Cap would only benefit those making more than $250,000
@Worf...Read my retort to @Red Shirt. Possibly you could give specific examples
of what freedoms and liberties have been "modified" by our President as
a result of the passage of the ACA rather more Faux News regurgitation via D.N.
@Red Shirt...I'm still waiting for your retort but all I seem to hear is
@Red Shirt...If people like myself which share liberal political ideologies
were allowed the same opportunity and platform on this forum as yourself and the
regular neo-con intellectuals I assure you would have heard my retort much
sooner. First. Could you please site specific examples of freedoms that liberals
have taken away from you directly as a result of the ACA as you so eloquently
stated? Second. Can you list specific examples of health care costs rising 42%
as a result of the ACA being passed? After intense deliberation and
investigation how did you come to 42%? Third. Have you experienced any personal
involvement with the ACA? Fourth. Have you ever needed to drain retirement
accounts in order to pay for necessary medical expenses? Fifth. Have you ever
been dropped by any insurance provider (6 days prior to surgery) for any reason
whatsoever? In closing, rather repeating back a.m. talk radio and Faux News
rhetoric that you regurgitate back via D.N. posts possibly engage in factual
research prior to any more repetitive nonsensical partisan posts. We all thank
To "Dragline" but if I am poor or have no desire to buy insurance why
should I buy it?If I am poor you pay 2 times for my insurance. Once
for the subsidies, and a second time because I can't afford the care that I
would have to pay on my deductible for.If just have no desire to pay
for my healthcare, you will not pay for that because hospitals will not give
charity care to somebody that has the means to pay.So, you can pay 2
times for me, or not at all, and I don't have to have insurance because it
costs more to have it than to pay the fine.To
"Jimmytheliberal" why are the liberals so happy to take away our
freedoms and make health care more expensive. You apparently haven't heard
that the ACA raised insurance costs by 42% for the nation, and added all sorts
of taxes to medical device and drug manufacturers. With all of those cost
increases, how does that make health care more affordable?
Why are the usual freedom lovers not concerned about existing freedom
restrictions right here in Utah? As usual the true intellectuals weigh in
without obtaining actual facts. Meanwhile back in reality people across our
nation now have affordable health care for the first time.
What is the IRS (KGB?) going to do if you don't pay your fine, and
there's not enough of a refund to cover it?Close your bank
accounts, or repo your house? Hmm? Jail?
"@rvalens2 - Fascism (the melding of government's laws and
corporations). No, Fascism is not defined as this. And can you please decide if
Obama is a communist or a fascist? Maybe then you will see he is really
neither." - DraglineYou really should study the history of
fascism. The Italian dictator Benito Mussolini (an avowed fascist) called it
"the merger of state and corporate power." I would call the Federal
government ordering me to buy a corporation's product, in this case
insurance, fascism. By the way, if you'll look at what I wrote,
you'll see I never called Obama a fascist nor a communist. You also never
defined your view of what fascism is; since you seem pretty certain that my
interpretation is wrong.If the Federal government can order me to
buy health insurance just because I'm alive, what's next?
For you folks clambering for single-payer, you had better rethink what
you're hoping for. Medicare is a microcosm of government run, single-payer
healthcare. Ask a person on Medicare how often they’re turned down for
medical treatments and surgeries, and how long they’re asked to wait for
certain healthcare treatments.BTW, like most government run programs
Medicare is poorly managed and on the verge of bankruptcy. Those screaming
loudest for single-payer are going to be the ones most disillusioned when it
becomes reality. You're going to find out the sacrifices single-payer is
going to force you to make.Obama has lied about every aspect of
Obamacare, yet his sycophants trust him without question. Totalitarians always
rely on those easily swayed by utopian fantasies.
Obmacare, based on Romneycare is actually more evidence of facism and corporate
control of government. The insurance companies LOVE LOVE LOVE the
mandate for you to buy insurance, but they hate the idea of having to give you
anything for your money. Hobby Lobby is just a tentacle in that plan BTW.Note: Liberals never wanted this plan republicans thought up. If you
like your Medicare, let everyone have it.
@Hutterite and @Dragline have expressed belief that government uses the
fine...err....tax, to cover those who choose not to buy insurance. Since the government is now covering the loses incurred by insurers on the
state & federal market, then you could argue that unpaid bills raise
negotiated rates, but what of the uninsured who pay their own way? Why are they
being penalized? Why assume the uninsured force necessarily force a cost upon
the government.Both of these posters are who misunderstand the ACA.
The fine...err...tax is merely a means to force healthy people who in the past
chose not to buy insurance into subsidizing high risk insures. That is what is
unfair about the ACA and is a large reason why many oppose it.
@ Dragline:The really ironic thing is that even Obama doesn't
seem to know a lot about Obamacare. Remember, if you want to keep your
doctor or your insurance, you can do so... period.Right. And if we
would rather not participate in such a farce, we'll no be charged thousands
of dollars per year.BTW: Obama has been showing signs of
preference for both fascism and communism. But as to his overall preference,
he's still trying to decide on that. He still waffles a lot. Just like
he's done with many (if not most) of campaign promises. After all, his was
promised to be the most transparent administration in history. That's
become a late-night comedy joke. And the promise to cut the federal
deficit in half sounded really good. Instead, he's almost doubled it...
literally. And his energy policies have literally doubled the price of gasoline
from the first day he was elected. And America's traditional
motto of peace through strength is now history. There's hardly a nation in
the world who still considers America a superpower. Our enemies no longer fear
us anymore. We've become a paper tiger.
Funny that most posting here are against Obamacare yet seem to know nothing
about it. @Riverton Cougar says "Then the Supreme Court said it
was unconstitutional as a fine." No, SCOTUS (acutally Roberts) said
the mandate was a tax. And when the majority of SCOTUS says it is Constitutional
then it is.@rvalens2 "Fascism (the melding of government's
laws and corporations) " No, Fascism is not defined as this. And
can you please decide if Obama is a communist or a fascist? Maybe then you will
see he is really neither. @Redshirt "No matter what you call it,
it is still cheaper to pay the fine or tax than it is to actually buy
insurance." But then you have no insurance and we have to pay for
your healthcare.@Hey It's Me "Inmates are exempt because
when I pay my taxes it covers their healthcare while they are in prison. They
get better health care than I do with my plan ! Thank You Obama!" Do
you really think that Obama started paying for prison healthcare? Really? Obamacare has problems, but let's keep the conversation focused and
Such hyperbole from the freedom crowd! If only they were as concerned about
freedom constraints locally... Utah's hypocrisy is almost endearing.
It's a reality that some people will simply refuse to accept responsibilty
for themself no matter how much the fine, tax or punishment. I'm not sure
its as high as 47% but it's significant none the less. Then again we have
local, elected politicans that won't even accept responsibilty for the
mortgages they legally entered into. Seems we can find irresponsible people
throughout all segments of our country.
Fascism (the melding of government's laws and corporations) has come to
America. We are no longer a free people once the government can order us to buy
a service or a product, just because we are alive.And please
don't respond with, "Well, you're required to buy car
insurance." There is no requirement to own or drive a car in America.
I'll pay the fine. Once it gets beyond what I can afford to pay, they call
haul me off to prison and provide me with free health care.
RedShirt: "No matter what you call it, it is still cheaper to pay the fine
or tax than it is to actually buy insurance."Don't worry.
The fines will keep increasing every year until that is no longer true. The only
question is how long it will take for the massive fine increases to exceed the
massive insurance premium increases under Obamacare.
The 'fines' represent an offset of the cost people who refuse to get
insurance impose on government for medical care they can't simply pay for.
I'd bet they don't even cover that. Instead of imposing fines,
let's get rid of insurance. Replace it with a single payer health care
system, cover everyone, and save money.
No matter what you call it, it is still cheaper to pay the fine or tax than it
is to actually buy insurance.
Obamacare was never about providing affordable healthcare to the American
people. This is the reason, collection of fines to finance a broke government.
Inmates are exempt because when I pay my taxes it covers their healthcare while
they are in prison. They get better health care than I do with my plan ! Thank
So I'm confused as to whether it is a tax or a fine. Obama promised us it
was a fine, not a tax. Then the Supreme Court said it was unconstitutional as a
fine. So either Obamacare is unconstitutional, or else Obama is a liar.The law Obama could only get passed by calling it a "fine" is
unconstitutional, and the constitutional version of the law (it being a tax, not
a fine) could not have passed. The Supreme Court essentially made Obama a liar.
Wow! Let me see, I am fined if I don't have insurance, fined if I
don't have a permit to use Federal Land, fined if I drive to fast on the
Federal Highways. Won't be long until we will become like China and be in
trouble for having children.
Thank you Obama for your care.Our freedoms, and liberties have been
Fine? I thought the Obama Admin and Chief Justice Roberts determined it to be a
'tax'. I'm so glad that I as a citizen in good standing can be
fined, wait..taxed, wait...fined, to subsidize someone else's healthcare.
Just because the rest of the world choose to provide sub standard
government health care to their citizens doesn't make it right or proper
for us to do so. Private health care providers have an incentive to create a
product that consumers want. if there wasn't so much regulation, collusion
and lobbying between the government and large insurance companies, there
wouldn't have been so many people left without affordable health care
options supplemented with catastrophic insurance.