If people are really concerned about how many birds are killed please write to
your representative to create a law making it illegal to keep domesticated cats.
Compared to all methods of energy production, cats commit genocide.
To "intervention" you are still wrong. You offer no proof that green
energy kills fewer bird than oil spills do. Hint, if you want to consider the
entire lifecycle of oil, it will only make the deaths due to green energy go UP.
Where do you think the chemicals that are used to make the carbon fiber wind
turbine blades come from? How do you think the rare earth metals used in PV
arrays are obtained? How do you think they get the metal for the mirrors used
in some solar plants?If you want to consider the entire lifecycle,
green energy only becomes more and more dirty the deeper you look into it.The studies that you quote are highly biased and use questionable data
at best. Plus, they are based on research by anti-nuclear and fossil fuel
people. What do you expect they would find?If you look even deeper
into the deaths of birds attributed to coal, gas, and nuclear, they include
deaths due to global warming. The studies that you have so much faith in have
holes so big in them you can drive a 777 through it.
@redshirtDid you read my post responding to brio? There is no need for
"assumptions.". The reasearch is in your claims are false again read the
post to bro. Little hint for you though, since this my last post available,
assuming that the only environmental impact by oil production and use is due to
oil spills is not defective of the reality.
To "intervention" ok, lets look at the numbers. Assuming that each
month you have a spill like the BP oil spill, you would have approximately
60,000 bird and animal deaths each year. See "BP oil spill: Disaster by
numbers". Compared to the 140,000 to 328,000 bird that die each year due to
collisions with wind turbines alone. See "How Many Birds Do Wind Turbines
Really Kill?" in the Smithsonian. It is 573,000 bird deaths due to wind
turbines according to "Wind farms get pass on eagle deaths" in the
AP.The Exxon Valdez oil spill, which is considered one of the worst
ever killed 220,000 animals. Each year wind turbines alone are probably killing
more than that. Add to that the 28,000 bird deaths that the Center for
Biological Diversity estimates are killed yearly by solar power.The
environmentalists screamed at the Exxon Valdez, but now shrug their shoulders
when more animals are killed by green power.
@redshirt"Green" power kills more birds and animals than oil
does."Once again no that is not tru, please read previous post that
sight the sources that prove your claim are false before re posting the same
To "jsf" there are fewer bird killed in oil spills than are killed by
this type of solar plant or by wind mills. "Green" power kills more
birds and animals than oil does.To "Lagomorph" this is not a
PV array. This system uses light to heat up a sodium solution that allows power
to be generated once the sun goes down. There is no way to turn this type of
power into a distributed system.
@moutainman"Wouldn't it be hillarious if the cleanest energy
turns out to be fossil fuels because man made global warming is a hoax?"Ignoring previous comments to try to be funny is hilarious. As I illustrated
above even if global warming was a hoex, alternative energy is still far less
destructive then fissile fuels.
There is no such thing as "green" energy! Hydro electric kills or
pervents fish migrations. Solar and wind kills birds. Nuclear energy is
dangerous. Wouldn't it be hillarious if the cleanest energy turns out to be
fossil fuels because man made global warming is a hoax?
@LagomorphThat is such a simple and logical idea.
Another reason for solar not to follow the nuclear model of centralized
production. Centralized production makes sense for nuclear (and fossil fuels as
well) because the fuel is very energy dense and it's easier to manage waste
products (spent fuel for nuclear, ash and gases for fossil, heat for both) when
there are a few large generators.But solar is a diffuse, low density
energy. It's already globally distributed without a grid. Why build
infrastructure to gather this diffuse input and concentrate it in one spot, only
to turn around and spread it out again to diffuse end users? Why not just
locate the collector at the end user and avoid the costs of a distribution
system and transmission losses?Distributed solar, such as individual
residential or neighborhood scale installations, avoids many of the costs of
overconcentration. The only birds that get baked in a household solar cooker
are chickens and Thanksgiving turkeys.
@Brio while I certainly think we should continue to find less destructive
ways to get our energy its hard to contend that traditional means of producing
energy is superior to wind or solar in this area. I few stats to think about.
according to the US fish and wildlife about 2 million birds are killed every
year due to oil production in the US, and according to the the New York State
Energy resource counsel wind farms are responsible for roughly 0.27 avian
fatalities per gigawatt-hour (GWh) of electricity while nuclear power plants
involve 0.6 fatalities per GWh and fossil-fueled power stations are responsible
for about 9.4 fatalities per GWh. Within the uncertainties of the data used, the
estimate means that wind farm-related avian fatalities equated to approximately
46,000 birds in the United States in 2009, but nuclear power plants killed about
460,000 and fossil-fueled power plants 24 million.
@ GaryO:You are obviously once again pulling figures out thin air in
a desperate attempt to prove your liberal agenda. That causes you or anyone else
to lose credibility in a big hurry. For once, Gary, please do some
actual research and give us a usable answer to the question you are trying to
answer. Your 2 made-up complete guesses are literally a thousand times different
from each other and so mean absolutely nothing. It's quite likely they are
highly inflated to the real answer, since for years now the reserve pits have
been either cleaned or covered up. Sizable oil spills happen only
once in a blue-moon... meaning not very often, and usually multiple years apart.
But this mirror apparatus is killing another bird every 2 minutes all day
long 7 days a week, per the article. That equates to tens of thousands of birds
each and every year.It's a pretty safe bet that those effected birds
don't consider this to be very clean energy. Let's take
the scenario one step further. How many birds does clean-coal produced power
kill in comparison to this solar power project?
Again, let this be a lesson to all those who want humans to leave no
environmental impact anywhere on anything while still using the Macs, IPods and
IPhones - IT ISN'T POSSIBLE! There is always an impact - no matter what! My
opinion, don't try to prevent all losses - just determine how to minimize
them. I still believe nuclear power to be one of the best options. After
producing approximately 1/5 of U.S energy for several decades the total output
includes steam and highly-radioactive waste that could be stored in one
moderately-sized storage facility. Find any other energy source with such a low
impact on the environment and I'll jump on that train.
jsf -"Dead birds, how many are killed in oil spills?"Millions? Billions?I'd say quite a lot of birds have
been killed in oil spills . . . not to mention in the routine oil production
process.When an oil rig occupies a site, it has a big hole in the
ground right next to it called a "reserve pit."It's
full of water to start with, but then becomes filled with shale and chemicals
mixed into the drilling fluid and with oil from rig motor oil changes. When the
drilling rig leaves and a production rig takes it's place, that pit is
still there.If a duck lands on it, it might be the last time he ever
lands on anything, because he's coated with oil and toxic chemicals.
The great benefits of solar and wind renewable energy. Dead birds, how many are
killed in oil spills?Environmental safety at work. The green kings
certainly don't tell us about this issue.