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Published: Wednesday, Feb. 15 2012 10:34 a.m. MST

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Roland Kayser
Cottonwood Heights, UT

You can find biblical quotes to support any position. People used the Bible to support slavery ad they used it to support the abolitionist cause.

Bloodhound
Provo, UT

I'm conservative and Republican. However, I'm very uncomfortable when I hear Christians (LDS, Baptist, etc.) talking like ruthless social Darwinists. Some of these people sound worse than Scrooge. A few seem to believe that we would have utopia if we just outlawed all forms of government, which they claim doesn't help anyone. In their eyes, anything is justified if it improves their bottom line. Doesn't sound very Christ like to me.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'Does God run the universe like Bain Capital?' - title

**'Mitt Romney as job creator clashes with Bain record of job cuts' - By Lisa Lerer, Bloomberg News - Published by DSNews - 07/20/11

"Employees who lost jobs at Bain-controlled companies more than a decade ago say they still hold Romney responsible.
"I would not vote for him for anything," said Phyllis Detro, 68, who lost her job..."

**'GOP rivals turn Romneys jobs record against him' - By Kasie Hunt - AP - Published by DSnews - 01/09/2012

'A separate AP analysis found that at least 4,000 workers lost their jobs at 45 companies bought by Bain...' article

Wow.

I HOPE not.

Maybe that's why, after the old testiment, there were so many ADDITIONAL books published?

New Testiment
Book of Mormon, etc, etc.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

What a silly comparison to try to make (Bain and God).

I disagree that the Bible tends to lead to "Socialism" as defined in the dictionary, "economic system charaterised by social ownership or control of the means of production and cooperative (AKA Government) management of the economy".

The Bible doesn't focus on economic systems. It focuses on teaching us moral behavior (love your neighbor, etc).

You could say that the Bible fortells a Socialist system that will take place when this imperfect existence is done. But that system will be lead by a PERFECTED being (not a corrupt politician).

The selfish politicians we have today, vieing for this power and control over our lives are FAR from perfect. They are a group of the most imperfect people I can think of.

A Socialist system run by selfish, corrupt, and imperfect men would NOT be a system I would want to live under. All attempts so far to establish this type of system under imperfect men have failed, and will continue to fail until they are lead by someone who is perfect and selfless and the people in the system are pure and selfless (not our current selfish politicians and population).

bandersen
Saint George, UT

As Winston Churchill said, Capitalism is the worst economic system in the world, accept for all the others. Anyone who believes the greed, corruption, etc. ceases to exist in a socialistic system is either naive or hiding behind their own greed and corrupt ideas to gain power. The fact the early christians had all things in common as an example of socialism is absurd to anyone with a bare minimum of intelligence! When anyone or anything moves from choice to compulsion, it ceases to be good at any level and only serves the corrupt and power hungry forces of those who want to rule by any means possible! It is ludicrous to think otherwise! Jesus' teachings were anything but for the use of force for whatever reason! Get a grip America and any who would be persuaded by such hogwash!

activ2004
Clearfield, UT

Why don't you answer that for yourself? There are as many gods as there are opinions of who and what god is. Why don't you tell us what [your] god would do? Would [your] god run his government perpetuating hate and ignorance and 16+ trillion dollar deficits and then blame it on Pres. George W. Bush derangement syndrome?

It is interesting, however, that there is only [one] progressive perpetrator of all this hatred and divisiveness and he has so much power over the hearts and minds of people as evidenced by this ridiculously absurd proposition designed only to propagate the anti-religion dysfunction and hypocrisy that is fulfilling his eternal objectives.

He (the angel cast down from heaven) is going to lose in the end, that I am certain.

CottageCheese
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

Does Barack Obama run the government like God?

It appears to be so...

See... he is trying to take very limited number of resources (a few fishes and peices of bread) and feed everyone until they are filled AND still have full baskets.

Unfortunately... Barack Obama is not God (despite what approximately 29% of the nation thinks) and does not have the same abilities.

CottageCheese
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

Does Barack Obama run the government like God?

It appears to be so...

See... he is trying to take very limited number of resources (a few fishes and peices of bread) and feed everyone until they are filled AND still have full baskets.

Unfortunately... Barack Obama is not God (despite what approximately 29% of the nation thinks) and does not have the same abilities.

There You Go Again
Saint George, UT

"...Many conservative Christians, mostly Protestant but also a number of Catholics, have come to believe and proudly proclaim that the creator of the universe favors free-wheeling, deregulated, union-busting, minimal taxes especially for wealthy investors, plutocrat-boosting capitalism as the ideal earthly scheme for his human creations,...".

Are you suggesting there is any other possibility?

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

bandersen - your comments would be very true if our government were compelled upon us against our will. But the fact conservatives seem to forget is we have a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. It is us, we are the government.

Our government reflect the people who empower it. It you think things aren't right look in the mirror. Abdicating our responsibility by pretending the government is anything other than a reflection the peoples will is simply an attempt to disavow responsibility.

When Caffetz talks about Washington being broken, he is simply saying the people voted in the wrong people, himself included. There is no mythical entity called the US Government. It is you and I - and the responsibility resides there.

activ2004
Clearfield, UT

My God's Government is found in The Holy Bible, The Book of Mormon (Another Testament of Jesus Christ), The Doctrine and Covenants and The Pearl of Great Price, and unarguably equally as important, the words of His modern day Prophet and Apostles which are transparent and open for anyone seeking to know what and how God governs His Universe.

I was born with the right to believe these things and I will not sit around and watch these rights be debated out of existence.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

The Bible isn't a political or economic treatise. It doesn't tell us what economic system is right. It doesn't tell us what political system is right. It just tells us how to act in our relationships with God and our fellow man (and we need to have parts of both paradigms to live the way he taught us).

We have to love our neighbor and take care of our neighbor... WILLINGLY, not by government force/mandate (no mention of government control of the economy or means of production in the Bible).

God also seems to honor some capitolist values in his teachings... in the parable of the talents he expected his servants to INVEST the talents and show a profit when he returned, and was not happy with the man who didn't.

I can't count the times where he encourages his children to to work, and prosper, and labor. I don't see him encouraging his people to get on welfare and stay there or rely on the Union Boss or the Government for your support. The patern in the Bible is love and charity, not compulsary means. Voluntary and open, not forced with tax codes with IRS enforcers and prison terms affixed.

For any who think the Bible teaches Socialism... google "proper role of government" or "Ezra Taft Benson speech on socialism" and watch the YouTube video of the 1965 speech and warning on the proper role of government. It's long but worth it.

The Bible does not advocate Socialism, Marxism or Communism. It advocates freedom, and doing good things for the right reasons (not out of fear of rulers/governors/politicians).

TheProudDuck
Newport Beach, CA

"From the ruthless, Darwin-based capitalism of the pre-Depression era..."

Stop right there. The man doesn't know his history.

1. The "Social Darwinists" were, almost to a man, Progressives. The partisans of free-market capitalism were, almost to a man, conventionally religious men who didn't like Darwin at all. And the idea that prior to the 1930s, the American economy was anywhere remotely "laissez-faire" (as the hard leftists of the New Deal dishonestly portrayed it) is just ahistorical. The largest single American industry -- railroads -- had been heavily (and incompetently) regulated for decades. Wilson even briefly nationalized them, running them so ragged that they never really recovered in the 1920s. The Federal Reserve -- an utterly un-laissez-faire institution -- existed since 1913, and its overreaching incompetence is believed by most economists to have been the major factor in turning the crash of 1929 into the catastrophe of the Depression.

As usual, most of what a liberal thinks he knows, isn't so.

bandersen
Saint George, UT

utahbluedevil: You are absolutely right, which is why you shouldn't be bothered by those who want to return to constitutional principles and principles of limited government. I've believed in God and the constitution my whole life and never wanted, nor accepted, government intrusion on me or my family. Contrary to your accusation of abdicating responsibility, I have only been married once, raised five wonderful, happy, obedient, serving children, all the while paying taxes and following through with the real strength in America, the family. The amazing thing is, I did it without the government telling me how to do it! I did it the old fashioned way--you know the one that few believe in any more--through hard work and faith in God, something Obama, the democrats and republicans, don't believe is possible today. So, yup, I believe I want an America that believes in the old fashioned ways of self-government and virtuous citizenship, and if people don't want liberty, then at least they had there chance. Europe is no example of what I want for America! America offers the best hope for Liberty, not the current prison model of govermance! I've been standing up for these things my whole life. It is unfortunately that only in the past few years that others have begun to believe in God and the Constitution again! We aren't going away. We love this country too much to have weak and patronizing politicians condemn us to slavery and prison! So, you are right, we have what we deserve, but there is hope through education and obedience to God!

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'I was born with the right to believe these things and I will not sit around and watch these rights be debated out of existence.' - activ2004 | 12:09 p.m. Feb. 15, 2012

YOU have every right.

What you do NOT have, is the right...

** 'George Tiller Killed: Abortion Doctor Shot At Church' - Huffington Post - 05/31/09

to FORCE that belief, on anyone else.

activ2004
Clearfield, UT

King James Version Holy Bible:

Old Testament-1184 pgs.
New Testament-403 pgs.
The Book of Mormon (Another Testament of Jesus Christ) 531 pgs
The Doctrine and Covenants 294 pgs.
The Pearl of Great Price (Articles of Faith) 61 pgs

Total-2473

US Code and supporting case law etc. etc. etc.- Too many pages to count

US Tax code- est. over 170,000 Pgs

Time it takes to reconcile US gvt. taxes every April 15- hours if not days or weeks.

God's law of tithing 10 percent

Time it takes to reconcile tithes and offerings during the last month of the tax year in Gods government 5-15 minutes.

Yeah, I will take God's government any day.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

What a bunch of melarky.

1. Early Christians, [and to the LDS, the City of Enoch, the 1st century Nephites/Lamanites, the Early Mormon Pioneers,] Bible/Book of Mormon/ Doctrine an dCovenants all tell us Christians should have "All things in Common". It is quesessential to Zion.

2. Jesus drove out the "Money Changers". People who prodoced nothing, but made huge profits out of nothing.
Completely Contrary from the start, beginning in the Garden of Eden, and the Law of the Harvest.
Cain became Master Mahan by gaining Abel's flock without doing anything for them, other than getting rid of him.

FastForward to today,
WallStreet and Corporate Raiders.

Mahan Economics 101.

Jesus would run these guys out in a heartbeat.

Mary E Petty
Sandy, UT

Jesus said âLove thy Neighbor as Thy Selfâ and âCome Follow Me.â This was an invitation, not a regulation, not a law, not a collective imposition. When he lived here on Earth, he used his own means to bless the lives of those he served and encouraged us to do likewise. He did not set up a government or a bureaucracy to control mankind or oversee that we did it his way, on his time frame, and for whom he said. He operates on the principle of agency, not force. His gospel is only applicable in the lives of those who are willing to freely live it.

activ2004
Clearfield, UT

Allow me to add a few other points:

God's Government The same Yesterday, Today and Forever; Always honors the sacred tithes and offerings by working with a balanced budget.

Welfare program: Requires beneficiaries when able to work for what they receive.

Judicial System; requires restitution, remorse (broken heart and contrite spirit) and other discipline as revealed to those with authority to judge.
Does not have an endless appeals process.

Oatmeal
Woods Cross, UT

What? The intellectual offspring of Ayn Rand and Social Darwinism suddenly becomes the adopted child of Christian conservatives? Surely this betokens the demise of true Christianity. And Jesus wept.

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