Comments about ‘MormonVoices calls for Santorum to disavow pastor’

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Published: Tuesday, March 13 2012 5:28 p.m. MDT

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A Scientist
Provo, UT

What an elementary school response.

If there is no basis for accusations that the Church is racist (such as scriptures that equate dark skin with curses by God), then address those facts.

Otherwise, this response by this wannabe LdS anti defamation league is merely "I know you are, but what am I?"

C'mon, you can do better than that!

Midvaliean
MIDVALE, UT

Political candidates could spend all day disavowing people who "speak for them." Santorum is not concerned about Utah. They will vote Rommney, unless he wins the nomination, in which case they will vote for him.

JM
Lehi, UT

It's interesting that Dozier is a Baptist (the DN won't let me post what MLK had to say about them,so...or was it the other one rejected?? On symbolic language) but he is a Santorum supporter, and Santorum can get away with this: "Catholic leaders issued a letter Friday to GOP presidential candidates Newt...Santorum...urging them Âto stop perpetuating ugly racial stereotypes on the campaign trail.

(I hope these same good Catholic leaders will also speak out against the anti-Mormon prejudice of Dozier and everyone else : ))

And, it's also interesting that Santorum's Church leaders can get away with saying this recently: search whitewash genocide by Thomas Dahlheimer, and that the United Nations conference on racism determined that the racism in non-LDS mainstream Christianity is responsible for the enslavement and genocide of at least 90 million people.


True, Brigham and others believed some ideas taught by mainstream Christians (including Dozier and Santorum's Churches (and, not to exclude: atheists, the gay community, Muslims, etc have serious racial issues also but...) but BYoung also called on Congress to protect Blacks from abuse by Dozier's Church, and said whites were cursed, for their mistreatment of minorities. Now they say.... "Mormons are..." : )

JM
Lehi, UT

One issue Dozier has (besides misquoting LDS) is that he misunderstands the BofM. Anti-Mormons tend to read LDS scriptures from a 19th Century point of view, then they condemn Brigham Young etc, for doing so, even though LDS lived in the 19th century, and were surrounded by mainstream Christians with truly serious anti-Semitic and racial issues.
People donÂt know that most Mormons are probably dark skinned and that ancient Book of Mormon people would not have understood our modern racism issues. If there WERE any racism in the Book it would be that white Europeans are called Âgentiles who lack charity and must seek to be adopted by Native Americans.

Ancient dark skinned writers used symbolic language when describing religiosity (see wiki: white skins) and those who wrote the BofM were probably all dark skinned, and were definitely one race, so they couldnt be racist. They couldn't tell the difference between a Lamanite or Nephite except by language and perhaps dress. If anyone is a chosen people in the BofM it is the dark skinned Native Americans who are descended from Joseph and his Egyptian wife (of Ham, Asia?).

Midvaliean
MIDVALE, UT

@JM
They most certainly differentiate skin color in the BoM. The Nephites were of Jewish decent. They were not native Americans. Whether or not its racist is up for interpretation, but what you said JM is not true. I've read the BoM a dozen times, and its pretty explicite. Note the language concerning skin color has been edited and changed since the first printing of the BoM.

HotGlobe
SAN RAFAEL, CA

"LDS Church president Gordon B. Hinckley, ...declared that no man who makes disparaging remarks concerning those of another race can consider himself a true disciple of Christ."

Ok, good point, but how does this not apply to someone who said, "You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind."

Until LDS disavows Brigham Young, why should Santorum disavow pastor Dozier?

Kalindra
Salt Lake City, Utah

So - Mormon Voices is calling for Santorum to disavow a pastor whose view Mormon Voices disagrees with - and this is okay - but when people called on Romney to disavow the proxy baptisms of Jews - an act which violated LDS Church policy - those calling for that disavowment were somehow wrong......

hmmm......

JM
Lehi, UT

The Church of Jesus Christ of LDS was unique among others on their progressive pro-Black stances.

Both Santorum and Dozier's Church had and have much more serious racial issues.

Obama's Congregationalists were also some of the most progressive. Congregationalists claim to be first in America to ordain a Black man to Priesthood in a white Church (before Catholics, Methodists etc).
Unfortunately, according to the naacp this man (Haynes, part Black) was run off
when they found out he was Black. Shortly after this Mormons were ordaining
full Blacks.
Anti-Mormons in the 19th Century attacked Mormons for teaching equality.

The ban came later, for unknown reasons. Some leaders thought it was revelation (49) others said it was "not fully known." Like Peter, they wanted direction before altering.

@Midvaliean, search FAIRlds, search there for Book of Mormon Lamanite Curse see: "If skin color is the issue, then a single Lamanite with a group of Nephites should be easy to spot. But, in this case, it is not." Lehi was of Manasseh, they were not white. Joseph married an Egyptian. Egyptians were of Ham in Abraham's lifetime (Hagar?) but Asenat is thought to have been related to "pure Mongolian Turks" (Central Asians).

JM
Lehi, UT

@Hot, The LDS Church has condemned all racism, past and present, within the Church and without, they have explained MANY times, that they believe these explanations for the ban are wrong. LDS do not believe in infallible leaders. Even the racism of our first Church President (Peter) is probably included in this; words like "unclean" were applied to other races, blacks and whites.
And, I don't believe all of Brigham's race curses were completely racist: he called upon the Christian congress to "...pass a law that slaves should not be abused as they have been...For their abuse...the whites will be cursed..."
From Black lds:
BY also said: "we [have] one of the best Elders an African in Lowel.."
One Black Elder complained of racial discrimination.. President Young explained that race should not be the issue. Praising Walker Lewis as an example, Young suggested "ItÂs nothing to do with the blood for [from] one blood has God made all flesh" and later added "we don't care about the color."

Kat: The LDS Church condemned the Baptisms, not sure who you want Romney to condemn: the Church, Helen, or others hacking the computer system, to enter forbidden names?

Moontan
Roanoke, VA

@HotGlobe Re..."Until LDS disavows Brigham Young, why should Santorum disavow pastor Dozier?"

Because Brigham Young has been dead a good while, as has those of his generation, but Santorum and Dozier are still with us, the latter poisoning the political discourse.

Think of it like this: until Western democracies denounce Atilla the Hun, why should North Korea denounce Communism? It just doesn't work.

coleman51
Orem, UT

It is doubtful that Rick Santorum will disavow the remarks make by reverend Dozier because his entire campaign and it's ascendancy is driven by these sentiments articulated by reverend Dozier. The largest block of voters against Mitt Romney are those who feel that one's religion is very important to choosing a candidate. In other words, these are anti-Mormon bigots who would not vote for a Mormon no matter what. In the areas of the country where these sentiments and voting pattern are high, Mitt Romney loses to Santorum or Gingrich. Where they are low, he wins.

Moracle
Blackshear, GA

Mormons were one of the first groups in America, to suffer persecution because of favoritism toward black people.

Joseph Smith published in 1844:

Petition, also, ye goodly inhabitants of the slave states, your legislators to abolish slavery by the year 1850. Pray Congress to pay every man a reasonable price for his slaves. Break off the shackles from the poor black man, and hire him to labor like other human beings; for an hour of virtuous liberty is worth a whole eternity of bondage. (Church History Vol. III, p. XXVI)

Belief that slaves should be freed, was one of the reasons Mormons were killed, driven from homes, and homes burned; with other injustices heaped on them (ironically in a nation established by those seeking freedom of religion and escape from tyranny). Mormons had to flee West, for peace to live and worship God as they chose.

Saying that Mormons look down on black Americans is to speak wrongly. ItÂs no more the truth than to say Jesus looked down on the Canaanites when he refused to help the woman from Canaan, saying He was sent only to the House of Israel. (Matthew 15: 22-28).

What in Tucket?
Provo, UT

There is a comment that skin was black , but most Mormon scholars equate that with a "dark" or evil character not skin color. We certainly enjoy our neighbors and friend with various skin tones and I have never heard in 50 plus years of membership a racist comment from podium of ward, stake meetings or general conference.

Ernest T. Bass
Bountiful, UT

The Pastor is right. There are numerous statements from church leadership.
If anyone needs to make a statement, its the leadership. They need to denounce those past statements.

Capella
Bakersfield, CA

If you aren't racist, then edit your original doctrines and revelations that appear so. Books of Mormon have been editted from Joseph's original "translation". They now read that upon conversion the Lamanite's dark skin will become "pure and delightsome". My Granny's BoM reads "white and delightsome". I know what we were taught as kids. Why aren't you quoting your own scriptures and defending what God told Moroni, Mormon, Joseph, et al?

Instead there's an outcry for Santorum to call out a citizen who has called out an organization's obvious doctrines. Sheesh.

And this post won't see daylight because the facts are too convicting.

Moontan
Roanoke, VA

@Capella ... Wrong again: your post saw daylight. First you suggest we edit original documents to prove we aren't racist. If we do, however, as in your Granny's BoM, you still criticize. Telling, that. Unless you meant to put 'why' between 'then' and 'edit'. If so, the answer to 'why' is 'for clarification.'

Which 'obvious doctrines' of the Church are racist? They slipped by me unnoticed. I'm looking for a formal doctrine here, one which disparages all non-white members (who just happen to be the majority of the Church). Point out something official which will convince me that I need not invite a black neighbor to a ward meeting. Show me something that says in 2012 the LDS Church frowns on non-white members, and I'll leave it right now.

Right. You can't. You can indeed harken back decades to find people/statements to criticize, but what does that prove? Why is it that only in the Church do anti's expect perfection, and in no other area of human endeavor? Imperfection is recognized and allowed in all Mankind does ... except in the LDS Church.

That's flawed thinking, and very insightful into the motives of critics.

raybies
Layton, UT

I think Santorum, and Dozier, should read the Book of Mormon from cover to cover, with real intent to discover what it really says, then take some time to ponder its contents, and then approach our Heavenly Father humbly in prayer and ask God with real intent whether or not it's true.

If they did that, I think they'd be a bit more thoughtful in their representation of LDS beliefs.

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