@Bramabull ... Right, it doesn't mean you can't comment and offer
opinions. Semantic problem with the word 'hate' in the analogy. My
bad. Change it to "doesn't think much of football, football rules,
football fans, and never misses a game."
Enjoy your bliss and carry on!! Light purifies and cleanses, so let the shining
MoontanYour football analogy is pointless. I never said I hated the
church or religion. I enjoy talking about it and calling out those in the
religion who put down non-believers. Again, I don't have the church, I just
don't believe alot of the stuff it teaches. That doesn't mean I hate
it. I still go to church. I just can't buy what they are selling. That is
the complete honest truth. Take it or leave it. Again, that doesn't mean I
can't come and comment on things and state my opinion, right?
Re: Moontan, May I suggest you heed Paul's advice and have nothing to do
with us? There are exceptions,… ye should earnestly contend
for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.(Jude 1:3) I left the
Church when I became a Christian 25 years ago. … Except a man be born
again(another,509=from above), he cannot see the kingdom of God.(John 3:3). I
must continue, speaking the truth in love…—Christ(Eph 4:15). I still
have several active Mormon in-laws at least, which I love.
@cindybI left the church because I didn't believe in the Book of
Mormon or Joseph Smith being a prophet and frankly never had a testimony beyond
a maybe so I removed myself from a covenant I don't believe. "Certainly all who have been leaving in droves as you say, are not
enjoying a newfound life of happiness and fullfillment."Some are
though. I'm quite comfortable attending the Catholic church with a friend
of mine. Really if it weren't for a bitter 4 month long process to get my
name removed from the LDS membership lists I'd have been willing to visit
occasionally. The LDS church is obviously Christian, and I'm Christian, my
problem was that I don't believe any church is true so being officially
attached to one is overcommitting beyond what I'm comfortable with,
that's why I haven't gone through RCIA to get First Communion with the
@Sharrona ... May I suggest you heed Paul's advice and have nothing to do
with us? I am sure we won't mind. And if we find ourselves in need of
prayer, we'll find an 800 number somewhere. :)
@CindyB ... You're right, of course. The 'self' is at the root of
all dissatisfaction. The idea that the overwhelming majority of ex-Mormons
conducted a purely intellectual, dispassionate analysis of the
doctrines/practices of the Church, and departed, is far too improbable.
@cindyb--I have conversed with hundreds and hundreds of former
Mormons, and while your assessment about the reasons for them leaving might
describe a few of them and is certainly typical of the types of comments you
hear passed down the ward grapevines, the truth is that the overwhelming
majority of them did not leave due to the commandments.I would also
add, though, that most of them don't leave to find greater happiness. For
most, it comes down to intellectual honesty, even when it means sacrificing some
happiness. The top reasons I've seen for people who leave: 1. Doubts about
doctrines/practices/revelation that ultimately lead to a questioning of
faith/Christianity in general 2. Lack of interest in organized religion, even
while maintaining an interest in spirituality. 3. General mistrust of Church
leadership.I frequently hear people parrot the same things you have
written, but in my experience it's probably just an easy Sunday School
explanation: They started sinning. They lost the Spirit. They chose an
"easier" path. The reality is much more complicated.
RE; The Rock, I would like to see 14 million LDS people purchase t-shirts that
say: I Am A Mormon(And a Christian), And we all hit the malls and big box stores
at the same time on the same day. You remind of what Paul said,
There will be terrible times in the last days(Latter Day[Mormons])….
Verse 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do
with such people.(2 Tim 3: 1,5)The “Pale” of Christianity
Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox is united in the belief of the Tri-une God.
Freedom For All, When we consider people leaving in droves, you make it sound
like all people who are leaving are driven out by some terrible doctrine that
they didn't realize when they joined. My observations of people who have
left, including family members, has to do with the desire to live outside
obedience to the commandments like so much of the world. Living the law of
chastity, word of wisdom, and tithing are just a few things that become issues
of obedience. When people chose not to abide those laws, they are no longer
comfortable being active in the church. Certainly all who have been leaving in
droves as you say, are not enjoying a newfound life of happiness and
fullfillment. They are on a spiritual journey as we all are, and may again
embrace the restored gospel as they experience life without it for some time.
@LValfre ... if you are going to be an enlightened business leader, showing the
way to the ignorant masses who reject thought in preference to following,
you're going to have to spend a lot of time doing things other than
cruising religious message boards to tell everyone how misguided they are. @Cats ... insightful comment. @Bramabull re "Cats - Do
you really think it is the right thing to do to tell somebody to repent and
comeback and that they aren't happy??" Do you think it is right for an
anti/atheist to visit here and insult, degrade and criticize? Why is the latter
okay, but the former is unacceptable? A little one-sided, isn't it? As far as identifying unhappy people goes, it isn't difficult.
Critics who insult believers on this site remind me of the man who hated
football, and never missed a game. How happy is that?
@CTGuy30,I think you interpreted me wrong and now that I'm
rereading my comment it does infer I'm saying your life is mediocre which
is far from the truth. Please disregard the miscommunication. I am an aspiring
(working on) entrepreneur and I sometimes question if I have ADHD so interesting
comment about your boss! Although I'd like a luxury car I decided on
frugality as the only way to reach long-term goals including in business. I
think we're on the same page and I apologize for my comment.@watcher@75,"This day and ever more the LDS will remain
forefront in discussion. The knowledge of its doctrines will sweep the earth
preparing all for second coming of our Lord and Savior." - I
really don't think it's going to be looked upon positively when
newcomers Google it to learn more ... just my opinion. Outside of that though
your comment is really what drives me away from religion ... you have all the
answers but yet don't when it comes to questionable doctrines and
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints is a light to the whole world.
Many will come to it with a curiosity. Many will be drawn to it because it goes
contrary to worldly ways. Others will embrace it as the kingdom of God on earth.
This day and ever more the LDS will remain forefront in discussion. The
knowledge of its doctrines will sweep the earth preparing all for second coming
of our Lord and Savior.
I am always intrigued by the Mormons who want to "be an example" and
"share the truth" with others.Apparently it never occurs to
such people that others are the better example of humanity, and others have far
more "light and joy" than are found in your religion.
@ LValfre: And I appreciate your honesty as well. "aspiring
entrepreneur" "mediocre life"One can assume, aspiring means
you have not yet achieved entrepreneurship? Ah...my boss was an entrepeneur too.
Very life loving guy. VERY ADHD! I had to leave him a note to remind him of
things because his brain was "aspiring" all the time! I'm
assuming you meant I have a mediocre life, right? Who's to say? Is that
mediocre to your standards or mine? I'm sorry you assume that I simply
"follow a leader", but I also have to BE a leader. From since I was 12
years old, I have had various "leadership" responsibilities, leading
other young men, to leading a group of men, and in my business I get to chose my
the path that will be service my clients, I consider myself very innovative,
creative, and I never want to stop learning and teaching. My friend, I would say
that driving a mazda instead of a BMW is not mediocre to me.
"You don't have to be this unhappy you know. You can repent and come
back. It will be worth it. I promise."This type of arrogance is
what destroys the church as discussed in the BoM.
I would like to see 14 million LDS people purchase t-shirts that say:I Am A Mormon(And a Christian)And we all hit the malls and
big box stores at the same time on the same day."I am Mormon,
hear me roar, in numbers too big to ignore..."
@CTguy30,I commend your honesty. Ignorance is bliss and it's a
lot simpler to follow orders than lead. And I don't mean that in a
negative way at all. It's an easier life to just pick your leader and do
what you're told without thinking too much about it.Appreciate
your honesty.As an aspiring entrepreneur I take that same thought to
the workforce. I'd like to start businesses that give a portion to charity
and have a positive impact on this world. It's a lot easier to work for
someone your entire life until retirement than create and lead a new
organization that employs others. But ... I don't want to live a mediocre
LValfre - You're right there are many shades of grey in this
world...very complicated, indeed. No wonder we have so many people scrambling to
figure it all out, and ultimately settle for somewhere in the realms of being a
"good, but not religious person". I know I've stood in line at Cold
Stone trying to pick which mix-ins to pick out of all the choices. To us LDS,
seeing things in just black and white simplifies life, if there are only black
and white...we simply make the choice easier. Novel idea. Whether we are right
or wrong to the rest of the world, or if we simply choose to ignore the
"shades of grey" - which the color grey does indicate it contains,
depending on your shade of grey, a hint of black/darkness -we are happy to
share that with others. I have "opened my eyes", as you call it, and I
didn't like what I felt, so I "opened my heart" and truly saw some
"wonder"ful things in my life.
What this article fails to mention is that LDS members are leaving in droves. If
you google 'LDS members leaving in droves' you'll find articles
with Marlin K. Jensen acknowledging that church officials are aware that members
are leaving in droves. The LDS church claims 14.5 million members, however
sociologists estimate that approximately 5 million members are active and more
and more people are becoming inactive and leaving the church every day. In other
words, 1 in 3 people are active in church. Thats 33% retention. That
doesn't sound like a 'mormon moment' to me. So what
is it exactly that is driving people away in droves? What is it that these
people know or have learned that is driving them to leave the church? I know
many people who were very devout, served missions, raised kids, then BAM they
leave... in droves. So what is it that these people are discovering that's
driving them out? I don't think it is much of a mormon moment, but more
like a black eye. I'm just sayin'. Knowledge is power
@ Brahmabull,I already tried telling Cats that but got denied as
usual here on the DNews boards. They're not having doubts about their
doubts. They're simply acting as missionaries pushing their truth so
please be more understanding. It's not all black and white, member or
non-member, good and evil. There are shades of grey if you open up your eyes.
What this story fails to mention is that LDS members are leaving in droves.
Furthermore, sociologists estimate that about 1 in 3 LDS members are active in
church. Of the 14.5 million members that the church claims, only about 5 million
are active and church activity is declining. Yes the church is gaining
membership but only 1 in 3 people are sticking around. What do these people
leaving the church know that active LDS members don't? What is it driving
people out of the church in 'droves'? That doesn't sound much
like a 'mormon moment' to me. I'm just sayin'. Knowledge is
Cats - Do you really think it is the right thing to do to tell somebody to
repent and comeback and that they aren't happy?? You don't know this
person, so how can you say that? And with that reasoning then %99.9 of the earth
is unhappy because they aren't mormon?? Yeah maybe you should come back to
@ I M LDS 2- How do you know what a "mothership" would look like? It
looks like a ceiling of a building to me. Unless of course your trying to make
something of nothing.I think the Conference Center is wonderful, and
I think it is too small to handle the numbers that would like to attend. I
imagine a few years down the road, they'll need to build a different type
of facility to allow a greater number of people to attend or start rotating
locations where Conference is held. Which would be an incredible logistical
move, with the interpretars and the electronics required to pull off a world
I always think it is so sad that those who claim to want nothing to do with the
Church spend all their time reading articles and commenting about it constantly.
Wow, it looks like they can't quite leave it alone. Maybe they are having
doubts about their doubts.You don't have to be this unhappy you
know. You can repent and come back. It will be worth it. I promise.
Is it just me, or does the new Conference Center ceiling lok like a "mother
ship" hovering above the congregation? Who designed that?
@ HutteriteWell, you wanted enough to do with it that you read and
posted a comment:) Here's to many more wonderful and successful LDS General
Whatever it is, a moment or movement or whatever, I don't want a part of
it, and I'd like my public institutions to be free of it as well.