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Published: Thursday, Aug. 7 2014 10:49 a.m. MDT

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2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Re "How many executions in the U.S. are botched?
The BBC defines a botched execution as one in which something happens during the procedure that doesn't conform to protocol, which may lead to a painful or prolonged death."...

Answer: 3% of the time.

I wonder how many victims of people on death row suffered a "painful or prolonged death". Probably more than 3%.

===================

IMO the death penalty is a terrible thing, and shouldn't be taken lightly. But when it's justified... we need to keep in mind what the death row inmate did and why he/she's there, and remember their victims.

There's only ONE way you can get on death row, and that's murder. And it has to be an especially vicious, depraved, and violent murder at too. Most murders won't get you there.

airnaut
Everett, 00

Ironically --
The Pro-Life, Pro-Gun are the most supportive of the DEATH Penalty.

Meanwhile --
Does anyone else wonder why America is joined with backward, opressive governments liek Iran, Somalia, North Korea, China, etc. in Death Penalities,

While the rest of the Civilized Modern world has done away with it?

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "Does anyone else wonder why America is joined with backward, op[p]ressive governments . . . ?

Liberals do. It's a matter of unmitigated embarrassment to them, that the US has had the good sense to laugh off cynical attempts by international, leftist, pro-crime elements -- like the UN -- to shame us into abandoning a valid, historically effective crime deterrent.

The left constantly harangues real America for being too hard on real criminals, suggesting some of those punished might possibly be innocent. Yet it proudly, aggressively, adamantly stands for a barbarous "freedom" to kill millions of the truly, inarguably innocent.

Let's make a deal -- if liberals will give up abortion of the innocent, real Americans will give up the death penalty for criminals.

Deal?

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Ironically --
Most people who are OK with killing unborn babies (who did nothing wrong)... can't tolerate the idea of having a death penalty for the most depraved murderers in our society.

How ironic is that... OK to kill innocent babies... but not murderers?

===========

While we're comparing America with oppressive governments like China, etc... Abortion is approved in China, in fact it's the law (remember their one-child law)...

So what I'm saying is... there's plenty of irony to go around on this one...

===========

IMO.. when you do certain things with your life (like raping, torturing, and then killing innocent people)... you have "earned" the death penalty.

There SHOULD be consequences for our behavior. And the type of behavior that lands you on death row... demands the death penalty (IMO)

Esquire
Springville, UT

3% are botched. There are innocent people on death row. Going through the process is more costly than lifetime incarceration. The death penalty is proven to not be a deterrent. Instead of continuing this charade of vengeance, it's time we abolish the death penalty.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: ". . . it's time we abolish the death penalty."

So, let's engage in that mandatory liberal sacrament -- compromise. Liberals will give up abortion of innocents. Conservatives will give up the death penalty for criminals.

As liberals have bleated for decades, to refuse to compromise is un-American.

Where's your spirit of compromise? Your patriotism?

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@procuradorfiscal
"historically effective crime deterrent."

That's not true.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

@Esquire,
#1. 3% are botched...
True. No process is perfect.

#2. There are innocent people on death row...
True. Again no process is perfect.

#3. Going through the process is more costly than lifetime incarceration....
Not necessarily true, but it IS expensive (and it should be). Still we don't stop doing things because its expensive... or we would have no prisons, and many other things the government does.

#4. The death penalty is proven to not be a deterrent...
False. I've yet to see a person who received the death penalty re-offend. It's a deterrent for anybody who gets the death penalty.

It's a deterrent for most people. There are some hardened people who care so little about human life that it's not a deterrent. For these people... what can we do???

Again... no process is perfect...

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My main concern is innocent people on death row.

IMO We should have a VERY VERY high standard for getting the death penalty. Like absolutely no doubt he did it. Like being caught in the act, unquestionable eye witnesses to the murder, conclusive DNA evidence, etc ...

MaxPower
Eagle Mountain, UT

@2bits

#2. There are innocent people on death row...
True. Again no process is perfect.

=============

2bits, you and I seldom agree, but I respect your opinions. You seem more concerned with discussion then bumper sticker quotes and sound bites. Thank you; you show that reasonable people can disagree and discuss.

To the point above and your point about the need for a VERY, VERY high standard, I agree. Executing one innocent is the worst travesty we as a nation can commit, and if it has happened one time (and sadly it has) we need to seriously evaluate as to whether or not it should continue.

In the end, when all is said and done there is very little difference between Life in Prison with No Parole and a Death Sentence. Either way you die in prison, it's just a matter of when, and one leaves an opportunity for partial restitution if the convicted were later found to be innocent.

I can sympathize for grieving families, but even the death of the criminal will not begin to be a restitution for what they have done. Shedding more blood only results in more death, not restitution.

Sentence them to hard labor.

Esquire
Springville, UT

@ 2 bits, come on. Yes, a dead person won't re-offend, but that's not the point of deterrence. Don't try to be cute. You know well that the deterrence argument is for those out there who have not yet killed. Don't you?

Note this: The U.S. has the highest incarceration rate in the world. Does any of that stop crime? Doesn't seem so. Maybe the problem lies elsewhere in our society.

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@2bits
"I've yet to see a person who received the death penalty re-offend. It's a deterrent for anybody who gets the death penalty."

You know better, we're talking about deterrents from violent crimes happening in the first place.

Stalwart Sentinel
San Jose, CA

procuradorfiscal - Typically, two opposing views will compromise when the opposing concerns are equally valid. Liberals don't want to kill individuals who are undeniably living, breathing human beings. However, a fetus is not considered to be a living, breathing human being according to the US Constitution. Neither does the vast majority of the professional medial community see a fetus as a living human. Further, even the Bible supports the notion that a fetus is not equal with the life of a human being (see "first breath" doctrine as well as Exodus 21:22-23). Indeed, the LDS Church approves of abortions for multiple reasons which can be interpreted either as the Church's admission that abortion is not murder or that the Mormon church officially supports the murder of innocents - I tend to side with the former of those options.

So, given that US jurisprudence, the medical community, and even the Bible disagree with you - by what standard do you assert that a fetus is a living person?

My spirit of compromise is alive and well; however, to use a Biblical reference, we ought not throw pearls before swine.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Esquire and Schnee,

I wanted to point out that it IS a 100% successful deterrent for those who get this punishment (they won't offend again. 100% guaranteed).

You said "it isn't a deterrent"... I wanted to point out that IT IS... At least for SOME people.

I DID address the less cheeky case too. (Read 2nd paragraph item #4).

I said, "It's a deterrent for MOST people. There are some hardened people who care so little about human life that it's not a deterrent. For these people... what can we do???"...

Probably should have kept it in the same paragraph, but wanted to differentiate what type of deterrent it is for the different types of people (1. those who did the crime and got the penalty, 2. those who decided not to even do the crime, 3. those who decide they don't care and do the crime anyway).

I acknowledged that it isn't a deterrent for a small percentage of society that care nothing about human lives, (their own or others). Read the second paragraph of point #4.

Bottom line.. it IS a deterrent... for about 99% of the population.

the greater truth
Bountiful, UT

#Schnee

The death penalty is punishment,

how you punish a first degree murderer is all that matters,

it is totally and completely irrelevant (but a bonus) if it deters.

how does jail time justify any crime?

10CC
Bountiful, UT

@procuradorfiscal

The most knowledgeable death penalty proponents admit there is no deterrent effect. There have been enough executions that if a deterrent effect existed, it would show up in the statistics.

It simply doesn't.

Pops
NORTH SALT LAKE, UT

The reason we should have a death penalty can be summed up in one word. That word is "justice."

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

Pops
NORTH SALT LAKE, UT
The reason we should have a death penalty can be summed up in one word. That word is "justice."

9:51 a.m. Aug. 8, 2014

=========

I beg to differ,
The reason we should NOT have a death penalty;

The atonement of Jesus Christ did away with the shedding of blood.
i.e., Justice.

gmlewis
Houston, TX

There are quite a few comments that call abortion the moral equivalent of murder. For that to be so, the motive of the ones taking away the life have to be the same.

A mother who is in danger of dying in childbirth, where the baby also will die, may elect an abortion as a remedy to a desperate situation. This is definitely not the same motive of a murderer.

There are many natural situations that result in the fetus dying in the womb. Surely the Lord has a merciful plan for such.

A fetus becomes a living being when its immortal spirit enters the body. If that body dies in the womb, we have hope that this spirit will inhabit a different fetal body thereafter. However, if the fetus is born and subsequently dies, the spirit will regain that body in the resurrection.

the greater truth
Bountiful, UT

@Open Minded Mormon

Actually it didn't.

IT just made it possible to gain forgiveness, if you repent, for sins that can be forgiven.

How do you repent for first degree murder without justice being met?

Stalwart Sentinel
San Jose, CA

It's strikes me as hilarious that the commentators herein calling for "justice" appear to be almost exclusively partial to the conservative side of the political spectrum (they can correct me if that assumption is incorrect).

Yet, their form of "justice" seems only skin deep. In fact, I interpret their support for the death penalty under the guise of "justice" as actually meaning "eye for an eye" - which is not justice, particularly when considering Christian scripture.

I truly love to see the disparity in opinions here because it shows one's true colors. The reality is that conservatives continue to live under Mosaic Law, therefore rejecting the New Law provided by Jesus Christ - whom they ironically claim to follow most zealously. By contrast, we liberals - who are often labeled as immoral and/or anti-religious - are the ones more willing to adopt the teachings of Christ and apply them even to the most deplorable humans - murderers on death row. Matthew 6 comes to mind.

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