@BrentBot wrote "The reasons cited by the Russian Supreme Court for the
Jehovah Witnesses being a "terrorist organization" are: their refusal to
vote, to join the army, to be pacifist, to be governed by a foreign (U.S.)
central authority, their door-to-door proselytizing, and refusal to have blood
transfusions."Actually, I can see how this could be arguably
banned based on the reasons cited as I believe others religious freedom ends
where that religion is forcing their beliefs on me or others.1.
refusing blood transfusions can put in danger other family member's lives
including young children who have not reached the age to be able to personally
make a decision to possibly die instead of receiving a needed blood
transfusion.2. refusing to be governed by the government of their
country could also be seen as an affront to non Jehovah's Witness' in
the country. Other western religions should learn from the mistakes
of the Jehovah's Witness' so they are not also banned. The mistake is
you cannot force your beliefs in any way on people that are not in your
Saddened by this news. Doesn't matter what religion you espouse, this is
a preview of some even more serious actions in the future. If by chance
religion/s leave the country for the right to worship, it leaves the country
open for serious problems..
@Patriot. Seems to me you need to go back and grab a class at school. Russia
is not a communist country last I checked.
I think it's a good idea. I wish we could do it here in the US.
I'm having trouble understanding the outrage of Jehovah's Witnesses in
Russia, by the very same people who vocally cheer Donald Trump's
attempts to ban Muslims in America.Folks - do not kid
yourselves - the evil being done to religious freedoms is the same.
@patriot"You would never see this religious ban in a non-Communist
country."None of the countries with Sharia law are communist.
@scrappy do - DRAPER, UTApril 21, 2017 11:30 a.m.This is what
socialists do, no surprise... They would do it here if they gained power.. But
the way to knock down Christianity is more subtle here in the land of the
free===== I thought this was about Trump's friends
in Russia.I was not aware they also had this problem in :SwedenNorwayDenmarkFranceEnglandGermanyCanadaAustraliaNew ZealandJapanSouth KoreaThanks for the tip...or the Fake News - whatever the case might
Russia under Vladimir Putin seems to be returning to its communist and atheist
roots. it is now persecuting and oppressing religious minorities. The Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have had restrictions placed on them by new
laws restricting religious freedom in Russia. This ruling by Russia's
Supreme Court sets an ugly precedent. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints could also be banned in Russia under similar judicial action. This would
lead to severe persecution of Russian members of the LDS faith since it would
have official government sanction.
patriot - said: "We are talking about a Communist country by the way -- for
all you Communist - far left - Bernie Sanders disciples. Seriously
patriot, do you ever look past radio rhetoric?Bernie was born to
Russian/Polish immigrant parents who were Jewish and Sanders became interested
in politics at an early age: "A guy named Adolf Hitler won an election in
1932. He won an election, and 50 million people died as a result of that
election in World War II, including 6 million Jews. So what I learned as a
little kid is that politics is, in fact, very important.I understand
that conservatives believe that America should be a Christian theocracy, which
is what Russia would like, a single state sanctioned religion.
not surprised by this at all. We are talking about a Communist country by the
way -- for all you Communist - far left - Bernie Sanders disciples. You would
never see this religious ban in a non-Communist country.
This is what socialists do, no surprise... They would do it here if they gained
power.. But the way to knock down Christianity is more subtle here in the land
of the free
Those (justifiably) outraged at what's happened to Jehovah's Witnesses
in Russia need to remember that religious freedom often entails behavior which
the majority is uncomfortable with.If the Native American church
wants to use Peyote in their ceremonies... it's *their* religious beliefs,
folks, vs the majority's impulse to control.If devout
evangelicals want to help "save" LDS youngsters by handing out pamphlets
at school, can we deny them that freedom? (Who's "religious
freedom" should predominate?)If an apocalyptic cult wants to
amass insane amounts of firearms and explosives... is that their right?If your new neighbors want to sacrifice a lamb - just like in the Bible and
Book of Mormon - don't you need to hold your tongue, as the animal wails in
@Red CorvetteMy thirst thought is disagreement with you. My second thought is to understand you. Why do you applaud them? I see this as
dwindling religious freedom for all. Do you see it as something else? Do you
agree that JW's are extremist? What led you to that conclusion?
Under the Edmunds – Tucker anti-polygamy Act in US history, the assets of
the LDS church were seized by the US government. Today in Russia,
the assets of the Jehovah's Witnesses will be “liquidated by the
state”, by order of the Russian Supreme Court.The LDS church
got their assets back in 1893. Will that happen for the Jehovah's Witnesses
in Russia?An even darker parallel with US history is possible:" The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated
or driven from the state if necessary for the public peace . . . " Missouri
Executive Order Number 44, Lilburn W. Boggs, 1838In Putin's
Russia, many groups are “treated as enemies.”
The LDS Church just organized its 100th unit in Russia, adding another branch to
the Moscow Russia Stake.I am thinking that the LDS Church will
survive and continue to move forward with full time volunteers having a role.However I am also very distirbed by this attack on the freedom of the
Jehovah's WItnesses. Religious Freedom means people have a right to believe
and act on their beliefs. While I do not believe in rejecting military service,
strongly believe we have a civic duty to vote, and willingly say the pledge of
allegiance every day, I also think people have a total right to reject all these
things on religious grounds if they so choose.
The claim that "man/most religious freedom advocates in the US cast a warry
eye on Islam" is pure bunk. Religious freedom conferences regularly try to
and do invite and have Muslim speakers. Religious freedom advocacy groups like
the Beckett Fund published literature in defense of the Ground Zero Mosque and
have defended the rights of Muslim groups, as well as Sikhs and all sorts of
others. I could go on, but the claim is just plain rubbish.
Russia has been increasing restrictions on religious groups for several years.
Putin and his cronies view religion as a way for western ideas to infiltrate
Russia, which might be slightly correct. Putin is also using religious
restrictions to send a message to the western world.
This is again a show of Putin making his country bad for religious freedom. This
is abhorrent. And if you don't think that the Mormons could be targeted,
they already have been in some ways in Russia.Freedoms are being
denied to religion and minorities in Russia and it has to be held up to the
light of day. The new Concentration camps for LBGT people, and this vote
against the JW's in Russian show us the hatred for religion and
minorities. Senator Hatch at one time spoke up for Mormons in
Russia. Hopefully he will stand up for The Jehovah Witnesses and LBGT
With God, we reap what we sow. That's true of everyone, including
politicians.Today are the days of calamity in the world. As the
world turns away from what's right, far fewer will stand ground for showing
love and compassion instead of judgement and hatred for others. I don't
love the JW religion, but I do believe anyone should have protected freedoms to
believe and worship according to the beliefs they choose, without
molestation.I recognize that Russia may have full or zero real
representation of the people. So I won't judge the people, just as I hope
that others will not judge Americans for every decision our government makes.
People generally do, but I believe in encouraging a better way of thinking. That
said, it's hard to encourage anything when you see a government do
something so dispassionate and cruel as to enforce beliefs on people and hold
the minds of people into slavery.I stand for freedom. We're
human beings, not the borg.
Sounds like an "extremist" in Russia is anybody that the "powers
that be" don't happen to like.
It is strictly because they are considered an American religion. It will only be
a matter of time before the LDS church gets evicted. This is not a good time for
an American to be in Russia. If there are LDS missionaries still in Russia, I
hope the Church gets them out quickly. With the political climate what it is any
American would be taking a risk going there.
This is most unfortunate. It highlights the importance of a proper
understanding of religious freedom in this nation, as well as the dangers of
religious bigotry.Whatever one thinks of Jehovah Witness beliefs,
doctrines, or religious practices, the honest will be hard pressed to find
anything violent or subversive about them. The worst thing one might say is
that they are sometimes a little too persistent in their door-to-door
proselyting. The same thing has been said about LDS missionaries sometimes.In Russia, group of decent, peaceful, people are now denied the ability
to meet together peacefully to worship God as their consciences require. This
is a very sad day. I sincerely hope to see this unjust ruling
Other groups, LDS for their US roots, may be next. The best way to survive is to
follow their laws without protest, vote, perform military or civilian duties.
Apologize to any authorities for perceived or actual transgressions and do
everything you can to support the local community without proselyting. Take
advantage of any natural disasters with massive turnout to help. Become a
friendly asset to their country. If banned, accept without complaint, we will be
This is a terrible day for religious liberty. I know many Jehovah's
witnesses personally and they are, by and large, outstanding people. I met
many more Jehovah's Witnesses on my LDS mission in Europe many years ago
and they were some of the kindest people I met and I learned a lot about them at
that time. Nothing I learned in my associations with them would lead me to
classify them as "extremists". Yes, they have several unique doctrinal
points that some may view as strange, but I suspect that if any of us tried to
look at our own belief system through the eyes of a non-believer, we would see
that we all have some unique beliefs that would appear strange to others. No
matter what our belief system, we should all protest to the extent possible the
silencing of any group bound together by certain beliefs.
"Religious Freedom" is viewed differently by different people.It may be that the Jehovah's Witness view of the coming end of the world,
and the 144,000 limit on who will be saved is seen as disruptive, provocative,
in Russia. The Russians have certainly had problems with Islam, and the Muslim
view that Allah will conquer all others.Here in the US, many/most
religious freedom advocates cast a wary eye on Islam.
The reasons cited by the Russian Supreme Court for the Jehovah Witnesses being a
"terrorist organization" are: their refusal to vote, to join the army,
to be pacifist, to be governed by a foreign (U.S.) central authority, their
door-to-door proselytizing, and refusal to have blood transfusions.
Hopefully the missionaries/"volunteers" will be alright. I was confused
for a Jehovah's Witness on the street on many occasions.
"Your thinking is about as dangerous a threat as it gets..."Well, we're in agreement...If one group can be threatened
based on belief, so can others. All rights to religious worship are in danger
when some lose theirs in such an arbitrary and capricious manner.
@Bass,Your thinking is about as dangerous a threat as it gets.,
Is this really a surprise to anyone......we have the same outcome at just about
every college campus in the USA that is controlled by pseudo Putin Communists!
This is terrible. I wish there was a link to the decision, but even without
knowing their reasoning, it is clear that this is a bad day for religious
freedom in Russia.
@California Steve.Doubtful. The model for the LDS Church in
Russia may yet become East Germany from 1946 to 1991. As far as I know the LDS
Church still has a significant number of 19-year-old "volunteers" in
Russia.The LDS Church stands against religious persecution against
any group. But, at the same time, it will do what it can to continue to have
its members in Russia worship and exercise their religious beliefs as freely as
And guess who's next?
The Jehovahs Witnesses have a tough time in Fascist Nations.Hitler
murdered them.But so far, Putin is just banning them . . . As far as
we know.I wonder how long it will be before our Trumplings decide
that the Jehovah’s Witnesses are un-American?
Nazi Germany suppressed Jehovah's Witnesses for their refusal to serve in
the German Army or to support the Third Reich. Their meeting houses were closed
and many were sent to jail. A few of them were sent to concentration camps and
were executed. All for worshiping God in the way they believed to be the correct
Wow..... and how do we define "extremist"? Obviously anti-israel
positions in Russia aren't viewed as extremist. Anti-LGBT positions are
considered extremist. Skin headism is tolerated. Jehovah's Witnesses
are really considered extremist? There has to be more to this story. Russia is
a nutty country.... but really?
A blow to religious freedom. Who would be next on the list?"When the [Russians] came for the [Jehovah's Witnesses],I
remained silent;I was not a [Jehovah's Witness]...When
they came for the [Mormons],I remained silent;I wasn't a
[Mormon].When they came for me,there was no one left to speak
out."Adapted from Martin Niemoller
More room for the truth. Our truth. His truth.