I think Santorum, and Dozier, should read the Book of Mormon from cover to
cover, with real intent to discover what it really says, then take some time to
ponder its contents, and then approach our Heavenly Father humbly in prayer and
ask God with real intent whether or not it's true. If they did that,
I think they'd be a bit more thoughtful in their representation of LDS beliefs.
@Capella ... Wrong again: your post saw daylight. First you suggest we edit
original documents to prove we aren't racist. If we do, however, as in your
Granny's BoM, you still criticize. Telling, that. Unless you meant to put 'why'
between 'then' and 'edit'. If so, the answer to 'why' is 'for clarification.'
Which 'obvious doctrines' of the Church are racist? They slipped by
me unnoticed. I'm looking for a formal doctrine here, one which disparages all
non-white members (who just happen to be the majority of the Church). Point out
something official which will convince me that I need not invite a black
neighbor to a ward meeting. Show me something that says in 2012 the LDS Church
frowns on non-white members, and I'll leave it right now. Right. You
can't. You can indeed harken back decades to find people/statements to
criticize, but what does that prove? Why is it that only in the Church do anti's
expect perfection, and in no other area of human endeavor? Imperfection is
recognized and allowed in all Mankind does ... except in the LDS Church. That's flawed thinking, and very insightful into the motives of critics.
If you aren't racist, then edit your original doctrines and revelations that
appear so. Books of Mormon have been editted from Joseph's original
"translation". They now read that upon conversion the Lamanite's dark
skin will become "pure and delightsome". My Granny's BoM reads
"white and delightsome". I know what we were taught as kids. Why
aren't you quoting your own scriptures and defending what God told Moroni,
Mormon, Joseph, et al?Instead there's an outcry for Santorum to call
out a citizen who has called out an organization's obvious doctrines.
Sheesh.And this post won't see daylight because the facts are too
The Pastor is right. There are numerous statements from church leadership.If anyone needs to make a statement, its the leadership. They need to denounce
those past statements.
There is a comment that skin was black , but most Mormon scholars equate that
with a "dark" or evil character not skin color. We certainly enjoy our
neighbors and friend with various skin tones and I have never heard in 50 plus
years of membership a racist comment from podium of ward, stake meetings or
Mormons were one of the first groups in America, to suffer persecution because
of favoritism toward black people.Joseph Smith published in 1844:
Petition, also, ye goodly inhabitants of the slave states, your
legislators to abolish slavery by the year 1850. Pray Congress to pay every man
a reasonable price for his slaves. Break off the shackles from the poor black
man, and hire him to labor like other human beings; for an hour of virtuous
liberty is worth a whole eternity of bondage. (Church History Vol. III, p. XXVI)
Belief that slaves should be freed, was one of the reasons Mormons
were killed, driven from homes, and homes burned; with other injustices heaped
on them (ironically in a nation established by those seeking freedom of religion
and escape from tyranny). Mormons had to flee West, for peace to live and
worship God as they chose. Saying that Mormons look down on black
Americans is to speak wrongly. ItÂs no more the truth than to say Jesus
looked down on the Canaanites when he refused to help the woman from Canaan,
saying He was sent only to the House of Israel. (Matthew 15: 22-28).
It is doubtful that Rick Santorum will disavow the remarks make by reverend
Dozier because his entire campaign and it's ascendancy is driven by these
sentiments articulated by reverend Dozier. The largest block of voters against
Mitt Romney are those who feel that one's religion is very important to choosing
a candidate. In other words, these are anti-Mormon bigots who would not vote for
a Mormon no matter what. In the areas of the country where these sentiments and
voting pattern are high, Mitt Romney loses to Santorum or Gingrich. Where they
are low, he wins.
@HotGlobe Re..."Until LDS disavows Brigham Young, why should Santorum
disavow pastor Dozier?"Because Brigham Young has been dead a
good while, as has those of his generation, but Santorum and Dozier are still
with us, the latter poisoning the political discourse. Think of it
like this: until Western democracies denounce Atilla the Hun, why should North
Korea denounce Communism? It just doesn't work.
@Hot, The LDS Church has condemned all racism, past and present, within the
Church and without, they have explained MANY times, that they believe these
explanations for the ban are wrong. LDS do not believe in infallible leaders.
Even the racism of our first Church President (Peter) is probably included in
this; words like "unclean" were applied to other races, blacks and
whites. And, I don't believe all of Brigham's race curses were completely
racist: he called upon the Christian congress to "...pass a law that slaves
should not be abused as they have been...For their abuse...the whites will be
cursed..."From Black lds: BY also said: "we [have] one of
the best Elders an African in Lowel.." One Black Elder complained of
racial discrimination.. President Young explained that race should not be the
issue. Praising Walker Lewis as an example, Young suggested "ItÂs
nothing to do with the blood for [from] one blood has God made all flesh"
and later added "we don't care about the color." Kat: The
LDS Church condemned the Baptisms, not sure who you want Romney to condemn: the
Church, Helen, or others hacking the computer system, to enter forbidden names?
The Church of Jesus Christ of LDS was unique among others on their progressive
pro-Black stances. Both Santorum and Dozier's Church had and have
much more serious racial issues. Obama's Congregationalists were
also some of the most progressive. Congregationalists claim to be first in
America to ordain a Black man to Priesthood in a white Church (before Catholics,
Methodists etc).Unfortunately, according to the naacp this man (Haynes,
part Black) was run offwhen they found out he was Black. Shortly after
this Mormons were ordainingfull Blacks. Anti-Mormons in the 19th
Century attacked Mormons for teaching equality. The ban came later,
for unknown reasons. Some leaders thought it was revelation (49) others said it
was "not fully known." Like Peter, they wanted direction before
altering. @Midvaliean, search FAIRlds, search there for Book of
Mormon Lamanite Curse see: "If skin color is the issue, then a single
Lamanite with a group of Nephites should be easy to spot. But, in this case, it
is not." Lehi was of Manasseh, they were not white. Joseph married an
Egyptian. Egyptians were of Ham in Abraham's lifetime (Hagar?) but Asenat is
thought to have been related to "pure Mongolian Turks" (Central Asians).
So - Mormon Voices is calling for Santorum to disavow a pastor whose view Mormon
Voices disagrees with - and this is okay - but when people called on Romney to
disavow the proxy baptisms of Jews - an act which violated LDS Church policy -
those calling for that disavowment were somehow wrong......hmmm......
"LDS Church president Gordon B. Hinckley, ...declared that no man who makes
disparaging remarks concerning those of another race can consider himself a true
disciple of Christ." Ok, good point, but how does this not apply
to someone who said, "You see some classes of the human family that are
black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and
seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is
generally bestowed upon mankind."Until LDS disavows Brigham
Young, why should Santorum disavow pastor Dozier?
@JM They most certainly differentiate skin color in the BoM. The Nephites
were of Jewish decent. They were not native Americans. Whether or not its
racist is up for interpretation, but what you said JM is not true. I've read
the BoM a dozen times, and its pretty explicite. Note the language concerning
skin color has been edited and changed since the first printing of the BoM.
One issue Dozier has (besides misquoting LDS) is that he misunderstands the
BofM. Anti-Mormons tend to read LDS scriptures from a 19th Century point of
view, then they condemn Brigham Young etc, for doing so, even though LDS lived
in the 19th century, and were surrounded by mainstream Christians with truly
serious anti-Semitic and racial issues. People donÂt know that most
Mormons are probably dark skinned and that ancient Book of Mormon people would
not have understood our modern racism issues. If there WERE any racism in the
Book it would be that white Europeans are called ÂgentilesÂ who lack
charity and must seek to be adopted by Native Americans. Ancient
dark skinned writers used symbolic language when describing religiosity (see
wiki: white skins) and those who wrote the BofM were probably all dark skinned,
and were definitely one race, so they couldnt be racist. They couldn't tell the
difference between a Lamanite or Nephite except by language and perhaps dress.
If anyone is a chosen people in the BofM it is the dark skinned Native Americans
who are descended from Joseph and his Egyptian wife (of Ham, Asia?).
It's interesting that Dozier is a Baptist (the DN won't let me post what MLK had
to say about them,so...or was it the other one rejected?? On symbolic language)
but he is a Santorum supporter, and Santorum can get away with this:
"Catholic leaders issued a letter Friday to GOP presidential candidates
Newt...Santorum...urging them Âto stop perpetuating ugly racial stereotypes
on the campaign trail.(I hope these same good Catholic leaders will
also speak out against the anti-Mormon prejudice of Dozier and everyone else :
)) And, it's also interesting that Santorum's Church leaders can get
away with saying this recently: search whitewash genocide by Thomas Dahlheimer,
and that the United Nations conference on racism determined that the racism in
non-LDS mainstream Christianity is responsible for the enslavement and genocide
of at least 90 million people. True, Brigham and others
believed some ideas taught by mainstream Christians (including Dozier and
Santorum's Churches (and, not to exclude: atheists, the gay community, Muslims,
etc have serious racial issues also but...) but BYoung also called on Congress
to protect Blacks from abuse by Dozier's Church, and said whites were cursed,
for their mistreatment of minorities. Now they say.... "Mormons are..."
Political candidates could spend all day disavowing people who "speak for
them." Santorum is not concerned about Utah. They will vote Rommney,
unless he wins the nomination, in which case they will vote for him.
What an elementary school response.If there is no basis for
accusations that the Church is racist (such as scriptures that equate dark skin
with curses by God), then address those facts.Otherwise, this
response by this wannabe LdS anti defamation league is merely "I know you
are, but what am I?"C'mon, you can do better than that!