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Faith

After government topples crosses in China, congregations react with defiance

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  • Eliyahu Pleasant Grove, UT
    July 30, 2014 8:20 a.m.

    I'm flabbergasted at the people here who are claiming that President Obama and the government are persecuting them and their religion because they aren't allowed to discriminate against others as they would like. To compare any restrictions in the ACA to the persecution of religious beliefs around the world is unbelievable. A look at reports from other nations shows people sentenced to death for converting, mosques, churches and synagogues blown up or burned down, people driven from their homes for their beliefs, children taken from their families because of religion, women suffering genital mutilation because of someone else's beliefs, and much more. If you want to feel persecuted, go to North Korea or Saudi Arabia and start handing out bibles to people, or try building a synagogue in Iraq. It's like going to a group of people who've been beaten half to death or had family members killed for their faith and telling them "I'm suffering too. Someone was rude to me because of my belief." Get a grip, folks. We've got it great here.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    July 30, 2014 8:13 a.m.

    Objectified said: "While people are fighting the government in China to put crosses up, some people in America are fighting the government to bring them down."

    Not off churches but off public land, can't see the difference, look to Iran, or another theocracy for sympathy.

    Hopefully, enough people will remain vigilant and not let our government quietly take them away one at a time, which they sometimes attempt to do under the false premise of supposedly knowing what's best for us.

    Take what away? People for their thoughts? Religion? or public monies spent on private religious opinion in a public square?

    The fear and loathing that radio brings to your life, how's that working out, any new advances on tinfoil hat technology?

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    July 30, 2014 7:25 a.m.

    So is Hobby Lobby still going to buy all their products from China, or is that a different moral issue that can be ignored to increase their bottom line.

  • Objectified Richfield, UT
    July 29, 2014 11:21 a.m.

    @ Jamescmeyer:

    Thanks for your comment. That's an excellent point you brought up indicating a noticeable irony in our society.

    While people are fighting the government in China to put crosses up, some people in America are fighting the government to bring them down. Very ironic.

    That particular thought and comparison makes me appreciate our freedoms in America just a little bit more than I already do... which is a lot!

    Hopefully, enough people will remain vigilant and not let our government quietly take them away one at a time, which they sometimes attempt to do under the false premise of supposedly knowing what's best for us.

  • Jamescmeyer Midwest City, USA, OK
    July 29, 2014 9:17 a.m.

    While people in China fight to put up crosses despite the oppresive government, people in America seek to use government to force us to take crosses down. Ironically they insist it's a matter of freedom.

  • Brio Alpine, UT
    July 28, 2014 12:22 p.m.

    I've heard and read several great talks over the past few years about how there is a general and gradual worldwide movement to suppress individual religious freedoms. This story from China is a prime example.

    Larger governments that keep growing tend to start taking anti-religion stances. Religions tend to take moral stances regarding applicable laws while government likes all things to be kept amoral. Both attitudes effect our individual, everyday lives in one direction or the other.

    The basis for the very founding of our country was people seeking religious freedoms that could not be found elsewhere. It continued being important enough that it was guaranteed in the very first amendment to the Constitution.

    We need to be vigilant that those freedoms aren't compromised and endangered one small step at a time as various laws are passed. There are few things more important than the liberty to worship God according to the dictates of our individual consciences, with respect to our fellowman.

    Most people on earth will agree that mankind does have a Creator. To be able to worship that Creator in a personal way is of utmost importance to me and my family.

  • Northern Logan, UT
    July 28, 2014 8:13 a.m.

    Good for the man willing to stand up to religious bigotry, especially when it is a dictatorship that rules by fear.

  • FanOfTheSith Vernal, UT
    July 28, 2014 12:45 a.m.

    lost in DC
    West Jordan, UT
    what the Chinese government is doing there is only what BO, harry reid, patty murray and hutterite would like to do here. actually when considering the vitriole they have launched against religion through Obamacare, they are figuratively doing it here

    I really hope that we are not that gullible and naive to let that happen.

  • the truth Holladay, UT
    July 26, 2014 8:06 p.m.

    @Lightbearer

    Tell that to the German family who left Germany so they home teach their children according to their beliefs, and not be forced indoctrinated by the state schools.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    July 26, 2014 4:33 p.m.

    @Lost in DC "what the Chinese government is doing there is only what BO, harry reid, patty murray and hutterite would like to do here. actually when considering the vitriole they have launched against religion through Obamacare, they are figuratively doing it here."

    Absolute nonsense. Now in China you see what REAL opposition to religious freedom is.

  • Lightbearer Brigham City, UT
    July 26, 2014 2:30 a.m.

    Re: "Thank God for the first amendment. A guaranteed freedom which doesn't exist in any other country as we enjoy it."

    Article 4 of the German constitution (Grundgesetz, Basic Law):

    "(1) Freedom of faith and of conscience, and freedom to profess a religious or philosophical creed, shall be inviolable.

    "(2) The undisturbed practice of religion shall be guaranteed.

    "(3) No person shall be compelled against his conscience to render military service involving the use of arms. Details shall be regulated by a federal law."

  • intervention slc, UT
    July 25, 2014 10:47 p.m.

    @truth
    Here is an idea instead of misrepresenting what liberals think why don't you present your case with supporting facts to back it up.

  • the truth Holladay, UT
    July 25, 2014 6:04 p.m.

    @Tolstoy

    Actually actions like china a does towards religion and the religious is exactly where the extreme left in this country wants to take us.

    Where any public expression of religion will be forbidden.

    Thank God for the first amendment. A guaranteed freedom which doesn't exist in any other country as we enjoy it.

    But comments from the left show how their hatred could lead to it being taken it away, as it is currently being done bit by bit, under the guise of leftist version of tolerance and diversity, and civil rights.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    July 25, 2014 4:33 p.m.

    @mike richards

    religious people are not paying for anything the insurance the employees compensation for their labor, I realize that conservative business owners are somehow being charitable for "letting" people toil for minimal compensation while creating wealth the owner but its not charity its charity its earned income of the employee.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    July 25, 2014 4:25 p.m.

    @lost in dc

    So not allowing you to force others to live by your religious dogma through the force of law is now the same as forbidding people from worshiping in their own church? sorry but that is the very definition of overstated.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    July 25, 2014 1:28 p.m.

    Baccus0902,
    “Come on, Please get a grip. How irrational can you be?”

    I guess you missed the many articles about harry, patty, BO, chuckie, pat, etc wanting to overturn portions of the RFRA that the POTUS said prevented Obamacare from forcing religious entities to violate their consciences?

    What the Chinese are doing literally BO and his cabal are attempting figuratively.

    Please tell me how pointing that out is being irrational.

    How do you expect to be taken seriously if you just go into an emotional rampage anytime someone points out BO's faults?

    harry is LDS? Really???

    MidwestMom
    “the so-called religious right”
    A little judgmental, are we?

    You define prejudice as an “unfair” feeling of dislike. So a fair feeling of dislike is OK. I dislike the vast majority of things BO has done and is trying to do to our nation.

    Hutterite,
    I don’t think I have overstated anything; please show me how I am wrong. Yes, rebuild the wall so BO and his ilk will stop forcing the religion of state-ism on us and will stop forcing people to violate their consciences in order to comply with his unpopular laws

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    July 25, 2014 12:18 p.m.

    Lost...I think you've overstated my intentions a bit but thanks for noticing. Have a good weekend, everyone. Mr. Jefferson, build up that wall!

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    July 25, 2014 11:29 a.m.

    Should anyone expect less from a government that has suppressed belief in God? Although China has laws that require the government to respect religion, it disregards those laws whenever it wishes.

    The question people should ask is, "Why"? Why would a government suppress a religion that teaches people to be kind, to help one another, to care for the poor, the sick, the fatherless and the widow? Why would a government destroy the symbol of that religion? What does the government fear?

    Here in America where the 1st Amendment requires the government to allow people to worship God without government interference, why would Obama require that religious people pay 100% of the prescriptions that prevent life? How does Obama reconcile his own legislation with the words of the Constitution? Why does he ignore that document? Why does he fail to protect, as his oath of office requires?

    Governments are temporary. Truth is eternal. Christ is the author of all truth. It would be good if people understood simple concept.

  • Midwest Mom Soldiers Grove, WI
    July 25, 2014 11:01 a.m.

    Well said, Baccus.

    The non-stop contention from the so-called religious right makes me wonder if the decline in church attendance is more of a reaction to negative messages from the "faithful" than it is a shift towards immorality. As one close friend put it, "I have not lost my faith, I've just left my church."

    I am an LDS convert. Looking back on the religion of my upbringing, if I were still in that faith I would probably leave it and it's contentious drama, and be turned off by religion entirely.

    And a note to the "lost" -- "an unfair feeling of dislike towards a person or group" is the definition of prejudice. It's easy to reduce people to simple judgment, but I doubt that any of us wants to be defined or judged by one, single aspect of ourselves.

  • bikeboy Boise, ID
    July 25, 2014 10:56 a.m.

    "... Christians' loyalty to God above all else has alarmed authorities..."

    In Communist countries, loyalty must first and foremost be toward "the State" and "the Party." Religious institutions are an obvious threat to that mentality. As are family relationships, etc. Free thinking and critisism of The State are strongly discouraged.

    Thank goodness such a mentality could never take root here, huh?

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 25, 2014 9:22 a.m.

    Maybe the ACLU has a China branch.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    July 25, 2014 8:53 a.m.

    what the Chinese government is doing there is only what BO, harry reid, patty murray and hutterite would like to do here. actually when considering the vitriole they have launched against religion through Obamacare, they are figuratively doing it here