Comments about ‘Affordable Care Act decision has real implications for Taylorsville dad, daughter’

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Published: Monday, March 26 2012 5:49 p.m. MDT

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DN Subscriber
Cottonwood Heights, UT

The Millets are truly sympathetic people coping with burdens that most of us will (fortunately!) never deal with.

As the story indicates, the hospitals forgave nearly a quarter million dollars of bills, and they have received help from many other sources. he urrent system has ensured that they have received necessary care.

That is as it should be.

Socialist solutions to compel every citizen to involuntarily participate in a scheme to subsidize others is unacceptable in a free society. Freely given charity is an option, and one widely supported by the very generous people of Utah.

Having the IRS confiscate your earnings is not charity, it is theft under the threat of force. And, anyone who thinks that rationed healthcare run by the government will be better than what we have now is sadly mistaken.

Despite the Millet's sad story, Obamacare must be repealed!

Utah Businessman
Sandy, UT

Re: DN Subcriber

Thank you for your correct analysis of socialistic "solutions". It is true that our health care system is "broken", but it is broken because over the past 40+ years we have departed from the basic principles of personal responsibility and accountability. If we had not done that, the IHC bill would have been MUCH smaller--with employer-provided "full-coverage" health insurance and government programs, we have gotten away from the principles mentioned above that are the keys to controlling costs. As a result, health care costs are now in the stratosphere--we pay $25 for an aspirin tablet, $1,000 for a pint of blood, $1,500 PER HOUR for the operating room, etc.
As you have pointed out, voluntary help is the American way. The socialistic way is to FORCE people and companies to pay other people's bills--not only does this create in many people an "entitlement" mentality, but all of the laws, rules, regulations, enforcement, fraud, etc., make it extremely expensive, inefficient, cumbersome and wasteful--AND it violates property rights. The end result is well illustrated by what Greece and other European countries are now facing.

Schwa
South Jordan, UT

You may choose to think of taxes as theft under the threat of force. However the ability of congress to levy taxes is explicitly permitted by the Constitution. You may not like it, but it's perfectly legal.

The Affordable Care Act does tremendous things for real people. Its passage does not make anyone a Marxist, a fascist, a socialist, or a communist as the President has been conflictingly labeled numerous times. The only real problem people have with it is that it was a huge political victory for the President.

MyChildrensKeeper
Taylorsville, UT

Why does the news media and president keep lying about the so called affordable health care act? This ace does not guarantee health care or pay for it. They seem to forget to mention that 'insurance' may not pay for your health care and you are still stuck with paying for overcharges and fraudulent services.

The fact that this man has 1/4 million dollars of debt from the hospitals will always be a monkey on his back. He will never live free as every time he has a windfall gain from his job or lucky bet with a slot machine the state is now empowered to claim it and take it from him for his undisclosed medicaid loan debt with Utah. Utah Medicaid and hospitals do not forgive health care, they just put a claim on the rest of your life.

The reason we have expensive care is because of the fraud insurance creates in health care. There are no checks and balance's in the charges and costs of health care as long as insurance pays with no question asked. Government intervention and guarantee to pay doctors and IHC and hospitals is why we can't afford health care.

owlmaster2
Kaysville, UT

@DN Subscriber

I am always amazed at your comments.
I wonder if you'd mind reading these two LDS Scripture and weigh those with your comments. Mosiah 4:26 and Alma 1:27

Esquire
Springville, UT

A so-called "socialistic solution" is the only solution to this mess. Sorry folks, but the so-called "free enterprise" path has failed. The result is the highest costs and the worst results in the modern world. It makes a mockery of the concept of efficiency.

Conner Johnson

If the Supreme Court votes in favor of the affordable health care act, the president will have the Republicans to thank for dubbing it Obamacare. Americans don't want to pay taxes, plain and simple. It's been that way since the 1770's.

Sabrecat
South Jordan, UT

You are quite quick to say that the free enterprise modal of health care has failed Esquire, however the free enterprise model never existed. It was killed at birth by over regulation.

Sabrecat
South Jordan, UT

@owlmaster2

Having read both the verses you cite the comments that DN Subscriber make are perfectly in line with them. Neither King Benjamin nor Alma say that one is compelled to help their fellow man. That is a choice that every man must make for themselves.

I chose to make my charitable donations voluntarily and give to those causes that I find worthy. That decision is between me and my God, and I will be accountable to only Him.

Being compelled no matter how "worthy" the cause is nothing more than a usurpation of free will and we all know who's plan that best represents don't we....

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "Esquire" I don't think you understand capitalism, and how it can provide a cheaper alternative. First, if you cut the government out of the system, your typical insurance policy would be cut by $1000 or more. Next, you have the insurance companies that have new ideas to make care more affordable, but keep getting told no by the federal government.

There are tons of ways to save money, but the government wants to maintain their control.

If you bothered to look at the industries with the greatest problems right now, which are banking and health insurance, you also find that they are also the most regulated industries out there. I don't think that is just a coincidence.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@DN Subscriber and Utah Businessman

Our healthcare system is deplorable compared to the universal healthcare systems in Canada or France, and the heavily regulated private market system Germany has where costs are controlled.

@Redshirt
"First, if you cut the government out of the system, your typical insurance policy would be cut by $1000 or more."

That's not true. The US has the most expensive healthcare system in the world in terms of GDP. We need MORE government like Germany does where they heavily regulate the costs that can be charged. Less gov't is how we get the absurdly expensive prescription drug (as well as the rest of healthcare) with insurance companies that have 20-30% overhead while medicare has 3% overhead.

UT Brit
London, England

OK so the US health care system is the least regulated, most expensive (usually twice as expensive), least efficient and gives some of the worse results in the Western world. Are there still people saying this is the best health care in the world?

ouisc
Farmington, UT

There are things in US Healthcare very deserving of attention. We have the best medical innovation in the world, yet the US doesn't charge other countries for our innovation. You ever wonder why we pay so much for pharmaceuticals while Canada caps what they pay for the same drug? Because the US pays for the research and development, and Canada and other countries are free-loaders. Similar story with surgical procedures--we do the research and development, while the world generally awaits and implements our results. This is the Japanese automobile industry all over again--they took our ideas, at no cost, and improved our ideas better than we did. And we don't even get a thank you.

ouisc
Farmington, UT

Here's what concerns me about the "Affordable Healthcare Act." The very people who say our healthcare system is "broken" has decided to throw more and more money into a "broken" system. So, we can't afford our existing healthcare system, so let's just throw more and more money into this expensive system and see what we get.

The foresight of the Affordable Healthcare Act is embarassing. We simply can't force everyone to pay a certain amount of money and expect it to cover all of the expenses in our current, broken, expensive system. So many want to "just try it out," but they are like the mom that decided to raise their kids' allowance from $10/week to $1000/week--what happens to allowance when the money runs out?

We can't afford this Affordable Healthcare bandaid. Yes, it's noble--we need to achieve healthcare for all. But we MUST consider healthcare REFORM. We MUST identify medical waste, improve quality, and lower costs! We CAN afford healthcare for everyone, WITHOUT raising taxes and investing it into a "broken" system!

It's time to repeal, so we can finally start working on healthcare reform.

Shaun
Sandy, UT

@Red shirt. Banks need to be highly regulated because they are allowed to create money out of thin air. With that much power they need to be kept in check.

I do not think this health act is perfect but if you are favor of repealing it I also think you should be in favor of repealing the federal law that states a hospital must treat and stabilize you regardless of your ability to pay. Lets let people die from car accidents, diseases, and the such just because they can not afford to pay the hospital.

Also, hospitals may forgive debt to the individual but they make up for it by charging people that can afford it more for their services.

wyogirl
MOSCOW, ID

The part of the program that people complain about the most is the "individual mandate" which was first proposed by Republicans. They thought it was a great idea when it was their idea. Truth is, the Republican's won't say anything good about the ACA because they don't want a Democrate to look good, and the Democrats won't admit that the ideas came from Republican's because they don't want Republican's to look good. We are the poor fools who are stuck with soaring healthcare cost's.

I would like to see a very thorough non-biased look at States that now have an individual mandate (Romneycare)so that we can determine the pro's and con's. Has it worked for them?

A lot of the ACA components are good for families, and allow families to be responsible for their kids - why can't republicans admit that and use those components as a starting off point for an open (televised) creation of a bill that makes both parties look good b/c it actually does something useful

ouisc
Farmington, UT

"Romneycare" in Mass is way different from "Obamacare" for the U.S. Like it or not, medicine in the U.S. is a huge business, heavily dependent on competition in the free market. Apply new rules in Massachussettes, and they will do well or poorly depending on how they compete with their neighboring states. Many folks believe Massachussettes held up well against their competition.

"Obamacare" in the U.S. removes the one regulation we have for our medical costs--that of the market. There would be no market, and we would be brought down towards the level of healthcare available in Canada and Mexico. Sorry, but NO THANKS. And the quality of care would depend on who is in the white house, like the quality of our defense and the quality of healthcare received by our veterans.

Sorry, ACA. I want more. Affordable healthcare can be available for all. Repeal ACA so we can get started with reform.

Utah Girl
Vernal, UT

I totally agree that our health care system is very flawed, particularly the cost of everything. A simple aspirin does not cost $5, but that's what we get charged for it in a hospital...or more. A bandaid is not $1, either. And so on. I don't know the answers, but I do not believe the ACA is it. I have a real problem with government telling me that I have to get insurance by a certain date or pay a huge fine. This law is so complicated that it is unworkable. I don't know what we would do without health care, and I'm glad we have it available with my husband's job, as mine is part time and has no benefits. I just turned 65, so I also have Medicare, although I don't know how that works yet.

the truth
Holladay, UT

The reason health care costs are high is NOT because of insurance companies,

but because government regulation, that REQUIRES all patients to taken care of, mny of whihc do not pay thoer bills,

thus necessitating them to raise prices to cover the thier expenses,

hospitials are not cost free,

they have pay nurses, technicians, cafeteria workers reception and administration, accounting and billing, janitors, etc etc etc

they do not work for free,

they must buy medical supplies, from bandages to catheters to medicine,

they are not free,

they must buy food, they muss buy supplies for janitors, officve supplies and so on,

none of that is free,

The 'affordable Care Act' does not fix any of this,

They ONLY way government will control costs will be to deny, restrict and regulate care,

the same that is done in other countries,

while it may broaden access to care (even though all can get short term emergency care now) it lowers the quality of care over all, create waiting lists and long wait times to get care, limiting available supplies, destroying incentive to work in healthcare.

while some may think socialized medicine is wonderful, they ignore those hurt by socialistic systems.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "atl134" you are really falling for the lie that the liberal media has perpetuated. First of all, in Germany their doctors are underpaid for the services they rendered. You also ignore the simple fact that in the nations where they spend a lower %GDP in comparison to the US they RATION who gets how much care. Read "The Voters Must Decide:
Stop Rationing Health Care!" at the Shiller Institute. You know that when they say things like "Prof. Jörg-Dietrich Hoppe, president of the German Medical Association, deliberately unleashed a heated controversy when he pointed out that, in reality, for quite some time now, there has been inadequate provisioning, and rationing, of health care in Germany."

From the Brittish Journal of Medicine's article "Germany at centre of rationing row as budget in crisis" we read that german officials have "asked the government to abstain from operations in elderly patients older than 75." In other words, rather than you telling Grandma you can't afford to help, it is the government saying that she costs too much.

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