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Comments about ‘Romney wins in Michigan, Arizona a 'moral victory'’

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Published: Tuesday, Feb. 28 2012 10:37 p.m. MST

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LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

It appears Mitt Romney's policy of "Let them fail" to the Auto industry isn't going over so well in home state of Michigan.

Flip-flopping comes with a price,
That price is called "Karma".

Utah Girl
Vernal, UT

So, why didn't Ford Motors need a bailout? They seem to have managed OK without it. The problem with bailouts is the extreme cost of them, plus government control. A managed bankruptcy would have accomplished the same thing without giving so much power to the union and to the government. GM had to retire many of its lines of automobiles, like Pontiac and Oldsmobile, and I forget what else. I'm sure Chrysler had to do something similar. Streamlining production and focusing on doing well with a few models could have been accomplished through bankruptcy, too.

Sometimes Romney's blunt way of saying things creates misunderstanding, and the news media and people, latch onto the "sound bites" like a dog on a bone, without trying to see the bigger picture.

Having Democrats vote in a Republican Primary is just wrong.

eastcoastcoug
Danbury, CT

Romney was against the bailouts because he didn't want to encourage the status quo of pathetic management behaviors and union control. Only when we have to face a crisis do we change. If someone comes in and hands us money, we keep on doing what we were doing that got us in the mess in the first place.

The media and liberals have done a great job perpetuating the misinformation.

Having said that, Romney has mystified us in the middle who want a more moderate voice. He'll never be able to win a general election if he goes too far right. And social issues matter so little in the long run. What we need is someone to fix the economy and thin out/re-structure our fat bloated government. The same thing that has happened to all our our businesses who haven't bailed out by taxpayers.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

It appears Mitt Romney's policy of "Let them fail" to the Auto industry isn't going over so well in home state of Michigan. * LDS Liberal 2:03 p.m. Feb. 28, 2012

Your right:

** Let Detroit Go Bankrupt' - By Mitt Romney - NY Times - 11/18/08

Estimated result?

** How Many Jobs Depend on the Big Three?' - By CATHERINE RAMPELL - NY Times - 11/17/08

In both cases, there would be major short-term shocks to employment; depending on which scenario you use, a contraction of the Detroit Three would result in direct and indirect job losses of 2.5 million to 3 million in 2009. * Article

Romney inadvertantly supporting a policy that would have cost 3 MILLION American jobs...

would not make a person, popular.

stgjazzfan
Saint George, UT

No... this is a classic case of Hairy Reed campaining, Choose the canidate that you have the best chance to beat and make sure they are the one you will run against. Santorum was once a Democrat, and he now fills those shoes again very well.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

Bottom line, if you are against the bailout...

** Bush signs $700 billion bailout bill' - AP - Published by Denver Post - By Tom Raum - 10/03/08

** Bush signs $17.4 billion auto industry bailout package' - By Nelson Ireson - Motor Authority - 12/19/08

...then you would have to ask yourself, why you would support the Republican party.

When, under George W. Bush, they signed the FIRST bailout?

ouisc
Farmington, UT

The strange thing about this, as I understand it, is that Rick Santorum did not support bailing out U.S. auto manufacturers.

So Santorum is encouraging Democrats to vote against Romney for an issue that they have agreement on. Absolutely dispicable.

Hawkeye79
Iowa City, IA

Hi Pagan,

Would you mind explaining your inferential leap? You claim that bankruptcy would have cost Detroit up to 3 million jobs, but it didn't.

What do I mean by that?

Did you know that GM and Chrysler recently went through bankruptcy? But, by your logic, this means that the jobs must have disappeared. They didn't.

Bankruptcy can allow a company to restructure without disappearing. In fact, this is what Romney was advocating when he made his recommendation to allow the auto companies to enter bankruptcy proceedings. Even with the bailout funds, this is precisely what happened.

The only difference is that, because of the bailout funds, the UAW did not have to give up as much as it would have otherwise.

Of course, you would already understand this if you read more than just headlines.

eastcoastcoug
Danbury, CT

Pagan,

I don't know where you studied business (the U??) but in the real world, these auto workers would have lost their jobs because their companies were mismanaged and the unions made them less competitive. Let's see if GM or Chrysler/Fiat pick up or continue to lose market share.

I read the whole article by Romney and he wasn't cheering for the autoworkers to fail but for the companies to re-structure. I guess if you just read headlines, you miss the whole story.

The Skeptical Chymist
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

The Republican primary this year is the most amusing and enjoyable political contest I have witnessed in years. It is so informative about the nature of the Republican mindset!! Mitt just cannot connect with the average Joe, with comments about his wife's two Cadillacs, and how they need one for their home in California and one for their home in Massachusetts; his comment that he only made a small amount of money from his speeches ($374,000!); his comment that he doesn't know many NASCAR enthusiasts, but he knows some NASCAR owners; etc., etc. He really doesn't know how to make a connection with anyone who has an income below 7 or 8 figures.

On the other hand, Santorum claims that college education (indoctrination mills!) is undesirable because it causes young people to reject their faith; he wants to bring back the days of mandatory prayer and Bible reading in school (whose prayer and whose Bible?); he wants to force gays and lesbians back into the closet; and he wants to go back and reverse Griswold vs. Connecticut, which established the right to privacy and the right to use contraceptives. These are really winning issues with about 25% of the population, and total losers with the remaining 75%.

Please, let's keep the entertainment going! This is the most fun I've had in years, and it has the added benefit of driving the Republican brand totally into the ditch. The end result will be the re-election of President Obama - the most responsible president we've had in decades. Good work, Republicans!

CottageCheese
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

@ The Skeptical Chymist

Thank you for this line:

"...President Obama - the most responsible president we've had in decades."

It is one of the most amusing political statements I have read in years!!!

A1994
Centerville, UT

@The Skeptical Chymist

President Obama is the most responsible president in decades? Would you care to explain how adding another $5 Trillion to the National debt is being responsible? Pagan? LDS Liberal? Anyone?

Mark B
Eureka, CA

Trying to impose your vote into someone else's primary isn't very admirable. O course, it is legal, and Rush Limbaugh ordered his followers to do exactly that 4 years ago in order to lengthen the Democratic race. He grandly called the strategy "Operation Chaos". What shall we call it now?

Duh
west jordan, ut

Got to admit, it is actually funny that a State would allow across the party voting in a primary. I am a republican who does not support Santorum and this just goes to show how pathetic of a candidate he really is. I wouldn't be suprised if this doesn't actually hurt him in the long run. I mean, why do you think the DEMS are voting for Santorum? Yep, he would never beat Obama, I know I wouldn't vote for him. Funny how the Republicans Party keeps shooting themselves over and over again. Obama is loving it.

A1994
Centerville, UT

If Santorum wins by appealing to Michigan Democrats to vote for him, I'd say Mitt Romney, along with the GOP, can kiss the election goodbye. I can't understand Republican voters in Michigan being stupid enough to fall for Santorum's pitch. He has absolutely no chance of getting the nomination and even if he did, he wouldn't beat Obama. Romney has the best chance to do it. So what it comes down to is that we have Rick Santorum, the same guy who managed to lose his Senate reelection campaign by 20 points, showing the GOP how to take a 'principled' stand and push the self-destruct button with confidence. Brilliant.

Mick
Murray, Utah

Santorum won the union vote. Very suspicious. I think union voters do what their told. Did they know that Santorum was also against the auto bailout. Come on union members, think for yourselves!

But alas, it didn't stop Mitt.

Go Mitt Go!

silo
Sandy, UT

@Utah Girl

Like many on these boards, you tout Ford Motor Co as a shining example of proper management in the auto industry, and like all the others, you are misled.

While Ford wasn't part of the formal 'Bailout' they still received $7 billion in loans and requested a $9 billion line of credit from the government in 2008 and 2009. The CEO of Ford testified in favor of the bailout that GM received, stating that Ford would also suffer from the collapse of suppliers if the Bailout didn't occur.

Regarding your last comment about voting in the opposite party's primary, I agree, but remember that the Conservative Messiah, Rush Limbaugh set the precedent a few years ago with his Operation Chaos. Also note that Utah primaries are open on the democrat side, and closed on the republican side, so republicans freely cross-party vote here.

don17
Temecula, CA

Silo:

Actually Silo Ford did not request government bailout funds. Their funds were borrowed from their investors and banks. In addition the 9 billion dollar line of credit was set to be backed by private,non government investors, using all their assets to cover the loans if needed. Ford has paid off 60 percent or more now of all their outstanding debt privately held. And they have increased their market share. Ford stock has increased by over 11 times over in value as well.

The Governments convoluted bankrutcy program, not a standard bankruptcy, cost nearly a 4 million retirees and investors over 100 billion dollars in losses when the Obama administration trashed the bankruptcy code. Now Chysler is not an American company but is Italian owned! Both GM and Chrysler are still in debt to us the American people. Don't forget the Administrations rules also put over 2000 dealerships out of business with no compensation. That cost just in that sector of the auto industry over 150,000 jobs and in many cases killed the largest tax payer in many communities. Just think if you had a profitable business and the Government made you go out of business? Sounds fair huh? Or you were one of the bond holders who got cheated out of your investment. How would you feel if the Government took your investments with no compensation.

I am surprised at how many comment on this subject area with so little understanding including Pagan. Again and again the same lame headlines are written or recopied. I have in numerous previous posts shown the faulty math and propaganda pressed by Pagan! Continually telling the same false story will never make it true!

EnglishAlan
Rugeley, Staffs

If I owned a business that was struggling, and I could no longer afford to run it, I would close it. I would owe that to potential creditors, to my bank, and to myself. Why should large companies expect to carry on doing what they have always done when they can no longer afford to.

I have worked in nationalised industry, and all I saw was an attitude of waste, lethargy and dependency. Bailing out an ailing company may well save jobs in the short-term, but puts a responsibility on every other tax-payer to carry on paying for the ailing company. These bail-outs inevitably lead to more waste, lethargy and dependency, which leads to further bail-outs, which......

Sometimes, it's best to bite the bullet, and provide good redundancy packages, with further training in new skills. I went from being a coal-miner to being an accountant because of such a package, added to hard work in my studying.

Rifleman
Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: LDS Liberal 2:03 p.m. Feb. 28, 2012
"It appears Mitt Romney's policy of "Let them fail" to the Auto industry isn't going over so well in home state of Michigan."

I don't know why you say that. The majority in that state voted their confidence in him.

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