Quantcast
Utah

Mormon church, state and alcohol laws to mix in federal courtroom

Comments

Return To Article
  • Sarah Nichole West Jordan, UT
    March 29, 2012 12:29 a.m.

    Our state legislature - and those of other states - meet fairly regularly with representatives from all major faiths in the area. They always get their opinion when it comes to social issues. It's up to the legislature to decide whether or not they'll be swayed by that opinion. Sometimes they are, and sometimes they aren't. This isn't anything new, and it happens in every state in the union.

  • A voice of Reason Salt Lake City, UT
    March 27, 2012 3:32 p.m.

    RedShirt,

    AMEN!

    Those fighting religious expression are trying to impose their own rule on everyone else by prejudicially restricting peaceably assembling and free speech. Restricting religion destroys free-thought to give anti-religious persons power to enforce their rule. It is a tyranny of the minority.

    Suppose they succeed:

    If the LDS Church in Utah said nothing, but the entire LDS population of this state voted their opinion- I'm sure these critics would be violently more upset than they are now, claiming they are even more oppressed, and so on. These critics should be thankful. The LDS Church is trying to offer balance, not actual LDS doctrine. Cause if I voted my actual beliefs, I would suggest prohibition authorized democratically by the people as I do not believe drug/alcohol use is a human right but a threat to free society.

    I agree with the church suggesting balance to accommodate all people. But that tolerance won't extend to those fighting freedom to impose their views, their rule- against democracy. Some may think they can corner others into silence, but ultimately that doctrine to fight freedom will be their own undoing.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    March 27, 2012 8:58 a.m.

    To "silo" congratulations, you just realized that on a state level you could implement Sharia Law or socialism, as long as you don't violate the Constitution.

    To "LValfre" you mean laws such as the fabled "separation of church and state" which was created by athiests and anti-thiests.

    You also have the laws and policies that have removed prayer from schools, removal of the 10 commandments from courthouses, and the current fight over allowing crosses to mark where state troopers have died.

    It sure seems like the athiests and anti-thiests are pushing their adgenda through the legal system either through laws being made or being ruled into existance.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 27, 2012 5:58 a.m.

    Re: Lane Myer Salt Lake City, UT 3:27 p.m. March 26, 2012
    "There shall be no union of Church and State, nor shall any church dominate the State or interfere with its functions."

    Nothing in Article I, Section 4 of our Utah State Constitution limits the LDS Church's 1st Amendment right to free speech. There is nothing sinister about have a full time lobbyist at the legislature as long as he, or she, is properly registered and obeys the rules set forth for all lobbyists.

    Sorry but there is no smoking gun here.

  • What in Tucket? Provo, UT
    March 26, 2012 7:20 p.m.

    Alcohol is rated as the worst of the drugs. On a scale of 1:10 it is rated an 8 vs cocaine and heroin 6. This is not a religious issue. We want as little alcohol consumed as possible. Alcohol kills the drinker and those within range of his car. Many states have liquor laws. We do not need liquor in ever store to attract business.

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    March 26, 2012 4:54 p.m.

    So much black and white reasoning on this thread. What ever happened to reasonable laws based on a legitimate interest in protecting society but limited so as not to needlessly infringe on individual freedoms. there is a middle ground people.

  • Lane Myer Salt Lake City, UT
    March 26, 2012 3:27 p.m.

    This is Article I, Section 4 of our Utah State Constitution:

    . "There shall be no union of Church and State, nor shall any church dominate the State or interfere with its functions. "

    It does not state that the church can dominate or interfere when it feels it is a moral issue! Nor by lobbying the legislature. Why DOES the church have a full time lobbyist at the legislature? Does anyone know? Does any other church have a lobbyist?

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    March 26, 2012 2:21 p.m.

    Lets just all go back to the rules established by the progressives in 1920. LOL. It was a republican that led the efforts to repeal the 18th amendment.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 26, 2012 1:29 p.m.

    Re: LValfre CHICAGO, IL 12:48 p.m. March 26, 2012
    "as if alcohol was some forbidden pornography you didn't want your children to see."

    Ummm .... the federal government agrees with us backwood folks here in Utah that have tough laws against possession of child porn. Probably the same laws that restrict your freedoms there in Illinois. You can't blame the Mormons for the restrictions on your freedoms in a state that currently has two ex-governors serving time in prison at the same time.

  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    March 26, 2012 12:48 p.m.

    "@Rifleman

    Here in Utah we don't care if you want to drink yourself under the table but we do care if you want to drive drunk and put the lives of everyone around you on the highway at risk."

    Great and that's why it's illegal to drive while under the influence. What's your point?

    Doesn't change the fact that the LDS church has gotten so far involved in the laws of Utah that people had to drink behind curtains for decades as if alcohol was some forbidden pornography you didn't want your children to see.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 26, 2012 12:23 p.m.

    Re: LValfre CHICAGO, IL 11:23 a.m. March 26, 2012
    "But I am for freedom ... freedom from religious control."

    Under our republic form of government all the people have a share in rule. Here in Utah we don't care if you want to drink yourself under the table but we do care if you want to drive drunk and put the lives of everyone around you on the highway at risk.

    They made the same argument here about smoking in public buildings a while back ..... and now I enjoy the freedom of not being forced to breath 2nd hand tobacco smoke.

  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    March 26, 2012 11:23 a.m.

    "Leesha
    Kearns, UT
    LValfre:
    I don't get it. So you are for more opportunistic underage drinking and more DUI's?
    Did you read the article?

    Absolutely not. But I am for freedom ... freedom from politicians, freedom from government control, freedom from religious control. This is an example of religion, the LDS church, once again having strong control of the politics and laws of Utah. It's a sham! That's the opposite of what America is yet your 'politically neutral' church continually gets involved.

  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    March 26, 2012 11:19 a.m.

    "RedShirt
    USS Enterprise, UT
    ok liberals, you complain about people enacting laws that conform to the LDS church, but do you complain about the secular humanists (atheists and anti-theists) who push through laws that conform to their religious beliefs?"

    What laws? Please expand. Forgive me if I'm being ignorant but most laws that the believers and non-believers argue about is the right to teach religion in public schools, have religious statues and figures in state buildings, etc.

    As far as pushing through laws that conform to religious beliefs, of which atheists have NO religious beliefs, that is purely a Christian/theist thing.

    Also ... not all atheists are liberals or left side. So stop the generalizations ... You Utahn's are just ridiculous with how narrow you think about left vs right, atheist vs this, .... we're all the same to you but really we're all individuals.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 26, 2012 11:19 a.m.

    Re: OJF64 8:13 p.m. March 25, 2012
    "It's about time someone challenged the LDS church and the influence it has on the government."

    Are you suggesting that the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution doesn't apply to religious organizations? Perhaps those who believe in the teachings of the LDS Church should be prohibited from holding public office. Makes perfect sense ..... if you're a bigot.

  • raybies Layton, UT
    March 26, 2012 7:52 a.m.

    Regardless of religious inclinations, the consumption of alcohol SHOULD be highly regulated.

    The sad fact is that we as a country believe that it's okay to kill innocent people so that society as a whole can enjoy their liquor. That's the price we pay for lenient laws on alcohol consumption.

    Whenever lives are at stake, one should weigh the costs, and ultimately can be regulated by government. The state of Utah has sided with caution and preserving human life. Alcohol abuse is a trigger for spouse abuse, domestic violence, vandalism, destruction of private property, DUIs, youth and college age drinking that causes a great deal of waste and can destroy a life before it has a chance to even know what life's like.

  • silo Sandy, UT
    March 26, 2012 12:35 a.m.

    Congratulations Redshirt...you just defended shari law and socialism in one post. And you claim to be conservative?

  • OJF64 Sandy, UT
    March 25, 2012 8:13 p.m.

    It's about time someone challenged the LDS church and the influence it has on the government.

  • Ronald Mortensen Bountiful, Utah
    March 25, 2012 6:43 p.m.

    The Church's lobbyists always say that they only are in the back hallways of the legislature in order to answer questions and to help legislators understand what the Church's position is on a certain issue.

    That was the position the Church's lobbyists took on HB116. However, according to a post by Senator Curt Bramble on Facebook, the Church actually helped draft the legislation.

    Senator Bramble was writing in response to an earlier post that said: HB116 was not sponsored by the LDS Church, no matter how you try to fly it. There is no First Presidency seal on it.

    In response, Sen. Bramble posted the following:

    Curt Bramble As for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints involvement with HB 116, I was there, Mr. XXXX. You were not. I worked to draft the legislation with them. I don’t know how to be more clear than that.

    The post was quickly removed but screen shots of the thread were taken and saved.

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    March 25, 2012 5:31 p.m.

    Well, we could ban the hospitality industry!

    Aw Dang, that won't work. People do actually eat, drink and sleep while away from home.

    Okay, just put a huge tax on booze. Take all the profit away. Who is going to argue against sin taxes? The state clearly has the authority to do that.

  • Leesha Kearns, UT
    March 25, 2012 4:36 p.m.

    LValfre:
    I don't get it. So you are for more opportunistic underage drinking and more DUI's?
    Did you read the article?

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    March 25, 2012 2:22 p.m.

    I do not think that the hierarchy @ 50 E N Temple are meddling.

    What I do think is; there a bunch of narrow-minded busy bodies in the legislature trying to enforce their interpretation of God's will.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    March 25, 2012 1:50 p.m.

    ok liberals, you complain about people enacting laws that conform to the LDS church, but do you complain about the secular humanists (atheists and anti-theists) who push through laws that conform to their religious beliefs?

    The biggest issue that I have with the complainers is this. If the government is a reflection of the will of the people who vote for their representatives, what do you expect to happen in a state where a majority of people share the same religious beliefs? Would you be surprised if the New England states passed laws that reflected Catholic teachings, or would you be shocked with some of the southern states voted for laws that reflected Southern Baptist teachings.

    Let me restate this again. You are complaining about the Utah Legislature reflecting the teachings and values of a majority of the state's population.

  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    March 25, 2012 9:50 a.m.

    Honestly ... the fact that LDS has such a strong influence in Utah is an example to the rest of the nation what can happen when church and state are practically paired.

    The nation's laughing ... non-LDS Utah residents are crying ... this is in direct opposition to why this country was founded.

    Religious Freedom!

  • Conner Johnson
    March 25, 2012 9:12 a.m.

    Stop Fracking with my water supply, and let the people drink. End the oppression in this great state!!! And stop scanning my ID every time I want a beer!!!

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    March 25, 2012 9:09 a.m.

    These are ingredients that will never mix. Get the church out of the equation.

  • danaslc Kearns, UT
    March 25, 2012 8:54 a.m.

    You bet the Mormon church dictates our liquor laws. They run this state Now I would like to see the Mormon Church dictate that Utah not be a Sanctuary City for Illegal Immigrants and dictate that we will not tolerate Drugs being sold to our children by Drug Cartels.

  • A voice of Reason Salt Lake City, UT
    March 25, 2012 1:57 a.m.

    The claim here is that giving opinion is putting people "under pressure". Furthermore, the LDS Church doesn't promote its alcohol doctrine but balance for every citizens interests.

    "Legislative leaders said Wednesday that the LDS Church's new statement on alcohol makes it easier to consider... to change the state's liquor laws."

    Maybe the drinking minority forgot that "makes it easier" doesn't mean "under pressure", but the exact opposite. People aren't arguing for freedom, but convenience at the expense of others who without such protective laws would suffer. Freedom and convenience are not the same thing.

    -------

    From the LDS Newsroom:

    "One of the functions of religious leaders in a democracy is to add their moral voice to issues of public importance. This is why churches take positions on social issues."

    The Church supports "reasonable regulations to (1) limit overconsumption, (2) reduce impaired driving and (3) work to eliminate underage drinking." That we should all be trying to "allow individual freedom of choice while preserving Utah’s proven positive health and safety record".

    Saying 'allow freedom while protecting people' isn't pressure; it's responsible and the most possible balanced opinion. Disputing such balanced public interest is simply condescending.