in his first 4 year term. He did it without seniority. He has been recognized nationally for this, but not so much in his own state.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    April 18, 2012 8:57 a.m.

    I would LOVE to see Mia Love make it.

    And....anyone who thinks seniority is a "joke" clearly has no understanding of how things work in the U.S. Senate and Washington in general. If Hatch is replaced, we'll have one guy who has two years experience and one guy who is completely new--two guys at the bottom of the totem pole with almost no power to do anything for Utah. Mike Lee is a good guy, but it will be many years before he has the status and respect that Hatch has, IF EVER.

    Senator Hatch is a highly respected man in Washington and, as a powerful chairman, will be in a position to do many important things for the state. We need to retain him as long as he is willing to serve.

  • NeilT Clearfield, UT
    April 18, 2012 8:45 a.m.

    Hunt. I never said I supported illegal immigration. A mass deportation is not the solution. Logistically impossible. I support other solutions.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    April 18, 2012 7:56 a.m.

    I sent an e-mail to the delegates from my precinct asking that they consider the input from members of the precinct when voting in the convention. I suggested if the input was not heavily in favor of one candidate over the other that they consider splitting their votes; if the input was solidly behind hatch, both should vote for him.

    As candidates for delegate, both indicated an inclination for hatch; one said he would listen to input from precinct members. When I contacted him and made the above suggestion, he responded that since both had indicated they favored hatch and were elected, he considered that as all the input he needed from the precinct.

    The weakness with that argument is we do not know the tallies from the caucus. If the pro-hatch garnered 52% and the anti-hatch 48%, the precinct would not be as solidly behind hatch as this delegate believed. Were the tallies 68% hatch and 32% opposed, I could more readily accept his response.

    Thus I would prefer a primary where my vote counts to the non-committal caucus system.

  • Fred33 KAYSVILLE, UT
    April 18, 2012 6:56 a.m.

    I went to my precint caucus meeting. The majority of the people supported Hatch and Herbert. The only dissenting voices were from people that supported tea party candidates. I would say the polling reported here represents my voting precint very well.

  • Hunt Spanish Fork, UT
    April 18, 2012 12:24 a.m.

    @NeilT

    Last time I checked my facts, a drop in illegal immigration still doesn't make it legal. The issue isn't about numbers, its about the act of illegally immigrating, the felonies that go along with illegally obtaining a job, and the rewarding of the behavior by those who seek to benefit from it.

  • WestGranger West Valley City, Utah
    April 17, 2012 11:54 p.m.

    If a reasonable conservative like Hatch is kicked out just when he is in a position to do much good in the Senate it is a sad statement of the harmful unrealistic expectations of what a rookie Senator could do. What a crucial blow to the Republican party by the ideologues of the republican far right wing. They have short memories of what Hatch did to stand up for conservative vales in classic battles that kept our country from sinking into bankruptcy a long time ago. It took compromise. Today hardline fall into the liberal stereotypes of conservatives as being rigid, merciless with a hardline stance that doesn't take int account that we actually do need be compassionate towards other human beings without becoming "bleeding heart liberals" who wildly overspend.

  • OneAmerican Idaho Falls, ID
    April 17, 2012 11:39 p.m.

    Please Utah, do Senator Hatch a favor (and the rest of us) and bring him home.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    April 17, 2012 9:23 p.m.

    Whom do we want to represent the State of Utah?

    Do we want someone who tells us, every six years, that THIS TIME, he will actually represent the State of Utah, or do we want to continue to elect someone who has voted to take away our liberties?

    Senator Hatch has learned that the people of Utah are too lazy to read about his voting record. He has learned that all they do is listen to his well-scripted advertisements. He has learned that his money makes a difference and that honesty, integrity, and performing the duties of a Senator mean nothing.

    He will continue to tell us that THIS TIME, he will make a difference. He will continue to ignore the fact that ALL of his previous terms were failures. He will continue to ignore the fact that he was more aligned with Senator Kennedy than he was with the principles that made us a free people.

    If you want the government to lock up anyone without telling them why they are being locked up, if you want to keep them from having an attorney or a trial, then vote for Mr. Hatch. He is YOUR man.

  • I M LDS 2 Provo, UT
    April 17, 2012 9:16 p.m.

    I like Liljenquist instead of Hatch.

    I like Herbert over his unqualified and unimpressive rivals.

    Shurtleff is a complete joke (nominating himself for President of the University of Utah? Seriously?)

    Winder has no place in public office until he can sort out his own identity and ethical values. And Mia Love is a solid candidate.

    I think Bennett would have been better than Lee.

    Civility regarding immigration is one thing. But amnesty in any form is completely unacceptable no matter how civil or uncivil the debate gets.

    That's how I see it, and I'm sticking with it.

  • NeilT Clearfield, UT
    April 17, 2012 8:59 p.m.

    Such vitriol directed at Senator Hatch. Sorry Tea Partiers the people are on to your tactics. The tea party is over. It's time to return to mainstream conservatism. Unlike Senator Benett Hatch will survive. Maybe face a primary but he will survive. Just like Senator Bennett would have won over Lee if the people were given the choice to vote in a primary election. As far as the flood of illegal's check your facts. Illegal immigration has dropped drastically. I support the Utah compact, Atty Gen Shurtleff, Chief Burbank and the LDS Church's effort to bring civility back to the immigration debate. I am also supporting Peter Cook for Governor and would vote for Matheson if I had the opportunity.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    April 17, 2012 8:27 p.m.

    Are we so illiterate that we can't read? Are we so uneducated that we can't comprehend?

    Senator Hatch is a disgrace to the State of Utah. He has made promises that he has not even attempted to keep. He has openly voted to violate our liberties while sitting as one of 100 Senators. Anyone who votes for him in the nominating convention is violating their duty to help preserve our Constitution.

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    April 17, 2012 7:09 p.m.

    I am hoping Love makes it in for the Republicans. She is a class act.

    Wimmer on the other hand scares me. His total disregard for minorities when suggesting pairing Browning with MLK Day never sat right with me. It is a shame this man could actually represent Utah.

  • RagnarL4 Kaysville, UT
    April 17, 2012 6:47 p.m.

    Well, 7 of the nine commenters so far are AGAINST Hatch and all nine commenters seem to want a primary. Add me, that's 8 against Hatch and 10 for a primary. It does make one wonder who is getting delegate assignments (the retired folks who had time to attend?) Let's have a primary. I couldn't make it to a caucus, but I'd like my say in the booth.

  • DavisMan Clearfield, UT
    April 17, 2012 4:47 p.m.

    Why would anyone think the delegates would vote out Hatch. Hatch has been a waste of space in Washington since the day the unthinking people of Utah elected him. He is just like all the rest, if you send me back I'll do something this time around. Kick him to the curb and let him see what "his economy thinking has done for America". He can't even grasp simple math "you can't pay your debts by cutting your income.

  • stevo123 slc, ut
    April 17, 2012 4:46 p.m.

    It is good to see Mia Love out polling Carl Wimmer. After his vote on HB477, his big hug for Rep Kevin Garn, And his unsavory connection with the "free capitalist " I feel Mia is much more qualified to lead.

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    April 17, 2012 4:41 p.m.

    If they meet the requirements of the Republican party than they should be on the ballot for an all-republican primary.

    Delegates fixing the primary election is not what elections should be about.

    What, are you scared the republicans will vote for them?

  • IdahoStranger NEWDALE, ID
    April 17, 2012 4:36 p.m.

    Years ago as a Utah resident I voted for and supported Hatch. But I began to have my
    doubts after having a short talk with him about defending our borders and I was amazed at the excuses he came up with for not doing so.
    Since Senator Bennett was dumped at the last convention, I have watched Hatch's votes and
    I see no improvement. He is at 70% in the last Freedom Index for voting in step with the Constitution and while that is a lot better than too many others, it will not restore our
    lost freedoms nor bring us back to following the Constitution.
    We must do better!
    We are told to vote for good men and honest men, but if they make "unwise" political decisions, then they will not keep us free.
    I read Hatch's comments at Cleon Skousen's funeral where he mentioned that Skousen repeatedly asked him - "Why did you vote that way?" and Hatch mentioned the same in his biography when Ezra Taft Benson asked him the same question. Going along to get along just like Santorum - being part of the team.
    Its time to change the team!

  • danaslc Kearns, UT
    April 17, 2012 4:15 p.m.

    I am surprised this article was about avoiding the primary. I thought it would be about the chances of getting on the ticket for a primary. Isn't that the real worry?

  • 1conservative WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    April 17, 2012 4:10 p.m.

    Illegal immigration costs Utah taxpayers approx. 400million per year.

    Gov. Herbert has had numerous chances to help curtail the flood of illegal immigrants.

    Instead, he votes for amnesty provisions.

    WHY would ANY (legal)taxpayer vote to let him keep his job?

    As far as Hatch goes; the ONLY thing he can point to as a reason to vote for him is his seniority.
    That issue was OVERUSED 3 terms ago. Now its just silly.

    Delegates: PLEASE try to find alternatives to these two. Utah deserves better!

  • sg newhall, CA
    April 17, 2012 4:08 p.m.

    I hope that the delegates will open their eyes and minds to the fact that Hatch is done. I watched the Dixie College debate last night online and I wasn't impressed with Hatch at all. He came across as 'begging' for a last term. Folks, it you give Hatch what he wants, not what he deserves, then you have just elected a lame duck senator who can do whatever he wants without any reprecussions. Frankly, it makes me sick to think that he will have a better retirement package then any of us when it's all said and done. For the good of the state of Utah don't give Hatch the required 60% to avoid a primary. He looked and sounded tired and old. The problem today is that Congress has created the atmosphere for career politicians. It's all about seniority and clout. Really? Too bad. Let's change this process. Term limits so that no longer is the country beholden to career politicians who make laws based on seniority. It is time to vote Hatch out and sent him home. Let sit at home to write poetry and songs no one cares about.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    April 17, 2012 3:58 p.m.

    All I ask for is a chance to vote yea or nay on Hatch in a primary election. Hopefully the delegates will send the matter to a primary

  • Hunt Spanish Fork, UT
    April 17, 2012 3:27 p.m.

    Utah will be sitting in a much better place the day that Hatch and Herbert are no longer in office.

    Hatch is a typical politician who on one hand championed a balanced budget amendment while on the other hand voted for unpaid increases to Medicaid. His defense? The bill didn't cost as much as predicted? So instead of 23 billion more in debt its only 17 billion more. Thanks Hatch. We cannot afford to send leaders to Washington who seek to mislead by speaking out of both sides of the mouths.

    Herbert allowed HB116 to pass without a veto, an unconstitutional bill that rewards illegal behavior at the expense of tax paying Utah citizens. And in a very shady move he paid off a company who was threatening to bring a lawsuit against him over the unfair bidding process related to the I-15 project. The pay off was to the tune of around 14 million. That's tax payer dollars folks. How can we forget or give a pass to these failures in leadership and honest governance.