@UteologyInteresting how Ute fans can imply that BYU fans are liars, but
when BYU fans try to respond, their comments are denied.Born and
bred in So Cal. 26 years with California as my home base, during which time I
attended BYU. Moved to Washington State to work. There is life outside of
Utah. Not taking people at their word = projection, perhaps?
"As for which mid-majors have regularly beaten Utah, obviously the question
implies the word currently. You did a lot of dancing, but the answer is
nobody."What is your definition of "current"? What about
"regular"?And how about I ask you a similar question: Which
mid-majors have beaten BYU on a regular basis?
@WA_Alum&DadMarysville, WA@ Uteology"@WA_Alum&DadI don't see any way this is beneficial
for broader collegiate athletics.---------------That's because
you don't have a dog in the fight."As a 50-something,
fourth-generation USC fan who has rooted for SC for longer than I have cheered
for BYU, I'm willing to bet I've been following PAC teams longer than
you have. ==============================You're a
4th generation USC fan? Who is a Washington alum (per your screen name)? Cowboy up and take ownership of your real team, BYU. It's okay,
nothing to be ashamed about.Bottom line, this is a good thing for
college football, just like the D1 and D2 split in 1973.
@ekuteuteanymous asked some questions that deserve an answer
although I doubt you are the one that can actually give us those answers. utah
has had a large influx of revenue yet it still runs in the red several millions
per year on top of being subsidized several million more per year. And he is
correct about the massive backlog the university has in maintenance that has
been left undone which means the infrastructure at the university is crumbling
in some ways.Obviously that cannot continue to be the case, the
athletic department cannot continue to take subsidies from the school when the
school cannot even maintain its own infrastructure. What is the
plan, and the schedule, to fix these issues?
ekuteIf Utah is doing so well financially, why is their athletic
program operating in the red?And why can't the school afford to
fix it's crumbling classrooms - over $400 million in deferred maintenance?
There are also the other costs they are discussing like feeding all of them,
ongoing education even after they leave school, and other things. The cost could
get to be quite large, and probably will. Once again i think BYU is capable of
handling that if they choose, I'm not quite as sure about utah although I
think they could handle most of them if they plan for it accordingly. But it can add up and inequities in budgets between schools, even those in the
same conference, will make it so that some will probably be able to do all of it
at a high level and some will not. I do htink there are issue hear that are
unforseen that will arise as well. Considering most schools, including most p5
schools, operate in the red already it will be interesting to see how many can
handle all of the costs.
@2ferI think a university with a major sports program like, BYU or
utah, has somewhere in the vicinity of 700 athletes on scholarship each year. If
we took the high number of $5000 each that is an extra $3.5 mil per year, if we
use $3000 each that is $2.1 mil.Yes both BYU and utah can probably
handle that cost but of course that isn't all of it. They are also talking
about ongoing medical care, maybe for life, and other things as well. I
don't know what medical insurance for a group of 700 athletes costs but
let's say $2000 each per year, just a guess I admit it might be more, and
then take a 4 year cycle of athletes which is about 700, then multiply that out
you are talking about substantial cost, especially as it compounds over the
decades. If you add up say 5 cycles of 4 years that would be a cost of 6 mil per
year in ongoing healthcare costs for those athletes. Just an
interesting thing to consider what those costs may grow to become.
@Two For Flinching and othersThe issues that will hurt Utah and
likely BYU is that the stipends will likely be based on cost of attendance
calculations used for Pell Grants. When a kid is given the option of going to
USC with a $3800 stipend and Utah or BYU with a $1200 stipend then you better
hope that the kid is as good at math as he is at football. Don't think that the big schools are going to say having an equal amount
for each school works because a $2500 stipend in LA won't go as far as in
SLC. Do you really think that USC and UCLA would choose to put themselves at a
competitive disadvantage like that. If anything BYU's
Independence might free it up more from a conference's
"calculations" and allow potentially more spending power (compared to
cost of living) that the schools in the south (LSU and Alabama) are going to
insist on.There are a lot of unintended consequences lurking here, I
don't think most are going to be good for Utah and BYU.
The angst in happy valley is funny. This doesn't hurt byu...for now, and
the rest of the mid-majors, like byu, are all for it. As long as ND stays
independent accommodations will be made and byu will continue to ride it's
coat tails, putting together it's own irrelevant schedules and meaningless
@ Surf is UpHow much do you think this is going to cost per year?
Stipends will fall between 3-5 thousand dollars per year, per athlete. That is
only a couple million at most. Utah is receiving a full revenue share this
year, and yes, Utah has a large bank of alumni with deep pockets. Utah is in a
great position, and will be just fine....
@ Riverton CougarWhy wouldn't we? The status quo has changed
and we're on the inside. As for which mid-majors have
regularly beaten Utah, obviously the question implies the word currently. You
did a lot of dancing, but the answer is nobody.
@81Ute - I don't think BYU fans are the stalkers, see any comments on BYU
articles and you'll see more Ute fans commenting and arguing than BYU fans
on Ute articles.@81Ute - As for future alignment it'll all be
up in the air anyway. Those p5 schools who are top of the heap will continue to
dictate the future of college sports. You can't tell me that USC, UCLA,
Stanford, Oregon and others would pass up a chance to form a super conference
with Texas, OK, OKState and others. The weaker members of the conference will
be discarded at that point. And a team like BYU might find its way into the
mix. So please quit talking like this is all a done deal and that change will
not occur in the future, changes will continue.
@ Uteology "@WA_Alum&Dad I don't see any
way this is beneficial for broader collegiate athletics.
--------------- That's because you don't have a dog in the
fight."As a 50-something, fourth-generation USC fan who has
rooted for SC for longer than I have cheered for BYU, I'm willing to bet
I've been following PAC teams longer than you have. I most definitely have
a dog in the fight. I've watched as deep pocketed boosters and
win-at-any-cost coaches have treated USC athletics, especially football, as
quazi-pro teams, and I'm sick of it. Collegiate sports is supposed to be
about more than just winning. You newcomers to a "big-boy"
conference can be forgiven for not seeing the ugly side of it yet. USC, as a private school with huge endowments will always have the resources
to be one of the innovators in gaming the new system, at the expense of schools
such as Utah. And I will watch the continued corruption of the crimson and
gold. How is that a win for either of us?
I find it interesting that many choose to denigrate Utah for being in the
PAC-12. Do you really belive that, we as fans, don't know how difficult the
competition is (not just the games but recruiting)? You cast stones about money
versus the big boys, as if that matters. I would be a Utah fan if they were
still in MWC. I would be a Utah fan if they were in the Big Sky. I would suggest
that you take a serious look at the programs you cheer for. The Utes might not
be the prettiest girl at the dance but the Utes are at the dance, what about
your team? There are continental shifts occuring in college sports, how well
positioned is Utah vs BYU or USU?
@arrogant chickensReally? You can't possibly belive those
statements, do you? BYU does what is best for BYU, as does USU. Utah will do
what is best for Utah. Unfortunately, what is best for the Utes has nothing to
do with BYU. I get it, I really do; BYU fans are like the stalking ex...Fatal
Attraction like.I much preferred it when you BYU fans would complain
about having to play Utah. Those time were fun now it is just creepy.
Some of U guys seem to see (read wish) that the future for BYU as it relates to
these proceedings is certain. I believe that there will be some severe blow back
on the utes and PAC12 bottom dwellers.As it has already be stated,
the U of U, being true to school color, operates in the red. Therefore in order
to even hope to be competetive they will need to beg the state of Utah for
money because the other PAC teams will see the previous addition of utah and
Colorado as a negative. They will no longer want U to have any more scraps from
the table and will proceed to show U the door. Most Utah tax payers proably like
BYU.BYU will be okay because it has been fiscally responsible and
has a fan base with some deep pockets. No LDS tithes will be used,
so don't even try that attack U guys.utah's one hope in
all of this is the fact that billionaire Jon Huntsman apparently wants to be
broke by the time he dies. Perhaps Chris Hill can convince him to leave a big
present for U.
"Which mid-major schools have beaten Utah on a regular basis?"First of all, you completely missed the point. The point is that Utah fans
have done a complete 180 degree turn on their view of elite conferences and
"power" teams.Secondly, allow me to bring up some non-P5
teams to have beaten Utah on a regular basis:BYU (yes, BYU has beaten Utah
on a regular basis and holds the longest win streak in the series)Boise
StateAir Force (Utah is 5-10 against them; that's regular)Hawai'i (14-12, that's regular)Idaho (14-12)Nevada
(4-5)San Diego State (7-9-1)Plus honorable mention:YMCA
(0-5)Army (0-3; 3 games may not be "regular", but Utah is still
winless against them)Houston (0-4)Utah has also lost many
games to Wyoming and Colorado State (BYU also has many losses against these
teams, too; they were pretty good at times) and about a dozen to New Mexico (as
does BYU).Does that answer your question?
@2fer"If the P5 conferences elect to pat student athlete
stipends, it will put BYU in an interesting spot in regards to all of their
Olympic sports."You may have inadvertently revealed the doomsday
scenario that could unravel the entire plan.There are literally
hundreds of minor sports teams from P5 conference schools that compete in other
conferences against non-P5 teams - men's volleyball, men's and
women's water polo, men's and women's indoor track, and
women's lacrosse are examples of teams just in the PAC 12 that would be
directly impacted. Without even researching it, it's safe to say that B1G
ice hockey teams would also face the same issues.The unintended
consequences of this stipend paying plan could have nationwide repercussions
that could be more far reaching than any of the proponents ever imagined.If you think that this is an issue that BYU alone would face,
you're sadly mistaken.
2fer"If the P5 conferences elect to pat student athlete
stipends, it will put BYU in an interesting spot in regards to all of their
Olympic sports. The WCC schools don't have the resources to pay athletes,
and I imagine they won't be thrilled if BYU starts paying its athletes.
Could be some interesting choices being made by BYU athletics in the near
future..."You're forgetting, there are schools in the PAC
12 that would have the exact same problem.UCLA, USC and Stanford,
for example, have outstanding men's volleyball programs, but they compete
in the Mountain-Pacific Sports Federation against:Brigham Young, Cal
Baptist, Cal State Northridge, Hawai'i, Long Beach State, Pepperdine, UC
Irvine, UC San Diego, and UC Santa BarbaraAs you can clearly see,
the majority of the teams in the best men's volleyball conference in the
country aren't from P5 conferences, in fact, many of those schools
don't even have a football program.USC, UCLA and Stanford could
also be forced to make some interesting choices in the future.
@ arrogant chickensWhatever helps you sleep at night. Nobody wants
BYU to disappear; it's a great rivalry. But BYU's future does seem to
be in limbo, and serious decisions are going to have to be made.
Sanefan " The dissolution of rules and ethics in college sports has begun...
The richer of the P5 will begin buying the best athletes at a premium price,
there will soon be a caste system in the P5 as there is in College football in
general."Sounds horrible. And yet Cougar fans desperately want to be
a part of it.
First the mighty weak Utes ran away from the rivalry, now they're proving
that they're so scared of BYU that they'd rather have BYU completely
disappear than continue competing against the Cougars on the playing field.
I think athletes should receive compensation for their part in revenue
production. They ought to get more in return for the sacrifice of their bodies
on the gridiron. But it's a slippery slope. Some schools (think SEC) will
place so much value on football glory over education and moral principle, that
they will go way overboard relative to what others can keep up with. There are
boosters in certain regions with affiliations to certain universities (quiet on
specifics) that make their money via corruption. These individuals will also
donate their money wrapped in corruption because it comes full circle according
to their own narrow minded selfishness. They spend money like they make it.
It's all about them and their school.
Want to hear a joke? "Today’s vote marks a significant
step into a brighter future for Division I athletics," said Nathan Hatch,
board chair and Wake Forest University president, who also chaired the steering
committee that redesigned the structure. "We hope this decision not only
will allow us to focus more intently on the well-being of our student-athletes
but also preserve the tradition of Division I as a diverse and inclusive group
of schools competing together on college athletics’ biggest stage."Okay let's break this down. First off it's Wake Forest. They
deserve 'Power 5' autonomy about as much as Mickey Mousse. Moving on
we have the contradiction of all time; "diverse and inclusive." Those
two words go together like sardines on a chocolate cake.
I have long despised the BCS and the 'Bowl Coalition' that preceded
it. Although I was stoked and I still am about Utah being in the PAC 12, I never
for a moment switched over into a BCS lover. What we are seeing now with the
'Power 5' autonomy situation disgusts me.
Here I go with crazy comparisons.Take the stock market, it has
changed within time cycles of its' history. It used to cater to robber
barons. Right now in college football we are seeing this kind of problem with
some worthy schools outside the Power 5 that compare on a smaller scale with
persons of contribution (great inventors and scientists) a hundred years ago.
They were negatively effected via loss of financial prosperity and grant
reduction from the 1890s through the 'Great Depession'. In that era
(although it's still comparable) it was easy for the big financial players
and ultra wealthy controllers of the market to take all the money they could
from those that help create it, leaving them with little to stew on. Tesla had
much of his physics/science repressed and his inventions patented by the richest
profiteers that saw the stock market as their exclusive playground. Obviously
there are still and probably always will be moral questions with the market
core, but I think the 'Good Ole Boy' network in college football is
relegating those outside their circle as being free game for sack, pillage and
plunder. A BYU conservative might find capitalism the enemy here.
@BlutoLarry Scott has already stared that UCLA and USC will be
allowed to "pay" their players more than say the Washington State's
and Utah's of their league. Your nightmare has only just begun.-----------Did you just make that up? Cite your source, because
Larry Scott nor any-other commissioner has that kind of power.Plus
according to this article: "A handful of university presidents who spoke at
NCAA headquarters after the vote agreed on one thing: Paying athletes to play is
off the table."I can't imagine any commissioner allowing
his league to become "top heavy" by allowing 2-3 teams to play by
different set rules then the rest of the league. Plus, he'll need majority
approval by the league Presidents.
There are schools outside the power 5 in other conferences or independent teams
like BYU that are more worthy of inclusion than the bottom half of the schools
in the power 5 that feed off of and benefit from the conferences best and
historic teams at the top. So, although there are intriguing and competitive
positives that some sports fans can see with these changes of Power 5 economic
and competitive dominance, there is also an unbalanced prejudice of power. But
such is capitalism historically.
Wow 85 comments already. This post section might reach 200 comments by Friday
night.Follow the money. But it's NOT just the money because
revenue and the abundance of it can be justified as what it is here in this
college football power conference autonomy debate. This largely comes from
supply and demand. Basically, despite opposition from some fan bases, many/most
of us feed the beast here. Yes money is the foundation in all of this, but
it's the corruption and shady circulation and distribution of that money
that gives the 'Good Ole Boys' the power. They use a bowl structure
and minor tweak playoff system along with mass marketing to keep enough college
football fans interested around the country. Some fans who might firmly oppose
them tend to not think too much about it if it doesn't effect their team of
choice, contrary to a BYU fans possible concerns.
@ Riverton CougarWhich mid-major schools have beaten Utah on a
Utah Utes Fan Handbook 2009 Edition:"Simply being a
'BCS' school does not mean that you are better than every other
school. We proved that last year by beating Alabama in one of their own coveted
BCS bowls! We can prove that many, many 'mid-major' schools are better
than many so-called 'BCS' schools. 'Mid-major' teams beat
'BCS' teams on a regular basis! Can we honestly be expected to believe
that teams like Vanderbilt, Colorado, Perdue, Duke, and Kansas are better than
Utah, TCU, BYU, Boise State, and the like? No way! BCS means nothing!"Utah Utes Fan Handbook 2014 Edition:"All schools in a
Power 5 (formerly BCS) conference are superior to anyone not in a Power 5
conference. Don't let anybody ever tell you otherwise. There is no way even
the best mid-major could be better than any P5 school. In fact, most P5 coaches
want to have P5 teams only play against P5 teams. This is proof that no
mid-major can even come close to being as good as a P5 team!"
If the P5 conferences elect to pat student athlete stipends, it will put BYU in
an interesting spot in regards to all of their olympic sports. The WCC schools
don't have the resources to pay athletes, and I imagine they won't be
thrilled if BYU starts paying its athletes. Could be some interesting choices
being made by BYU athletics in the near future....
@ WhoRtheUtes???Utah will be fine. This will be an extra couple
million dollars added on to the athletics budget. They get a full share of
conf. revenue this season and the facilities upgrades are almost complete. Utah
will be fine. BYU on the other hand, which is on the outside.....
This is a great day... Too bad the Utes can't compete with this. Does
anyone here really think the tax payers will ante up and say let me pay more so
the Utes can win 2 games a year? I hardly think so. But rather, I think the Utes
should stand tall and immediately suspend all sports and put those monies to
work on research.
Lot's of speculation and guessing going on...let's just wait and
see.A couple of things are clear:Title IX isn't
going away, so what you do for football players you better be ready to do for
all scholarship athletes.The P5 school official who thinks autonomy
will slow down lawsuits knows little about human nature, greed and attorneys.
If "allowing athletes to pursue other paying careers" while
in school is truly on the agenda as stated in the ESPN article, we all better
hope that that never passes. If it does there will quickly be haves and have
nots in the P5 schools. Every football player at USC, UCLA, Texas and Ohio
State will have a $50K/yr. part time job as a movie walk on, rap artist, or
corporate intern thanks to boosters. Not sure Crimson Club members will be too
thrilled with "autonomy" when they're told they need to provide a
$50K/yr. intern job.
@ SoonerUteWhat! The dissolution of rules and ethics in college sports
has begun. Another negative unintended consequence that I predict, The P5 will
divide and conquer....themselves. You will see each conference eventually
making their OWN rules regarding their conferences. The richer of the P5 will
being buying the best athletes at a premium price, there will soon be a caste
system in the P5 as there is in College football in general. Think you got
tired of the SEC winning Championship after Championship, well guess what, that
was nothing to what is on the horizon! Unfortunately, most people, including
the Commish's of the P5 can only see the golden goose. If you don't
remember what happened to the Golden Goose, I suggest you all read the fable!
@Ute "fans",If things cycle and change, then how can you all
be so sure that BYU will never be "in"? After all, if the P5 wants to
only schedule P5 teams so that every opponent is a worthy opponent, how long
will it take until some P5 teams are deemed "unworthy" and are replaced
with other teams? Although the SEC and ACC say BYU won't count as a P5
opponent in their new scheduling rules, he PAC has already said that they find
BYU to be a good opponent. Even one of the PAC school's AD opted out of
playing BYU because their schedule would be too hard with BYU and Michigan the
@BlutoIf I recall correctly, in 2011 you're the same person
that said Independence was the future and that teams like Texas and USC were
headed for independence over the next 5 years.Now you want us to
believe that BYU is in good position while your coach is begging the Big 12 for
an invite?You need to worry less about "outspending" Utah
and more about beating Utah, this decade in particular.
talkinsports"IF that ever happens, the Utes will never have
another winning season."Thank you for your unwanted opinion that
holds absolutely no weight. College sports, like most everything else, is
cyclical. For example, Stanford football was so bad in the few years preceding
the Jim Harbaugh era, that school officials were considering disbanding the
football program. I bet no Stanford official is thinking that now. Utah football
may be down at the moment, but byu is now out of the picture entirely.
@WA_Alum&DadI'm a big college football fan, and of college
sports in general, and I don't see any way this is beneficial for broader
collegiate athletics. ---------------That's because
you don't have a dog in the fight.Did you see Division 1 and 2
split as being beneficial? This is similar, they're just creating a
Division 4.I think it's a good move. Also, from the sounds of
it P5 teams will eventually ONLY play other P5 teams and I can also see the
playoffs being expanded to 8 teams.
VegasUteLas Vegas, NVI hope it comes from state funds so that byU
fans will be paying for our football players' "walking around
money"! That would be awesome!!----------That would
DuckhunterHighland, UTKeep mowing those lawns.
@talkinsports - we could assemble quite a list of poor p5 schools that Utah has
already joined in football. Vanderbilt, Purdue, Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky,
SoMiss, Colorado, WashSt, the list goes on and on. Sure, there can be a
breakout year or two but in the end they're all just also-rans, the little
struggling fish in the big pond.
I see trouble with the p5 schools/conferences dictating for all other schools.
Letting the haves run the shop and giving the others the 'chance' to
play along or to opt out will increase inequity in sports. I guess the big boys
are working to legislate out the potential Appalachian States from having upset
theDailyObserver"I can't wait until P-5 teams can only play
other P-5 teams"IF that ever happens, the Utes will never have
another winning season.Utah fans will learn what fiddling while Rome
burns really means.
Chris B,What is missing in your life that you need to be so
obnoxious about this stuff? I guess when your team doesn't win,
that's all you have. You really should stop using the pronoun
"WE". As nothing more than a Utah fan, you do not represent either the
PAC or the Big 5. These developments do not make you better than people who
support other schools. You could easily just say you are happy with this
development and leave it at that, but you insist on running your mouth which
makes you look even more silly when your team can't get it done on the
field. And rest assured right now they are not getting it done on the field.
Bluto @SoonerUte "You think the P5's will have autonomy and the other
schools will not?"Yes.If the 65 decide to pay players
$2000/month, BYU can decide to pay that or not. BYU cannot decide to pay
players more (say $2500) because they are bound to the limit set by the 65. BYU
could choose to pay players less, say $1000/month, so maybe that is what you
think is autonomy.I presume they'd have to pay all players the
same amount. So if they usually pay out $1000, but they're competing for a
recruit that has been offered $2000, BYU couldn't offer just that one
to BlutoBeing an alleged have not in a Have league still far exceeds
being on the outside and looking in.
to Solomon Levi"There's a reason why BYU has had a 65,000
seat stadium for over 30 years, while Utah has never had the funds to expand
their crackbox of a stadium."Really? I almost certain RES
expanded for the Winter Games. "There's a reason why
BYU's athletic depart operates in the black, while Utah's operates in
the red."Comedy & economics. I love it.to
TroyTown Thanks for proving my point. If you are USC Fan as I
suspect then How bout them Bruins?I'd bet a Lions share of Ute
fan are not resting on their laurels and expecting to be treated like royalty
for past accomplishments. Life is about challenges not entitlement.
@SoonerUteYou think the P5's will have autonomy and the other
schools will not?Bring it on...Every lawyer in America would love to take
that case.Try to familiarize yourself with the "Equal Protection
Clause" of the US Constitution.And bone up on Title-9 as well.Larry Scott has already stared that UCLA and USC will be allowed to
"pay" their players more than say the Washington State's and
Utah's of their league. Your nightmare has only just begun.BYU,
on the other hand, has deep pockets, 400k living alumni, 15 million members of
their school's "Sponsoring Institution", ESPN, Legacy and a
National Brand, so they will easily match anything Texas, Michigan, Florida,
Oregon, Stanford or Alabama does regarding increasing players benefits.And if the other 63 D-1 schools start their own division and refuse to play
the snooty Elite P-5, not only in football but every other sport, then...do
tell...Ute fan, how Utah will ever win 3 games a year, let alone achieving their
"Nirvana", of a 6 win season?The only thing the U should
concern itself with is the rapidly approaching reality of being a have not,
within their own league.
Goodbye title IX. Football will be the only program left on the hill and noone
will be able afford to buy tickets. Utah, WSU, and Colorado will be the big
losers as they will not be able to compete with the established programs for
players and budgets.BYU will be just fine. They have a following that
extends beyond a few square miles along the foothills of SLC like the u. They
are a national brand and will continue to be well into the future.Don't get too excited yet u fans, the fallout is coming and I don't
think you will like it.
Mister JWhat's priceless is seeing Utah fans thinking
they're on their high horse, when in reality, they've been pushed to
the bottom of the heap, their brief nine-year bowl streak now becoming nothing
but a distant memory, while BYU looks forward to extending their second longest
bowl streak to 10 years.
Goodbye to college sports as we know them. Ticket prices will skyrocket when
they have to start to pay players and many fans will not be able to afford
season tickets. Players will be able to behave anyway they want without any
fear of punishment and schools can violate recruiting rules without fear of
sanctions. It's all coming. Be careful what you wish for b ecause you may
just get it.
re: Chris B[How's all that "trying" going for you
guys?]Do or do not. There is no try. - Yoda
to JCS...Out of chaos comes order. Look at Switzerland & Italy
in the middle ages and what they are famous for now.That said, its
priceless to see byu fans still on their high horse as they grow more & more
distant in the rear view mirror.
SoonerUte,From the same ESPN article I quoted from earlier:
"Leagues outside the Power Five can opt to adopt the same rules."So, leagues outside the P5 can adopt these rules. BYU, being independent
will most likely be able to decide if they want to adopt these rules. That is
the logical conclusion anyway. You already conceded that BYU can afford these
new rules. It is quite obvious they will be allowed to follow them. This will
not hurt BYU, and in the long run may well help BYU.
The negative unintended consequences will be huge! One I predict will be
another whole round(s) of conference re-alighnments. You could see bottom
dwellers like Utah, CU, K-State, NC State and others on the outs, while the P5
go after more relevant and competitive teams, like the Boise State's and
BYU's of the world! This story line is way from over.As some one
stated, "be careful of what you ask for, because you might just get it!"
@jeremy234Explain this statement"Utah will be fine,
now that they have access to a split of PAC money. Schools like BYU...will never
again be able to compete against them for recruits however."What
is your logic behind that statement? Do you have any? Just making ignorant
statements of that sort doesn't speak paricularly well to the education
being given at the university of utah. Just saying something is going to occur
with nothing to back up your claim makes you look like you are just making an
emotional statement based on prejudice.BYU has a better source of
funding than utah does, more stable and much more that can be provided if
needed. BYU is funded and run by what would be the equivalent of one of the
largest corporations in the entire world, multi billions every single year, an
organization that is so well managed that the prospect of not being able to pay
what is needed is virtually non existant.utah on the otherhand is
owned by a state government. Really that is all that needs to be said.
'He who has the gold makes the rules' and the P5 know it. If this is
shot down by the majority, then P5 will leave NCAA. The other conferences
(schools) will have less then than they have now.
@schnee - amusing way you put that, your comment makes it sound like
they're already paying their players!
The only reason that Utah is near 0 profit margin is because of all the new
buildings they're constructing (football and basketball facilities).
They're getting double the revenue from the latter MWC years and with that
extra money they're spending it on this stuff. If they had to account for
paying student athletes a bit more they can adjust.
@sooner - from an espn article: Leagues outside the Power Five can opt to adopt
the same rules.Sounds like any other conference/team would just need
to submit a proposal by Oct 1 just like the p5 conferences will.
This is such a great idea, we should also give more voting power to taxpayers
who pay more in taxes . . . oh, wait, hmm, let me think about that . . .
@sooner - the NCAA will die a quick death if they allow p5 schools to act
differently from any other D-1 school. NCAA board probably said it like they
did because the p5 and Notre Dame were the ones asking and pressing for it.
duck,Bronco today is quoted as saying byu will "try" to
match whatever the big boys decide in terms of additional compensation and
benefits to players.Kind of like how byu is "trying" to get
into the big 12.How's all that "trying" going for you
Coungsdawgs, Duckhunter, probably others @ "as far as BYU in particular is
concerned, well they can afford to do all of these things"BYU
may be able to afford these things, but are they ALLOWED to do these things?The article says "The NCAA Board of Governors' voted to grant
autonomy Thursday to the five biggest revenue-producing FBS conferences and
Notre Dame"I don't see that BYU was granted autonomy.
I can guarantee that the majority of fans in this state are BYU fans. We will
not stand for our legislature to give money to the U so that they can pay their
athletes. What needs to happen is someone needs to get wise and start cutting
these sports that cannot support themselves. That means that everything but
mens basketball and football becomes a "club sport." It makes me laugh
that you Ute fans think that the people of Utah, and the LDS church, are going
to keep losing money supporting the 11th best sports program in the PAC (we wish
we would have got Texas and Oklahoma, but had to settle for utah and colorado
Jeremy234You obviously don't understand the economics at play
here.There's a reason why BYU has had a 65,000 seat stadium for
over 30 years, while Utah has never had the funds to expand their crackbox of a
stadium.There's a reason why BYU's athletic depart
operates in the black, while Utah's operates in the red.BYU has
the resources to absorb the added expense of providing full cost of attendance
stipends, increased health insurance, and guaranteeing 4-year scholarships; Utah
I love the ute fans celebrating this. Once the P5 gets rid of the mid-majors,
then the Texas, Oklahoma, USC, Oregon, and Alabama's of the world get a
hold of the money, they will be able to start outbidding the lower end P5. Then,
Utah fans (like in 2004 and 2008) will cry about being left out, just like BYU
and other institutions are complaining about now. My how far the
Utah apple has fallen from the tree.
Utah will be fine, now that they have access to a split of PAC money. Schools
like BYU, Boise and USU will never again be able to compete against them for
recruits however. This also will not be a "bidding war" as the teams
have a set amount that they can pay. Go Utes!
I don't think this is a bad thing. Just ignore christina's and other
like minded utah "fans" irrational exuberance over this and look at it
logically.First of all many of the things these so called p5
conferences want are good things, increasing the value of scholarships is a good
thing, expanding healthcare for these athletes is a good thing, guarnteeing a 4
year scholarship is also a good thing. Unfortunately they had no chance of being
accomplished with the current makeup of the NCAA because schools with less
funding wouldn't do it. But there are schools outsied the p5
that are in better positions to cover those costs than some of the so called p5
schools, BYU is a good example, and for them this is either no big deal or else
a positive. No one say's those other schools can't also make those
changes it is just that the p5 schools can make the changes without having to
fight with the other schools about doing it.But keep in mind there
are plenty of p5 schools, most in fact, that are already in the
BYU naysayers are in for a big surprise in this day and age of equality in all
things.Sit back and enjoy the ride because a major storm is a brewing in college
@ Utah fans,You can't seriously believe this is a blow to BYU.
BYU is a privately funded University with deeper pockets than any state school.
It's the public schools that need to watch out. It's the same reason
why private high schools have plenty of money to go around while public high
schools are left to the scraps the state can scrounge up. Good luck
convincing the tax payers of Utah to pay what the big schools/private schools
Dutchman"Not to worry folks. If you truly followed the sports
news you would know that Utah AD Chris Hill has supported the "full cost of
attendance" idea for a long time and for all athletes and he has never once
suggested that the money would come from state funds."So, if
Utah's athletic department is already operating in the red, what hidden
source of funds is he going to use?Or are you just spouting off
without any clue about how Chris Hill is going to pay for this?
From another article on this subject, on ESPN:"Several
presidents said Thursday that the full cost-of-attendance stipends, which could
be worth between $2,000 and $5,000 per player, likely would be the first item
taken up.""Other new rules the biggest conferences could
enact include loosened restrictions involving contact between players and
agents, letting players pursue outside paid career opportunities, and covering
expenses for players' families to attend postseason games."Those are all things BYU can (and likely will) keep up with the so called
"big boys" on. So, Chris B and other BYU haters. This will not leave BYU
in the dust or anything close to it. I am not familiar enough with USU's
financial situation to know if they will be able to keep up with the changing
standards or not, but I certainly hope they can. It may, however, help BYU
distance itself from most other so called non P5 teams, and in so doing help BYU
prove that we do belong with the big boys. And do it all by themselves, not
because the Pac 12 needs a 12th member so they can have a conference
championship game, and they were turned down by Texas and Oklahoma.
@BayAreaCougar - you're spot on here. If college football fans think
conference affiliations will remain static they're seriously mistaken.
There is no way that things stay like this for the next 20 years. The haves
will segregate themselves from those in the conferences not pulling their own
weight or who can't afford to upgrade facilities or pay an ever-increasing
stipend amount. It's spiraling out of control now and the NCAA has lost
any control it ever held.@ChrisB - I'm glad you're pleased
but this cannot and will not last. Conferences will realign and some schools
will be left out of the mix. Imagine a huge conference like the PAC wanted a
few years ago...take Texas over Utah and the like. Utah will be left out in the
cold.I suppose all this will just push liability from the NCAA down
to the conferences and universities, I have a hard time believing university
Presidents will like the fallout.
"The emperor has no clothes." The P5 power gluttons have signed their
own death certificate. While they are thinking they have created something
grand, the castle is crumbling around them. How valid is a "national
championship" when it comes from a field of 65 teams? Most likely, the teams
without the resources to competitively bid for players services, will start to
withdraw from those conferences. That will leave a group of about 30 teams. This
will continue until just a handful of teams are left in the sandbox. The other
200+ teams will move on and create their own more rational and satisfying
(equitable) system and be content with playing for the joy of fair competition,
and crown their own champion. Considering the majority of the schools and the
majority of the nations fans will be cheering for one of those schools, who do
you think the people will recognize as "their champion"? I
see the remaining schools banding together and voting out the handful of elitist
pigs, and moving forward with a fair and equitable system. Autonomy to the
christy"65 teams will be part of the future of division I
football."And where do you think Utah will end up on the list of
65 teams?Here's a clue.The Utes have never finished
with a winning record in the PAC 12.Add three more P5 opponents to
Utah's 9-game conference schedule, and the Utes are doomed to finishing
below .500 with no bowl EVER.If I were you, I'd stop obsessing
about how this will affect BYU, and start worrying about how devastating this
could be to Utah's chances of ever be able to finish with a winning record
Chrissy:Schools that can afford the changes will make them and move
forward. I know you want to live in myopic bliss thinking BYU is going away.
Sorry to burst your crimson bubble but as others have already stated BYU is in a
better fiscal situation than Utah. This legislation may actually hurt Utah more
than BYU which I find hilarious given your obvious misunderstanding of the
issues that were actually voted on by the NCAA. In many ways these changes may
actually put BYU ahead of U. Utah is already in the red, and you're
rejoicing about the fact they will now have to pay players stipends to remain
competitive? Obviously someone didn't attend their economics 101 class.
This is terrible news for the amazing parity we've seen lately in college
sports. We'll now see a handful of p5 teams all over major media outlets
and the mid-major conferences will be left to negotiate local contracts with no
hope of anything national.If ESPN doesn't renew the contract I
think BYU should put football on BYUtv and go its own way.
Not to worry folks. If you truly followed the sports news you would know that
Utah AD Chris Hill has supported the "full cost of attendance" idea for
a long time and for all athletes and he has never once suggested that the money
would come from state funds.
This is the bottom line: The "big" "power 5" schools are (a)
greedy, and (b) afraid to lose their power and control to parity. So they are
doing everything they can to keep all the money they can in their control, and
to shut out schools that aren't already in their circle (even when many of
the already-in schools are smaller or less competitive than outsider
schools).Look at the NCAA tourney. A pretty level playing field.
Every conference gets at least one team into the tourney. What happens? The
"big boys" often get whupped on. And every year there is more parity,
which means, drum roll... More revenue sharing! Waaaaaa....Here is
the true solution to college football: A real playoff with 16 teams, one from
each FBS conference, plus a few at-large. INSTANTLY the regular season's
meaningfulness would skyrocket. Conference realignment would cease (after an
initial reshuffling). And competitive balance and fairness would be established.
ekute,At some point it is likely that the PAC12 would fragment with
the schools that can fiscally afford to compete (Stanford, USC, UCLA, Oregon and
Washington) not wanting to share there revenue with schools that can't
fiscally compete. Utah is more likely to become a have not in this scenario then
BYU.Utah State might have a better chance of surviving since they
will know how to survive without the PAC12 money.When Utah has to
compete on a "Pay for Play" world with larger purses pursuing players
Utah will miss out on even more athletes. The cream of the P5
won't really care about the dregs of the P5 eventually. I would be foolish
to believe that BYU would all the sudden have an advantage but since it does not
have a Title IX obligation it can shift resources easier than other schools. If BYU and the LDS Church want football the compete, it will. I
don't think that Utah will have a choice, in that scenario.
Reality check Chris BThe death sentence could be to University of
Utah sports.Utah is headed over the fiscal cliff with a maintenance
backlog that tops $400 million and an ever-increasing backlog of needed and
costly deferred maintenance.If you can't even afford to repair
your crumbling classrooms, how are you going to be able to justify paying
football players "walking around money"?
ekuteWho's really the "have not" here?The
school whose athletic department operates in the black and will be able to
afford the added expense of paying players a little "walking around
money".orThe school whose athletic department
already operates in the red and will be forced to beg the Utah legislature for
more money? That expanded stadium that Utah fans were hoping for will be the
65 teams will be part of the future of division I football. And we
can be happy one and only one of them is in Utah!Mid majors: enjoy
your new division III am so happy!
Will a non Big 5 conference Div I football team with no losses ever play for the
national championship against a Big 5 team with 1 loss? I don't think so.
So the NCAA is now effectively broken into two pieces. This will not end well.
Things will unravel even more.I see lawsuits coming.
christyWhat this is is the death knell to Utah's hopes of ever
being able to crawl out of the PAC 12 basement.The Utes will never
be able to win a bidding war with the big boys of the P5 conferences.Big money schools like USC, UCLA, Stanford and Oregon have cemented their
status as the top dogs of the conference, leaving schools like Utah, Colorado
and Washington State to fight for scraps at the bottom of the conference.
The NCAA has just turned over the duty to the fox the duty of guarding the
henhouse. There will be no rules, and chaos will reign.No system can
last under this type of chaos. As Abraham Lincoln famously stated "Whenever
the vicious portion of the population shall be permitted to gather in bands of
hundreds and thousands, and burn churches, ravage and rob provision stores,
throw printing presses into rivers, shoot editors, and hang and burn obnoxious
persons at pleasure, and with impunity; depend on it, this government cannot
If this governance structure gets coupled with the P5 teams scheduling only
other P5 teams then it will be interesting to see how long the Utah fans stay
thrilled with being a "big boy" when their team racks up 2 or 3 win
seasons decade after decade. Will being a P5 body bag really be that big of a
thrill year after year after year after year . . . . .?
This is the worst possible news for fans of College football. Teams like the
University of Utah cannot afford the increased costs that this will bring. The
U may end up dropping the minor men sports and just enough women's sports
to be compliant with Title IX.The U was not operating in the black
for the last several years. With the increased costs of fielding football they
will struggle even more against the big boys.
"What starts as a movement eventually becomes a business, and ends up a
racket." Sounds like the NCAA to me.I'm a big college
football fan, and of college sports in general, and I don't see any way
this is beneficial for broader collegiate athletics. If what you
want your school's football program to be is a de-facto farm team for the
NFL, then great. If all you care about is seeing "your team" on TV on
Saturdays, wonderful. But that's not supposedly the charter of higher
education. Make the NFL and the NBA establish a farm team system like Major
League Baseball has, and give the "student-athletes" that are only in
school for the chance of playing for money later have a way to get there without
having to be warehoused at college while they hone their craft. Seriously--somebody explain to me how continuing to increase the disparity of
money in collegiate sports is a net benefit?
ekute / christyActually, the true loser here is Utah, whose athletic
budget is already in the red and will be hard-pressed to convince the state of
Utah to increase funding so that it can be spent on something so frivolous as
Utah trying to keep up with the big boys of college football.
BayAreaCougar,Don't worry, as a have-not, byu will still have
women's golf and lacrosse.
Let's be forthright about what's happening (and been happening) in the
NCAA a for a long time now. Big cash rules. Now, the power brokers that be, have
circumvented fairness in the overall bowl championship again. I believe
that, in essence, college sports is already a pseudo professional entity that
could go the way of what the Olympic athletes have gone, blatantly giving up the
facade of amateurism and becoming officially professionals. Admit it people.
VegasUte"I hope it comes from state funds..."Don't count on it.The state has far more pressing needs than
providing "walking around money" to a bunch of spoiled football
players.If Utah can't afford to fund this out of athletic
funds, their athletes will just have to become those left on the outside looking
in, while schools that have learned to live within their budget, are able to
afford "keeping up with the Joneses".
This is a death sentence for any mid major that has dreams of ever being a big
boy!The mid majors do not like this. But guess what? We
do not care!I couldn't care less that this hurts byu and usu.
in fact, this is a win win. This makes power concerns football a
step forward and a huge step back for mid majors. And we love it!
Goodbye byu and Wyoming and usu.
"Once this train has left the station its going to be impossible to stop
it."And it looks like byu missed it.
This a huge!Huge in a positive way for the big boys And
a huge blow to the irrelevant mid majors like Provo an Logan Add
this to the espn article about big boy colleges moving towards only playing
other big boys and the future of WAC teams likes byu and usu is very much in
jeopardy It's a very good time to be with the big boys and a
bad time to be outside!Byu is getting farther and farther away from
relevancy by the day!I love my PAC 12 membership. Bye
bye mid majors!
I hope it comes from state funds so that byU fans will be paying for our
football players' "walking around money"! That would be
I think that Whatsnu has a point. Programs will be cut, maybe not football but
because of Title IX you can't cut a women's team without having an
impact on a men's team. Schools with deeper pockets will be
able to fund more teams but what happens when there are only 5 golf teams in the
NCAA? Sports like golf and tennis maybe the first casualties but there are many
sports that will be cut that provide great educational opportunities for
athletes that have nothing to do with football and basketball. Greed is a sin
that hurts those around you and yourself. The P5 conferences need to keep their
greed in check.As a BYU fan I know that the sponsoring institution
has more money to put into athletics if push comes to shove then Utah and Utah
State's sponsoring institution (the state of Utah). In the long run this
could be the end of intercollegiate athletics in all but one school in Utah. Beware of the unintended consequences of your choices, and don't
In other words the new Division I-A will consist of 65 teams and everyone else
will be second class citizens.
I don't know. Where did the money come from before?
I like the idea of paying players enough so that they have a little "walking
around" money to go to a movie, to go out to dinner, or simply not have to
feel like a pauper, but this could easily get out of hand.It's
unreasonable to assume that the NCAA will be able to restrict this only to
athletes in revenue-producing sports. There are probably lawyers out their right
now preparing to file lawsuits in behalf of men's minor sports and women
athletes, and judges who would be more than willing to rule in their favor.Once this train has left the station its going to be impossible to stop
An extra $2000 to help cover educational expenses is doable; but what if the P5s
vote to make that amount unlimited, allowing schools like Texas and Ohio St and
Alabama and USC to literally out bid cash-strapped schools, like Utah, for
There's an old saying, be careful what you wish for.The P5s
will now have the power to pass the legislation they want to, but they'll
also be responsible for the consequences.Paying athletes and
increasing health insurance seems like a good idea, but that could open a whole
can of worms for minor and women's sports. If every football
player is paid an additional $2000 to cover college expenses, shouldn't
every women's lacrosse player also be paid an additional $2000 to cover
their college expenses?The athletic budgets of the majority of P5
teams, including Utah, already operate in the red, so where's the extra
money going to come from?