BHO will use others to voice his feels and bigoted thoughts...the Mo's are
going to be attacked by the "progressive" "open minded"
"anything goes" liberals and will throw the kitchen sink at the
Romney's, proving once again, they are NOT "progressive" "open
minded.”: This on-slaunt will prove to be ineffective because, the
majority of the people will see right through this phony and will have pulled
the curtain back...fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me...the
American people are on to the shenanigans of BHO and the liberals in
Superb post for the most part. O'Donnell appears to be a mean-spirited
partisan, bent on lying to obtain political advantage. These post will be for
naught until they sound in HIS ear and impair HIS vision.
@Only: It's easy to say he's wrong, but nobody has offered conclusive
evidence either way. Therefore, at best, all you can truthfully say is you
think or believe he is wrong (as do I). As I said above, everybody is speaking
out of school and just because O 'Donnell does it, doesn't make it
appropriate. If somebody has some definitive evidence, let's
O'Donnell is the worse kind of Bigot.. the one who feels he is justified
and that his "opinion" is the only one with any substantial measure of
truth. This time however is 100% wrong.
To NeilT and others: marrying young girls was not a custom in the 1800's.
For example the U.S. census for 1890 lists the average age for a female at first
marriage at 22.
The sad part is that no matter how off-base and fanciful his remarks are, a few
people will not know that his remarks were unfactual and without substance. All
they will remember is "mormon = negative feeling". Nehor and
Korihor are good examples of men who used their craftiness and eloquence to
persuade people away from Christ - we'll see how well Mr. Lawrence
O'Donnellhor fares for his words and intentions.... or maybe he'll
pull a Zeezrom and find peace... we'll see.
Before you eviscerate MSNBC, the Obama campaign, the Democratic party, liberals
in general, etc. over O'Donnell's remarks, watch the video by fellow
MSNBC anchor Melissa Harris-Perry called "Don't dislike Mitt because
he's Mormon." (I would include a link to it, but the Deseret News
comment box won't let me, so you'll have to Google it.) It's a
very good defense of the church, while still not supporting Romney specifically.
Nobody seems to know the real story regarding Joseph Smith's life (who he
married, etc.). Even the "Fair" site seems like a lot of speculation
and hearsay. So since nobody knows the real facts, I am skeptical regarding all
of your conclusions above. In summary, you all claim L.O'Donnell (who just
seems like another R. Limbaugh to me) is wrong, but don't offer any
convincing evidence yourselves. The fact is, many facets of Joseph Smith's
life have been "deemphasized" or are not known.
Does anyone watch msnbc or even O'Donnel anymore?There are soo
many other independent sources of news, which these networks cannot compete
with. Especially when they are pushing their own political agendas and sway
public opinion. msnbc owned by GE is pushing "green" very hard. The CEO
of msnbc is on baracks staff, and his company is benefiting by baracks push to
force everyone to buy "green" GE products. Nice full circle.Why doesn't Odonnel discuss that issue?Where is
Odonnel's evidence on Joseph Smith? Reading peoples opinions and
regurgitating them doesn't make it a fact. Where is his hard evidence? So
much for innocent until proven guilty in this country. In some countries 2 men
can accuse a woman for idolatry after raping her, and she is put to death. Is
that the path we want to be on? We just need a few accusers to call you a witch,
and then off to burning that person at the stake. Isn't that why we have
@cpafredi applaud your attitude. continue to seek out the truth,
you are on the right track!!!
@cpafredBecause the founder of your religion isn't Joseph
Smith, it's Jesus Christ. Even early missionaries discussed Joseph Smith
very little, if at all with members and potential converts.The
message of the gospel is about the life of Christ, His ministry and message.
God uses the weak and meek to bring forth his message, but it is never about the
messenger. Man = fallible. God = infallible. However if
you are interested in learning about Joseph Smith, the person who restored the
Gospel of JESUS CHRIST, feel free to check out resources that are accurate.
The LDS church needs to sue MSNBC for millions of dollars maybe even
billions,for allowing O Donell to say such slanderous things unless they
fire O Donell it has already been proven that NBC full of lying snakes and all
this is going to do is make people trust them even less, i say BOYCOTT NBC
and COMCAST which owns NBC until something is done about these slanderous
Article quote: "Now part of Romney's religion problem is that he's
a part of a new religion. Established religions like Judaism, which is about
4,000 years old, and Christianity, which is about 2,000 years old, don't
easily warm up to new religions like Romney's, which is only 182 years old.
Mormonism was created by a guy in upstate New York in 1830 when he got caught
having sex with the maid and explained to his wife that God told him to do it.
Forty-eight wives later, Joseph Smith's lifestyle was completely sanctified
in the religion he invented to go with it. Which Mitt Romney says he
believes."Me: Bwah! Hah! Hah! Hah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I've heard a lot of stupid comments about my religion, but none
like the whopper that was.2 questions:1) Has this
knucklehead apologized yet?2) Is there any anti-Mormon out there who
will publicly admit they believe this guy's nonsense?How long,
Lord, how long?............
Religious restrictions aside for a moment, a society that allows men to marry is
in no position take the moral high-ground against a man who has more than one
consenting wife who is of legal age. Past or present.
Re Really?"few years back when it became indisputable that
Joseph Smith had multiple wives, the conversation switched from denial to the
level of intimacy? Are you serious? Come on, true believers, just own it! Your
founder and first prophet had multiple wives with whom he had sex. Embrace it,
it's true. Deny it and you look foolish"It is puzzling that
with so many wives that Joseph had there is no evidence of him fathering any
children except the ones from his first wife Emma. If he were having sex with
the other wives you would think that at least one of them would have had a child
Silas Brill. True many early church leaders may have married young girls. So.
My understanding is that was a common practice in those days. I have no doubt
many not of the lDS faith married young girls. That was not illegal in those
days. If I am wrong please correct me.To change the subject. I
have never heard Romney questions Obama's religious faith or validity of
his birth certificate. His main focus has been Obama's ineptness on
economic issues. Perhaps that explains their lack of enthuisiasm for his
candidacy. I support Romney. Religion is divisive. Who can argue that we need
more jobs and to stop this insane deficit spending that is bankrupting this
@ deep in thoughtThank you, but I can't help but wonder why, as an
LDS person, do I need to go to some website called "LDS Fair" to learn
the facts regarding the founder of my religion? Why haven't I learned any
of these facts in the thousands of meetings I've attended or the hundreds
of manuals I've read over the years?
Once Olbermann called one of the Quorum of The Twelve (I won't mention
which one) the "worst person in the world" for a speech he gave at a
university several years ago, how universities, more and more, disparage and
ridicule people of faith: that is when I gave MSNBC up; It doesn't
mean university have to accept faith, just respect all people and be tolerant
to all. Olbermann was still upset about Prop. 8 so the talk may have alluded
to that as well. I have emailed Chris Matthews (who got his first job in Wash.
DC by Utah Senator Moss) telling him he isn't a good Catholic to call
people names. Nor is he for being cynical, nor is he for supporting gay
marriage. He worships any human who is smart and brilliant according to him.
Faith has life; secularism has nothing new. I've had to sit my parents down
and tell them, "You can't keep watching this garbage on MSNBC and
still go to church, pick one or the other." Religion is more important
to EightOhOne Where's the proof
@cpafredGo to the LDS FAIR website for accurate info on what people
claim vs the facts.
2 Bit says "I don't think anybody's questioning the fact that
Joseph Smith had multiple wifes. I don't think church members have ever
denied that."That may be so, but I grew up in the Church in SLC
and have attended my whole life (including numerous "Church History"
courses) and nobody in the Church has openly discussed Joseph Smith's
polygamy in any meetings I've attended. It seems to have been swept under
the carpet.So, as a member, I would like to know (and think I'm
entitled to know) how many wives, and what ages they were when he married them,
Joseph Smith had. Does anybody out there know?
@2bits,I can't say your post is 100% correct. For example,
Joseph Smith did get caught with the maid in their barn, in 1833. A revelation
on polygamy was his defense, and the maid (Fanny Alger) is listed as his first
plural wife, with their marriage being in 1833 (although there are no details
regarding the ceremony). Three years after the foundation of the church
isn't really all that long.I agree that what ODonnell said was
disgusting and bigoted and directly aimed at belittling a candidate and
marginalizing an entire religion.
WHERE'S HARRY REID!! Why haven't we heard Harry standing up? Do you
have to tolerate Anti-mormon sentiment and bigotry if you want to be accepted in
liberal circles? Unfortunately, as shown recently in the GOP primary, if you
want to be on the far right you apparently must also tolerate anti-mormon
sentiment, even if it flies just under the radar and unspoken. We all now the
real reason the south overwhelmingly supported anyone but Romney. So where will
LDS find a home? It appears right now, only in the center.
@ mamalvyou do know that the lds church started with an attack on
christianity, right??? you do know that joseph claimed that he was told that
churches at the time were "wrong" and that "ALL their creeds were an
abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt"@ snowmanemily partridge says otherwise
to really? There is no proof that he had sex with anyone other than Emma.
O'Donnell chastises Mormons for bigotry against blacks, while demonstrating
his own bigrotry towards Mormons. Hypocrisy at its finest. His buddy,and
executive producer of BIG LOVE, Tom Hanks, is no less guilty of this hate
speech! He called Mormons un-American, and in his phoney apology called them
discriminators. Hollywood trash---both of them! Between the two of them they
know less about Mormonism than my 7 year old grandson!
Utah...you people make me laugh. Thank you!
Unfortunately MSNBC and Lawrence O'Donnell have made my decision to never
watch or support their channel. By allowing Mr. O'Donnells remarks to have
aired and to have not appologized is a reflection of just how out of touch they
are with America. To allow such a display of bigotry and intolerance was
appalling! If you want to know what a Mormon believes today, regardless of what
happened over 100 years ago, then ask an expert- a Mormon leader. This is
irresponsible reporting to allow their station to misrepresent and to attack any
religion. The Mormon religion is a Christian based faith that does so much good
all over the world in their humanitarian work and helping people to believe in
Jesus Christ. You would never hear the Mormon church attack another religion.
Perhaps Lawrence O'Donnell and MSNBC should GET THEIR FACTS STRAIGHT and
never allow such offensive and ignorant reporting again. This was one of the
worst broadcasts in the history of television news. Shame on you MSNBC!
One must ask why O'Donnell isn't making the same accusations against
It doesn't matter because no one listens/watches his program.
I don't get it -- people upset with O'Donnell's words and yet
they blame President Obama for O'Donnell's remarks. I will not repeat
all the terrible things I've heard heard said about our President,and yet
many of the same people who said these terrible remarks are upset about
O'Donnell. O'Donnell is a bigot but we should all look in the mirror
and be careful not to criticize when we do the same to others including our
United States President.
@TruthSeeker"double dare you to read the Book of Mormon and then pray
about it with a sincere heart. That will do you more good than reading a 1000
other books."Read it, prayed about it, didn't get the sort
of answer you're looking for. I've read better books. We can skip the
part where you say I wasn't sincere and I say that you're just making
excuses for your "promise" not being the guarantee it's claimed to
be after all I've run into my comment limit on this article.
@really 1:29pm April 5thI double dare you to read the Book of Mormon
and then pray about it with a sincere heart. That will do you more good than
reading a 1000 other books.
I have never watched or listened to this ranting maniac before. This interview
indicates a lack of decency, vocabulary (shown by his need to attempt a
"shout down" session), an over abundance of bigotry and a lack of
respect for human beings, It shows a hatred for everyone except himself.
I agree they can certainly work together ... as long as they're kept
separate. It wouldn't be right for the government to be married to
Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Muslim, or any other faith considering we have
a multi-cultural country. The only right way to be, as the constitution
guarantees us, is completely separated. Church and state completely separated.
To "LValfre" you only prove that Secular Humanism is the politically
correct way of establishing a state religion.Why do we need
secularism? The US was founded with its government strongly espoused to a
Judeo-Christian belief system, and that lasted for 200 years before the athiests
and anti-thiests decided that their belief in Secular Humanism should be the
state religion.I am not saying that there should be a single state
religion, but that religion and government can work together.
"RedShirtUSS Enterprise, UTTo "utahboni" but we do have
the left pushing their favored religion into government. It is called Secular
Humanism. Why is it ok for Secular Humanism to be pushed and merged with
government, while Christianity is forbidden?"You're
mistaken. Secularism in politics is simply separation of church and state.
What's so hard to understand about that?Christianity, nor any
other religion, can be pushed and merged with our government. If that's
what you want get out of America because our constitution forbids it. Go start
your own country that's LDS only like some of these middle eastern
To "utahboni" but we do have the left pushing their favored religion
into government. It is called Secular Humanism. Why is it ok for Secular
Humanism to be pushed and merged with government, while Christianity is
@2 bits100% correct. If Lawrence O'Donnell had said
something like, "I dislike Mormonism because its early leaders practiced
polygamy," I would be okay with that, because I recognize many people feel
the same way. The problem many LDS people have with
O'Donnell's comments really has nothing to do with polygamy, but
rather his claim Joseph Smith started Mormonism only as an excuse to justify his
polygamist practices.If what O'Donnell said is the complete
truth, as some of the posts on here said it is, than the claims of other LDS
critics as to how and why Smith created Mormonism are totally false. Are LDS critics now going to say Smith speedily created the church, wrote the
Book of Mormon and started recruiting his family and associates into this church
simply as a way of justifying "Getting caught with the maid?"
@really?I don't think anybody's questioning the fact that
Joseph Smith had multiple wifes. I don't think church members have ever
denied that. But what we are discussing here is
O'Donnell's lies about the origin of the Church... His statement that
Joseph Smith was caught with his maid by his wife... so he decided to form a
church so he could ligitimize it.Are you saying when he was 14 years
old he decided to start this journey so later in life he could get away with
poligamy?The Church had been organised for quite some time before he
recieved any revelation on the ancient concept we now call "poligamy" (a
well known practice in the Bible). Poligamy was not even tought by Joseph
Smith when he organized the Church, let alone the motivation for organizing the
church.I think that's the lie we're talking about.
Lawrence O'Donnell is a definite poster child of religious bigotry,
specifically against the LDS Church and Mormonism. Being liberal and
left-leaning, he is what I would call a neo-Sadducee. But his neo-Pharisee
counterparts, like the Texas pastor (& previous) Perry supporter (who now
says he will vote for Romney, but holding his nose).Santorum's
& Gingrich's campaigns & many of their supporters have been more
about religious bigotry against Mormonism. The line Santorum likes to use that
Romney is not "conservative" enough has much more than political
overtones. The "wink, wink" & "nod, nod" part of his
campaign really is more about religion. As a big spending Republican congressman
and senator, fiscally speaking, Santorum was never really an economic
conservative. His rapid rise in Iowa from 2% to 25% in 2 weeks was not due to
Iowa voters suddenly seeing Santorum's saintly qualities as a politician.
It was, rather, mostly evangelicals getting behind him as the closest thing to a
'certifiable "Christian"' they could agree upon, versus the
heretical (and supposedly non-Christian) Mormon, Romney. Mitt not being
"conservative enough" (or "conservative" at all) means that he
is not a 'traditional Christian' (i.e., Protestant, Catholic, or
A few years back when it became indisputable that Joseph Smith had multiple
wives, the conversation switched from denial to the level of intimacy? Are you
serious? Come on, true believers, just own it! Your founder and first prophet
had multiple wives with whom he had sex. Embrace it, it's true. Deny it
and you look foolish.
RE:Henry DrummondSan Jose, CAThis is way over the line. You could
easily frame Catholicism or probably any religion in similar terms. Is he asking
Rick Santorum similar questions about his faith?EXACTLY!
The state of cable news today is so sad. Fox News and MSNBC only spin political
comments. There is nothing on the front page of USA Today, The Wall Street
Jouranl, the L.A. Times, or the Deseret News that is reported on these cable
stations. Even CNN has gone to mostly political editorials and rarely gives us
world news except national politics. Headline News no longer delivers the
headlines.I shutter to think that the real news programs and
newspapers are being pushed out.
All I could think about when I was reading this is "Praise to the man who
communed with Jehovah! Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer. Blessed to open
the last dispensation, Kings shall extol him, and nations revere. Hail to the
Prophet, ascended to heaven! Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren; Death cannot conquer the hero
Is there a better defense and than, "yes, he was a polygamist"? Please
give us some facts we can use as a rebuttal to O'Donnell's chargers
That's how Obama and the democrats function. Obama: "who me? I
wouldn't say that. i didn't say that!". But they have surrogates
in the media and MSNBC to do the work and Obama can claim "i know
nothzing" (Sgt Schultz).But I'm sure he supports Harry
Reid and the other Dems who are Mormons.
If lawmakers would keep their religion out of legislation, then their religion
would be a non-issue. In the last 30 years we have been on a long slide of
merging religion and government. A candidate's religious beliefs and values
become fair game if they support "faith-based" initiatives. When
Romney was governor of Massachusetts, he did not pull religion into government.
But, this year, on the presidential campaign trail, he has voiced support for
faith-based legislation. Since he opened that box, he has to expect push back.
The rest of the country was content to leave Utah and the LDS alone until
they put their money into defeating Prop 8 in California. Once the church took
that step, they entered the political arena. Politics are brutal. If a church
gets into the middle of politics, then cannot then hide behind a wall of
separation of church and state.
To those who are saying that what O'Donnell described "actually
happened" or happened in reverse to what O'Donnell described, maybe you
should do a little objective research before you post. I have done some
objective research. Yes, Joseph Smith married other women. But evidence that
exists points to it not starting out from an affair. Even quotes from some who
left the LDS Church say that his marriage with Fanny Alger (the maid referenced
by O'Donnell) was that from the beginning, a marriage not an affair (to be
fair, it was a polygamous marriage, but a marriage nonetheless). Furthermore,
Joseph Smith probably never fathered any children with anyone but Emma, leaving
some to believe he never had sexual relations with anyone but Emma. In short,
any attempt to defend O'Donnell is unfounded at best, bigotry at worst.
Let me give a brief critique Lawrence O'Donnell's comment. "Mormonism was created by a guy in upstate New York in 1830 when he got
caught having sex with the maid and explained to his wife that God told him to
do it."This implies Joseph Smith didn't even come up with
the idea of starting a religion until he supposedly "got caught... with the
maid." Untrue. I'm sure even LDS critics would agree with
that. Of course, what O'Donnell is referring to is the fact Emma Smith had
difficulty accepting Joseph Smith's practice of polygamy, which is true,
but O'Donnell clearly sensationalizes this point. He said,
"Forty-eight wives later, Joseph Smith's lifestyle was completely
sanctified in the religion he invented to go with it."The first
part of this is true, although to what extent he was intimate with these wives
is unclear. Of course, we know Brigham Young Young and John Taylor had many
children with many wives so its a moot point. The second part of
this is personal opinion on O'Donnell's part. The same could really be
said about almost any religion.
To my fellow Latter-day Saints. No matter what else is said about our faith or
our church's leaders, past or present, never forget these words from Joseph
Smith, spoken at a time when the LDS Church was just in its infancy."The Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the
work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may
assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly,
and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime,
swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be
accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done."
@deep in thought:You place happiness above truth, which is great.
You will live a long and happy life. Your "truth" is found in things
that make you happy. Nothing wrong with that.Some of the others like
me place truth above happiness. We can't help it; we care more about what
is actually true than what makes us happy. That's just the way we are; we
can't ignore the "preponderance of evidence" in religious matters.
Again, nothing wrong with our way of thinking.Some day, maybe both
types of people can learn to coexist.
So basically as of 10:00 pm this thread is now down to I know you are but what
am I. great use of our free speech people.
Ms.WSouth Jordan, UTThere's still some confusion as to
what obama's religion really is.... Is he Muslim, Christian, atheist? What
is he? I don't believe he wants anyone to know, frankly.Going to a
Christian church once every few months and verbally declaring yourself a
Christian, does not make one a Christian. Last time I checked true Christians
live their lives centered around Jesus Christ on a daily basis, and it shows in
their countenance...I don't see this in barack obama.same could
be said about willard:There's still some confusion as to what
romney's religion really is...Do Mormons still believe in polygamy,
it's still taught in D&C. What is it? I don't believe he wants
anyone to know, frankly. Going to a Mormon church every Sunday and verbally
declaring yourself a Christian does not make one a Christian. Last time I
checked true Christians live their lives centered around Jesus Christ on a daily
basis, and it shows in their countenance...I don't see this in Mitt
Romneysee how this works???
Everything O'Donnell said was true. And there's a whole lot more.
The age of some of the wives would land many early church leaders in jail today.
But that's the paragon of morality. That's apotheosis. If you're going to stand up and make a claim about how the universe works
and how history has transpired, don't go bellyaching and calling critics
"bigots" if they think your beliefs are ridiculous.
@utahbluedevil, I believe the correct question is will the "liberals"
sink any further? Probably not there isn't much further to go.
to mnelsonj: Joseph and fanny did not have an intimate relationship. Joseph had
no intimate relationships with his wives. Polygamy then was not what it is
today. The revelation about polygamy was given to Joseph years before he even
wrote it down or took other wives.
The Dems want to distract attention from Obama's dismal record. Ignore the
smoke and mirrors and demand to see the man behind the curtain, the man they
don't want you to see.
Regarding the nature of Joseph Smith's polygamy, respected LDS historians
including Richard Bushman have concluded that there was a sexual component to
his relationships with his other wives beside Emma. While polygamy is no longer
practiced, we cannot deny it was a part of our early Church history.
Lasvegaspam - I read the first two lines of your recital of the stuff you
discovered... and stopped because to that point you already had so much
factually wrong, it wasn't worth reading further. For example, you
accusations of Rape. You do realize the age of consent in Hawaii is 16 years
old. Secondly, there is no US standard for age of consent - that is left up to
the states.So before you go off pumping your chest you have done
more than the liberal media has, a little fact checking and brushing up on the
law might be advised. And even if your "astonishing" news
is true, so what. What does his father have to do with anything anyway. When
you are hired for a job, does what your dad do make any impact on if you are
qualified to do the job. Unbelievable how Barak Obama was conceived is even
relevant. Will the "conservatives" sink any further into
An LDS friend of mine was recently whining about all the
"anti-Mormonism" in the media. I ribbed him a bit about "being
paranoid". He said, "It isn't paranoia if they really are out to
get us!"I didn't know why I continue a friendship with him,
but now I know it is for the entertainment!
I wonder what the liberal media would say or ask about Mormonism if they
interviewed The Senate Majority Leader from Nevada? Speak one way out the left
side of their mouths and then another way outside the right side. Ignorance is
bliss I suppose.
If Romney gets elected, then attacks like these are going to be a daily
occurrence. As a Latter Day Saint, I can handle the attacks, but what I
can't handle is the whining by other latter day saints that we are being
attacked. As the church's profile is raised, so will the number of attacks.
So what. Deal with it. Get used to it. It'll be interesting to see who can
practice what they preach once a little bit of heat is applied.
I'm fine with these statements as long as they ask Santorum about his
fellow Southern Christians' involvement in slavery. That seems fair to me.
alcoholic? got caught with the maid? bank criminal? these are all new ones.
apparently he was planning a long con when he was 14. Let's see, I'm
14, so I'm going to claim to have seen God so later in life when I'm
30, I can have an affair and excuse it as revelation. Oh yeah, I'll have
to write a book in the meantime to further move the story and not give in when I
have by head beat in and get covered by tar. All to cover my need to have more
than one wife.O'Donnell is ridiculous.
I saw nothing wrong or inaccurate in O'Donnell's little summary of
Mormon history.Why this tempest in a teapot?
It is said that it is better that people think you're stupid--than open
your mouth and remove all doubt. If the MSNBC editors allow such yellow
journalism, then the public can force the issue by not buying into their
broadcasts. Personally, I don't have the time or interest to listen to
shoddy, unresearched reporting--how about you?
This is just the start. I have said it before. Liberals will make born-again
southern evangelicals look friendly toward the church. People like this guy are
a prime example of the liberal media hypocrisy. Keep in mind he works for a
network who EDITED the 911 call in the Zimmerman case in Florida. They have no
interest in the truth and will do ANYTHING to keep Obama in office.
Why is there so much distrust of the journalistic integrity of so many in the
media? Lawrence O'Donnell anti-Mormon bias is a good example of what
causes the distrust. He didn't do his due-diligence homework, he
overstated his case, he used inflammatory language, and when called on it, he
refuses to apologize or even take ownership of his errors. He said in his blog
in the Huffington Post, I don't hate Mormons; I have several Mormon
friends; actually I have one Mormon friend; well actually he is no longer a
practicing Mormon. And, to use his own phrase: How is this evidence that you
"don't hate Mormons?" To paraphrase he seems to be trying to
cover-up his errors and gratify his pride and vain ambition. Mr.
O'Donnell, it is understandable that you might make mistakes, but please
"own-up," or you do your credibility, and that of your colleagues, great
Oh well, yet another person lets us know what's in their heart via the
blessings of Freedom of the Press and Speech. Nothing new I haven't heard
a zillion times the last 35 years or so. Now, just waiting for people to come
up to me at work so I can answer their questions about the LDS Church. Keep
your sense of humor because any PR is good PR, as long as the individual members
are living such that they draw stark contrast to what is said.
All those who believe in the truthfulness of the Holy Bible must acknowledge
that not all men have historically been able to obtain the priesthood before-
and women cannot today in many other faiths aside from the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints.God is no respecter of persons. It does
not matter whether one is black, white, male, female, American, Islamic, Jewish,
or Mormon. God loves all His children and every last one of us knows this. The
blessings of a heavenly authorized priesthood are available to all those who
want it. Women may receive such blessings by administering from another- but the
blessings are still readily available. Black members of the church may not have
had it but it was ultimately given after we as a people were either faithful
enough or righteous enough to receive it.LDS doctrine is that God is
an unchanging God, that we are the ones who change in our willingness to live
and believe in what's right. Those who take the time to listen, to
consider, and peacefully discuss- even as Dr. King himself suggested- will
understand. Those living in hatred will never accept the truth.
Bring it on.Romney could easily neutralize attacks such as this by
these clowns. You wanna talk about Mormonism?? Let's discuss
the humanitarian aid given in times of natural disaster, to the tune of
$millions of dollars to the benefit of hundreds of thousands all over the world.
Let's discuss how the Mormon church promotes education around the world
including a perpetual education fund for the under privileged. Let's
discuss the Church's welfare programs and facilities that feed the hungry
and teach its recipients about self-reliance. Let's discuss the
Church's promotion of Women throughout the world through one of the oldest
and largest Women's organizations in existence.And this is the
church Romney believes in. Now let's hear about yours.We could
go on - but I think you get the point. Nuff said.
JSH 1:33 "...and that my name should be had for good and evil among all
nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken
of among all people."
Re: "Read this: "Studies of the Book of Mormon." by B.H. Roberts. .
. . Read it, I dare you."Read it. Liked it, for what it is -- an
honest, if incomplete work, full of dated, even demonstrably false assumptions,
and suggesting further research into issues, many of which have been addressed
and resolved in favor of the Book of Mormon by recent, careful scholarship.Suggesting it demonstrates shaken faith on the part of its author, or
that it should shake the faith of believing Mormons, is either sophomoric or
This is all so reminiscent of certain personalities said about Islam for years
following 9/11. The vile crud coming from Sean Hannity sitting behind a desk at
Fox News was pretty similar. I guess it was okay because it was directed as
Islam and not at Mormons, right? BTW, maybe we need to put down the
persecution card. When you react this way, the opposition will continue to
@cats "Wow. Hyper partisanship is alive and well"very true and we need look no further then your rhetoric laced post to see
that is true.
I like Mitt. I hope he wins.
@counter intelligence So what part of my original post confused you?
I already addressed this issue about having to renounce every guy with a
platform to spew nonsense. He does not speak for me or anyone but himself
beyond that I would refer you back to my first post.
@counter intelligence again with the distortions? it was not the
Clinton campaign it was an anonymous group that claimed to support Clinton.
What outrages slander of Joseph Smith & the church. ridiculous.
What makes me scratch my head is the people who are so angry about people
attacking Mitt's religion... so they respond by attacking Obama's
religion! (or the vagueness or lack of consistency in what Obama's
religious beliefs have been over his lifetime)I say if you
don't like people attacking Mitt's religion with lies... that last
thing you would do is attack Obama's religion with lies.
If Harry Reid had substance, he would publicly condemn O'Donnell's
rant. My respect for him would increase a hundredfold if he did, but my hunch is
he'll remain sadly quiet on the issue. I hope I'm wrong.
To Really:You read my comment 100 percent incorrectly! And I also
said in my posts:"Besides,just because the other guy does it,
doesn't mean WE should tolerate hatred in any form.That is just an excuse
to escalate Hatred even more!" 11:55 AM Post.In, addition Really
I have constantly gone after FOX news(at least 50 posts) for comments about
others. I have singled out many FOX commentors including Hannity and Susteran.
So again, your comment is inaccurate and meant to be inflammatory because it is
not based on fact but your assumption! The hate speech just needs to end. Again,
people like O"Donnell need to put on notice that HATRED of any type needs to
Harry Reid, darling of the left and of msnbc, needs to step up and correct the
hate speech coming from O'Donnell.
"@ nonbeliever. Name one incident where Obama’s religion was attacked
on Fox News! Just one!"Mountainman, just read your challenge,
and I am not sure nonbeliever saw it, but I will give you a jump start. Just go
review what our very own Glenn Beck said on FoxNews about Religions and Social
Justice. Or just do a search on FoxNews itself. It isn't that
hard, I would past links if I could. And you seriously, dont
remember seeing anything about Reverend Wright on there... really? Try
searching the site for "As Obama talks religion, questions surround his
controverial pastor".I know Mountainman you only wanted one, but
I thought I would give choices. The Glenn Beck stuff is by far the most
entertaining, perhaps start there.For the record - all of this is
silly,claims one side is doing it more than the other, that the media is showing
a biase here is mostly in the eyes of the beholder. These issues were present
all the way back to Jefferson and Franklin and their faith in Universalism, or
Adams following of Joseph Priestley and his teaching on Unitarianism.This is nothing new.
O'Donnell assumes that all Mormons will vote for Romney. I have been in
groups of LDS people who assumed that all Mormons oppose Obama. I think we all
know what happens when we assume. I have been known to agree with
O'Donnell from time to time, but I won't ever watch him again.
It's time we learned civil discourse -- and unitedly eschewed bigotry -- in
this country. Those who actually watch MSNBC need to speak out against
O'Donnell's bigotry; those who actually watch FOX should speak out
when bigotry raises its ugly head on that network. Show the people who make
inappropriate remarks that their constituents are offended; they don't care
if their opponents are!
Problem: O'Donnell is paid to be a journalist. I'm not, yet seem to
have uncovered more facts than any left-leaning reporter chooses to share about
Barack Obama's own family history. Barack’s biological father,
24-year-old Barack Obama, Sr. of Kenya, impregnated 17-year-old Anne Dunham.
That would be statutory rape in these United States, of which Hawaii was a brand
new one in 1960 when this occurred. Even more astonishing, though, is the fact
that Barack Sr. was ALREADY MARRIED at the time, with a wife and child back in
Kenya. Barack Sr.’s first wife, Kezia, later stated she had granted her
consent for him to marry a second wife, in keeping with Luo customs. "Polygamy?", you ask, "in our President's own family?"
No worries. The corrupt media will only dwell on a Mitt Romney polygamy
connection of over a century ago.
I am a liberal Democrat and I think O'Donnell is as big an idiot as Rush or
Hannity. They are all a bunch of blow hard no nothings who have severe "God
Complexes". If you’re basing your vote on what those
jerks have to say then I would prefer you not vote.
Is this article seriously trying to imply that Obama controls MSNBC and Lawrence
O'Donnell? Seriously? If yes, does that mean that Romney
controls Fox News and Bill O'Reilly?
Uber-Lame misrepresentations of historical facts in his statements. If
that's about as much "truth" as you expect from your
"News"... go ahead and keep watching this drivel on MSNBC... if it fits
your agenda, why not revel in it (regardless of whether what he says is provably
not true).I can see disagreeing on doctrine, theology or subjective
things like politics... but knowingly misrepresenting documented historical
fact... is lame in my opinion. But some people will just love it, and keep
watching MSNBC. Heck, it fits their presumtions and prejudices, so why not?Dishonesty parading as "NEWS" whether it's from FOXNews OR
MSNBC... is wrong IMO.That's why I don't watch either of them.
Fox doesn't attack Obama's religion. They just say that nobody is
really sure what religion Obama is because what he says about that seems
different than what he says and does at other times. This is so far out that it
really doesn't hurt Romney or the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of
Waiting for Barack Obama to invite Larry O'Donnell and Orrin Hatch to the
Rose Garden for another of his famous man-date beers, even though Orrin would
have to defer for a Pepsi Free, so they can work out their misguided conceptions
of one another.
Lawrence O'Donnell is being silly. The Mormon faith is no more ridiculous
than any other religious faith. All of them obey Archie Bunker's
definition of faith: "Faith is believing in something that no one in their
right mind would believe."
There are actually people on these blogs trying to defend the indefensible.
Wow. Hyper partisanship is alive and well.O'Donnell has been a
Democrat political operative for many years, so don't try to claim he has
no connection. He is a surrogate for the Obama campaign.This shows
just how dirty this is going to get. It is a desperate attempt to destroy
Romney and is religious bigotry at its worst that should have been relegated to
the trash heap of history long ago. We have been persecuted for
almost two centuries because of these kinds of lies. Anyone, liberal or
conservative, Republican or Democrat should be condemning O'Donell's
vile attacks. I wrote to MSNBC four years ago to complain about his remarks
then. As you can see, it didn't do any good. Now, they have new owners.
Maybe it will do some good now.
If we can survive an official extermination order- we can survive the rantings
of a seemingly ignorant mouthpiece-- all the media coverage only brought the
comments further into the light--it was on MSNBC, so who really saw it?
@ JimmyJackJohnJonesI have some "required" reading for you.
Go to LDS.org and read all 6 hours worth of conference talks given less than a
week ago.They are filled with messages of hope, forgiveness,
kindness, Christ, family, and love. Far better than any third party's
slanted rendition of "what my religion is."No wonder Rick
Santorum thinks he will do so well in Texas. Best wishes to you. In all honesty, there isn't anything anyone could tell me about Joseph
Smith that would change how I live. Going to church makes me happy, saying
prayers makes me happy, reading scriptures makes me happy, raising children to
be honest, free of drugs, and obedient makes me happy. Why argue with so much
ugliness against a religion that is helping to raise productive people along
with other good Christian and non-Christian religious groups. REALLY? Save the
venom for groups who is hurting society and draining the social resources.
procuradorfiscal: Read this: "Studies of the Book of Mormon." by B.H.
Roberts. He was a member of the seventy and died in good standing in the LDS
religion. He was not a bigot and was not mean-spirited. Read it, I dare you.
Let’s compare apples to apples, shall we….O’Donnell is an over the top, Media-bimbo, fanning the fans for
ratings…. Limbaugh is an over the top, Media-bimbo, fanning the fans
for ratings…. There, is everybody happy?
Romney's switch from moderate to rabid Republican has been accompanied by
his own shills and surrogates (if O'Donnell qualifies, so do Mitt's
Citizens United-fueled Super PAC ads). But just because candidate-now-President
Obama's religion has been attacked, vilified, and misrepresented for four
years, it is still no reason to attack Mitt's Mormonism. Intransigent
Obama haters are demanding that he personally denounce O'Donnell's
virulent outbursts, yet none of the Republican presidential candidates has had
the decency (or courage) to denounce Rush Limbaugh's or Glenn Beck's
characterizations of our president as Muslim, socialist, birther target, etc.
Perhaps silence is golden when it respects free speech. Especially vitriolic
I really thought that this piece was about O'Donnell. But if I
follow the logic here, Obama is the puppet master of the media and everything
they say and do is at his beck and call. Is it fair and reasonable then to make
the same association that anything in any of the media that is said by the media
the attacks Obama is similary at the direction of the Romney campaign, and is a
refection of Romney as a person?I am just wondering, seeing how it
seems only right to apply the same standards to all partied involved.Really guys, are your glasses just that tainted and everything that happens in
life has an Obama hate spin on it.How sad.
Re: "There are some excellent books describing the beginnings of Mormonism
that every Latter Day Saint should read."Yeah -- and after
you've read all those "excellent" books [I read -- skimmed, really
-- most of them], you'll have not the slightest extra insight into Mitt
Romney's, Joseph Smith's, or any other Mormon's beliefs or
character.But reading these thoroughly discredited, plainly
mean-spirited polemics will certainly give the reader great insight into the
[lack of] character, ethics, and personality of their authors, as well as those
of like-minded modern bigots -- people like Lawrence O'Donnell, Bill Maher,
Richard Dawkins, and Santorum's Florida campaign manager.Enough
so, to make you feel sorry for them -- sad, small-minded, little faux-faustian
functionaries, dancing to another's tune and motivated primarily by blind,
uninformed, unreasoned, unyielding hate, as much for themselves, as for their
This is idiocy, the only attacks to date have come from either REPUBLICANS or
the media (usually right wing conservative commentators, not left leaning ones);
no Democrat who has ever run against Romney has attacked the LDS religion.
Re don17: Relax, the factually inaccurate, inflammatory words of Mr.
O'Donnell are no worse than the half-truths, smears, and outright lies we
hear every day on fox news. The only difference is that you like hearing those
words. Perhaps this idiocy displayed by O'Donnell can serve as a wake up
call to everyone.Then again, it won't.
If Joseph Smith was a fraud, why would he keep so many records? Why would he
tell others to keep records? Why did the church grow to 25,000 people by the
time he passed away if he wasn't honest? Ivy League educated people
like O'donnell and Frank Rich and Keith Olbermann think they are so smart
and yet they are blind to the obvious: Joseph Smith was the most moral, wise
and well-rounded man our country has ever had.
With O’Donnell’s style of in depth research (sarcasm) he should
apply to the National Enquirer for his next job.
For anyone interested in the early history of the church, here are a few items
worth checking out. There are some excellent books describing the
beginnings of Mormonism that every Latter Day Saint should read.
"Gleanings By The Way" by John A. Clark is one. "Utah and the
Mormons" by Benjamin G. Ferris is another. Early Days Of Mormonism" by
James Henry Kennedy is great. J.W. Gunnison's excellent book "The
Mormons, or Latter Day Saints in the Valley of the Great Salt Lake" is a
must read. "Tell It All" is a great narrative about life in Salt Lake
in the 1880s by T.B.H. Stenhouse. Another good one is "Female Life Among
The Mormons" by Maria Ward. And of course there's the classic,
"Wife Number 19" by Ann Eliza Young. All are available for
free download from Google Books.
MSNBC is Owned by NBC Universal 30 Rockefeller Center NYC,NY. The local
affiliate is KSL Salt Lake City! They need to be called 500,000 times today and
complained at for accepting this junk hate speech without a fight! Boycotting
NBC products and programming should not be out of the question now either! Thank
When I read the statements that were made against my church, I first thought,
well what he's saying is technically true. If I were to go to the Maxwell
institute or FAIR they address all of these issues. Fanny Alger and Joseph Smith
did have an intimate relationship in Kirtland. Oliver Cowdery was excommunicated
because he accused Joseph Smith of adultery whereas Joseph could have revealed
the polygamy revelation with him. John Taylor the 3rd Pres of the church writes
that he and Richards, and Joseph and Hyrum drank wine for the purpose of getting
drunk in Carthage Jail. The WOW was viewed differently then then now. These
things are true. Either you accept that Joseph Smith was a fraud and a liar, or
you accept him as human. The history is messy to put it nicely. If we were
taught the factual history in church, when he hear reporters and non-members
talk about the church then we already know whats going on, and don't
automatically assume that these people are anti-Mormon or lying.
alt134; When was the last time MSNBC had a official representative of the LDS
Church on to rebut what they say? Have you seen an Articulate straight forward
Elder Holland on MSNBC? No!On FOX you will see Rev. Sharpton and
other Black Activists as well as Muslims or Atheists with views differing from
FOX's general stand. But they do try to represent all sides! MSNBC? Not a
chance! On this point your points are lacking a strong position.Besides, just because the other guy does it, doesn't mean WE should
tolerate hatred in any form! That is just an excuse to escalate hatred even
more!O'Donnell needs to go. We should all be screaming at MSNBC
every last one of us who are against any type of hatred and his talk is HATE
Within 5 minutes of hearing these comments by O'Donnell and complaining to
MSNBC I commented here on the DN site about this! I am glad this reporter picked
this up and ran with it! Now is the time to take the ball into the Endzone and
end this bigotry! Having lived through blatant, physically abusive Anti-Mormon
discrimination we can not continue to tolerate this bully at his pulpuit of
HATE! He needs to go and go now!
Here is the main problem with O'donnell's comment. He said "Now
part of Romney's religion problem is that he's a part of a new
religion. Established religions like Judaism, which is about 4,000 years old,
and Christianity, which is about 2,000 years old, don't easily warm up to
new religions like Romney's, which is only 182 years old. Mormonism was
created by a guy in upstate New York in 1830 when he got caught having sex with
the maid and explained to his wife that God told him to do it. Forty-eight wives
later, Joseph Smith's lifestyle was completely sanctified in the religion
he invented to go with it...." Now according to this comment Joseph
Smith started the Church because he was caught having an affair with the
maid.That would be Fanny Alger his first plural wife. The problem is that that
marriage was in 1833. That is 3 years after the Church was organized and there
is documented conflict over the Book of Mormon before 1830. So his facts are
SIMPLY NOT TRUE.
If as some are claiming that religion can be used. Then obama will need to
disclose his religious beliefs. Explain his 20 or so years with Rev Wright, and
his sudden departure when he ran for office. I suppose that the left hates the
constitution, so, let's make religion a test for the office of presidency.
But then again obama can't even run on his religious affiliation. obama has
nothing to run on at all. Even using his wife he has nothing. obama needs to go.
Today would be good, 3.5 years ago would have been better.
@ Max, "Fox would never keep anybody around like that." I have never
laughed so hard! (I sure hope you were tongue in cheek).
What about Haplogroup X? DNA research in genetics journals, (non-LDS sources)
that show this baffling link between Native Americans, namely the Hopewell
indians and the Druze. The Druze are a group in Israel. All of the evidence
predates Columbus. It is odd how the facts you choose to ignore are exactly the
facts that you try to use to prove your point. Facts don't prove the BoM,
but slanderous comments about Joseph Smith only make you look like a bigot.
To Mountanman, When Fox news comes out with a campaign like,
"Obama Administration’s War on Religion," is that not an attack?
Look at Ms. W’s comment. Fox has done an excellent job at
tearing apart Obama’s faith. I guess it is Mitt’s turn to get
abused just as Obama did right? O’Donnell exaggerated details
just like what the far right does of the left. Joseph Smith was probably
not an alcoholic, but he did moderately drink and smoke even after the word of
wisdom revelation. 48 wives probably not, but at least 33. The far
right and left take facts and exaggerate them to make situations sound worse
than they are. Unfortunately, people will keep calling Obama a muslim and
Romney will be faced with similar garbage as well.
Non Believer, But O'donnell is making up stuff out of thin air.
He doesn't do any research. He doesn't let any facts get in the way of
his stories. Only a vile and immoral person does that. Fox would never keep
anybody around like that.
@Ms. W"There's still some confusion as to what obama's
religion really is.... Is he Muslim, Christian, atheist? What is he? I
don't believe he wants anyone to know, frankly.Going to a Christian
church once every few months and verbally declaring yourself a Christian, does
not make one a Christian. Last time I checked true Christians live their lives
centered around Jesus Christ on a daily basis, and it shows in their
countenance...I don't see this in barack obama."He's a
Christian. He's always been Christian. Heck, one of the attacks on him is
that he spent 20 years occasionally attending a particular Christian church.
Going to a Christian church once every few months is called normal Christian
activity in the northeast. Verbally declaring yourself a Christian means that
you identify as a Christian and are a Christian. Obama's a good, decent,
great family man (just like Romney), what in the world gives you the authority
to judge him and condemn him as not being a Christian?
January 19, 2007, editions of Fox & Friends First and Fox & Friends,
co-host Brian Kilmeade, along with co-hosts Steve Doocy and Gretchen Carlson,
spent several segments advancing a false report that then-Sen. Barack Obama was
raised a Muslim and attended a madrassa, or Islamic school, as a child in
IndonesiaJune 16, 2008, edition of Special Report, then-host Brit
Hume falsely claimedthat Malik Obama, Barack Obama's half-brother,
"tells The Jerusalem Post that 'if elected his brother will be a good
president for the Jewish people, despite his Muslim background.'sept 10, 2010 fox promoted Ann Coulters Column in which Coulter argues that
the "nonsense" about Obama being a Muslim "has got to stop"
because Obama "is obviously an atheist." 3/30/11
O”Riley factor Donald trump stated during a conversation about
Obama’s birth certificate “He may have one but there's
something on that, maybe religion, maybe it says he is a Muslim.
Last weekend some young man tried to have a "Gotcha" moment with Mitt
during a candidate Q&A. The question was about interracial marriage
referenced in the Book of Moses. Mitt wisely side-stepped the question and went
on to the Next question. In all fairness are we electing a President or a Chief
Chaplain of these United States? O'Donnel raised unconfortable
but valid questions about the Prophet and other issues. The question
before the America should be who be govern better. The Havard Educated Lawyer,
Great-Grandson of Polygamists whose family twice was kicked out of this country
OR the Harvard educated Lawyer son of a Muslim from Kenya (whose current
economic policies seem to be getting more people working)?
"It's all fair game since FOX has been attacking Obama's religion
since 2008."There's still some confusion as to what
obama's religion really is.... Is he Muslim, Christian, atheist? What
is he? I don't believe he wants anyone to know, frankly. Going to
a Christian church once every few months and verbally declaring yourself a
Christian, does not make one a Christian. Last time I checked true Christians
live their lives centered around Jesus Christ on a daily basis, and it shows in
their countenance...I don't see this in barack obama.
I suppose O'Donnel feels Senator Harry Reid is all of those things that he
is pinning on President-Elect Mitt Romney. I guess he feels obama should never
appointed Jon Huntsman as an ambassador to China. Does O'Donnel know how
many "Mormons" are in political positions on all sides of the politcal
spectrum?Where is Al Sharpton on this? Why isn't he marching
and demanding O'Donnel lose his job? You'll notice the
"Mormons" aren't marching and demanding entitlements over this.MSNBC needs to issue an apology. Not just a quick article blurb. But,
it needs to be a full week of apologizing to the LDS community for this slander.
It's people like O'Donnel that spread misinformation and hate, and it
a quick blurb is not going to reach the masses. The convenient
"unintended" consequences has already been done.I wonder if
O'Donnel feels like a bigger person for slandering a minority group. As a
Liberal I am way embarrased of this person.
@non believer - "The Right still verbally attacks his former Preacher, Rev
Wright. Why should Mitt get a free pass?"You make a good point.
I don't think there should be any "free passes" but I do think
that both Obama and Romney should not be having these attacks. I am very
disappointed on the attacks to Obama. I disagree with his policies, because I
want to be governed and represented a different way, but that does not give me
or anybody else the right to spread falsehoods about his faith.I
think both Democrats, Republicans, and Independents need to step up in their
individual character and stop bigotry. It's starts with ourselves, can we
work to eliminate it from ourselves. Second, we need to not only support the
rights of those we agree with but also support and uphold the rights of those we
don't ( self admittedly this isn't easy ). I'm not
asking for a free pass to Romney, I'm asking for all of us to grow up and
be respectful to one another. Disagreements can be healthy, but disrespect
based on beliefs and bigotry based on incorrect facts about beliefs is
"non believer" is correct. I regularly watch MSNBC and I'll agree
that O'Donnell is over the top when it comes to Mormonism. But that is his
right to think that way, just as virtually all of the Southern Baptist community
has the right to rip Mormonism. I don't see the same attacks on Mormons
coming from the other MSNBC hosts, and my long standing knowledge of Chris
Matthews is that he is actually friendly and respectful of Mormons and the
Church. On commentator does not make the whole, and thin-skinned Mormons need
to stop thinking that the left is picking on them based on one guy. Your threat
is more from the right. Be mature and let it roll off your back. On the other
hand, why are Mormons climbing into bed with the conservative Christian crowd,
who will never fully accept Mormons? Look at the polls. They put Mormonism
right up there with Islam. Talk about selective amnesia.
I see two or three posters here saying that what O'Donnell said was true.
That's very interesting. It seems to me that anything so wild with a shred
of evidence would be general knowledge precisely because so many wish to refute
the validity of the movement--or do you really think the LDS Church has the
ability to sweep it all under the rug? So, it probably behooves anyone
suggesting these things are true to let us all know the sources behind said
evidence. Having done a fair amount of "research" myself, I am quite
willing to assert that whatever sources exist would be extremely shaky indeed.
I've been reading Mormon history recently and virtually everything in those
last couple of paragraphs is true. O'Donnell may have used some not very
kind adjectives, but it all fairly accurate. Joseph Smith was convicted, he did
love to drink and he was a bit of a scoundrel. It's all well documented,
just the Church likes to pretend it didn't happen. Heck, in Salt Lake
Brigham Young was the main retailer of whiskey and many elders boasted that
they'd never drink a drop that wasn't made by brother Brigham.You can't claim bigotry if something is true but you just
don't like the way it sounds.
Lawrence O'Donnell, Rush Limbaugh, Bill Maher, Bill O'Reilley. They
all say provocative stuff. That's their deal. So what's the
difference? Why are some people made at some of the comments and others not. It
all has to do with the choir you are— the one they're preaching
to or not. LDS feeling offended and hurt over O'Donnell's remarks but
many if not most probably were not up in arms about Obama not a Christian
comments.......or birther claims. Obama caught grief for going to Rev.
Wright's church because of Wright's black liberation theology and
thats fine to most/many. But if someone questions how Romney's Mormonism
has dealt with race— or on the origins of Mormonism— it is
MSN is more objective than Faux.
It is funny how O'Donnell's arguments work against him. He criticizes
the LDS Church for a polygamist past, but O'Donnell obviously profits from
that today. He brings up DNA and the Book of Mormon, but ignores that DNA proves
that Joseph Smith wasn't the libertine that O'Donnell claims he was.
Having been censored at 9:35, I am trying again.This is really a
product of political bias. If Obama and Romney were to have been switched in
their party affiliations, the comments would be negative on Obama’s
religious activity and silent on Romney’s religious beliefs.Mr. O'Donnell is the host of "The last Word" on MSMBC. IF you go
to their web page you can get the address to email the show. I am sure he would
love to hear from you.
Much of what O'Donnell is saying is based upon historical fact. He
conclusions and charges may be faulted, but his basic history is essentially
correct. But this stuff has no place in a political campaign whether directed
at Romney or Obama. Look hard enough and you can find history that will
embarrass most religions. The Mormon Church is no exception.
@counter intelligence He does not speak for me. So can we know expect you,
every other conservative and Romney will renounce every specific comment made
by every half wit with access to a microphone or the internet that says
something repugnant about Obama? Should we ask Romney and Obama to
specifically renounce every troll that comes on threads like these and makes
inapprioate comment?. it is just a silly distraction.
I'm not sure why Hatch is making these statements about our president
because President Obama, to date, has not criticized Romney's religion nor
has he criticized his opponent's religious affiliations in the past. I
grew up LDS, and have lived in Utah all my life. I started wondering if the
types of things O'Donnell said are accurate. I did some research and
discovered that O'Donnell's comments are true; however, I agree that
he is using those facts to preach intolerance of Romney's faith.
@ nonbeliever. Name one incident where Obama’s religion was attacked on
Fox News! Just one!
MSNBC is biased to the Left just as Fox is biased to the Right. What
O'Donnell said about Joseph did in fact happen but O'Donnell is
drawing conclusions and framing the arguments in a biased, bigoted manner. Any
church could be viewed in such light. It is difficult to judge the
events of Joseph's life because they happend 180 years ago in a different
time and place. Joseph was an imperfect man who was doing his best to fulfil
the calling he was given. It doesn't bother me one bit to realize that
Joseph used the principle of repentance throughout his life. Faith is required
to reconcile the seemingly disturbing factual events of LDS history.
@deep in thoughtThere are relevant religious questions that would be fair
to ask Romney. O'Donnells comments however were beyond the line of
acceptability. That said, I don't care about any reprimand
teaming up with conservatives because conservative newshosts (opinion hosts)
reglarly attack muslims and atheists to the delight of their viewers. Now if
your petition had a giant list of examples of religious bigotry from members on
both sides of the political spectrum... I'd listen to that.
I wonder why Comcast continues to support this guy?
Anti-Mormon propaganda has led to many LDS conversions. Another news flash,
there are Mormon democrats, and some very powerful ones. And yes, they
reconcile the democrat party line to their LDS faith. And yes, they are as much
responsible for LDS church's decision-making 150 years ago as Mitt Romney
is.O-Donnell's problem is he think the LDS church's
membership would leave the church if they found out Joseph Smith wasn't a
saint. Unfortunately for him, it appears that most members have gotten an
answer directly from God through the Holy Spirit with regards to the validity of
the Book of Mormon. They can't deny it is true, even if Joseph Smith was a
sinner (like us all).Lastly, the desire, planning, and act of
tearing down anyone's faith is absurd. What's the point? If you
think you have something better, then share it. Don't sit around taking
pot-shots at other's houses. Maybe, O'Donnell is hoping they are made
MSNBC is to the Left what FOX News is to the Right..... It's all fair game
since FOX has been attacking Obama's religion since 2008. I still here from
idiots that he is a Muslim and not Christian. The Right still verbally attacks
his former Preacher, Rev Wright. Why should Mitt get a free pass?
He should've attacked atheists or muslims or black liberal religious
people, then he'd have gotten a job at foxnews.
@ Deep in thoughtThere isn't any petition that I know of. But
you can go onto the MSNBC website and request a correction. You can locate it
on their website under the shortcuts. Yes it is true poligamy is apart of the
LDS past there is not denying that and we shoudn't try to hide it. But as
for the rest of what was said, O'Donnell was wrong.
DO we expect any less from msnbc? Propaganda aping of deems and th e Obama
Well, he is not completely off base on his comments.... Though one can find
fault in EVERY religion since no God's or Deity's have appeared in the
last 2000 years.... Joseph WAS convicted of being a Glass Looker and of Bad
Moral Character years before he started the church. So some of what he said is
true...... But like I always say, a half truth is still a lie... Just ask Sarah
@ Truthseeker. The best predictor of a person’s future behavior is their
past behavior. Do the terms “social Darwinism” and the threats to
the SCOTUS mean anything to you? Of course team Obama will resort to personal
attacks to get elected. What else has he got?And yes, Obama does own the
airwaves, and MSNBC hacks prove it!
O'Donnell is entitled to his opinion that's what makes this country so
great. However, as in all decisions and actions that we make there will always
be consquences which we have no control over, either in this life or the next.
Perhaps, one day or future time, O'Donnell may have the opportunity to talk
to Joseph Smith about his life. Now that would be interesting.
Jeramiah Wright vs Joseph Smith. They should put this on pay-per-view.
Obviously inaccurate but what he said happened, not in the order he said it
in.The LDS Church has oddities, just like all other faiths. Those other
faiths are more mainstream which is why they seem less odd.
So several people on this thread are claiming that surrogate for Obama are and
will be attacking Romeny. So then I suppose it will be far for those that
support Obama to assume any comment made by an idiot with a microphone that
slams Obama is nothing more then a surrogate of Romney that Romeny secretly
supports? O’Donnell’s comments where way out of line but to try to
paint Obama and all liberals with the same brush as this guy seems like a really
desperate act to draw attention away from an honest debate about the issues.
Such a pity...I spent some good time and energy yesterday on these
boards defending the liberals as being friendlier to the Mormon church than
conservative Rick Santorum and his buddies.O'Donnell's
statements are both inaccurate and disgusting. I hope liberals and
conservatives would unite to get this man reprimanded. Could you imagine the
outrage if these statements were about Buddah or Muhammad? Any petitions I can
sign to protest? Please let me know.
This is way over the line. You could easily frame Catholicism or probably any
religion in similar terms. Is he asking Rick Santorum similar questions about
Since I don't watch O'Donnell often, I had to track down what he said.
Yeah, over-the-top. O'Donnell seems unaware that Romney is speaking to
the Republican base, that the religion vs govt. issue has been a favorite
rallying cry for quite some time, most recently evidenced by the uproar over
contraceptives. But I am also curious as to what O'Donnell's sources
are. re:MountanmanThere is no shortage of issues Obama can
use against Romney. He doesn't need to and wouldn't resort to
religion. Obviously Obama doesn't control the airwaves.
O'Donnell's anti-Mormon credentials are long. And his rants are so
over-the-top that they will gain no real credibility. I don't
think we can attribute this behavior to the Obama campaign anymore than we can
blame Romney for Limbaugh, Hannity and the gang. MSNBC is the liberal answer to
FOX. By the way, what ever happened to broadcast journalists with
integrity? Did they walk away with Walter Cronkite?
Readers may want to reflect to the past...Selective forgetfulness has
overtaken many Republicans...The LDS Church has, um... one might call it,
a "colorful past", to say the least.President Obama was, and still
is constantly being denigrated because of his religion.This may be just
the beginning of many issues which can fall under the classification of Karma
for the Republican party.
Lawrence O'Donnell is a self avowed leftist/socialist and a completely
vicious, vile person. He did the same thing four years ago and demanded, at
that time, that Mitt Romney apologize for all the "crimes" the Mormon
Church had committed. He will do ANYTHING to get Obama re-elected
and will do anything to try to destroy Romney. He has told lie after lie about
Mormons for years and is one of the producers of the TV show "Big
Love."Fortunately, MSNBC only has about five viewers, BUT even
MSNBC should fire anyone who displays such blatant religious bigotry. The Obama campaign won't directly attack the LDS Church, but they are
using their surrogates, like O'Donnell, to do their dirty work for them.
It's the Chigao way.Of course, Obama himself will deplore such
tactics, while his surrogates fan the flames of bigotry and hatred.This will be the dirtiest campaign in history.
Would O'Donnell still be on the air if he had said something derogatory
about Islam? I think not.
Well, what else can they run Obama’s campaign on? His record…..?
Their ONLY option, is personal attacks, even if they have to be manufactured!