don17:Of course "chaos breeds chaos" when you are not
bringing any rational solutions to the table. 1) World War II may
have brought stability in some people's minds but we had to get their by
dropping an atomic bomb on a city full of civilians. 2) The
Revolutionary War had a semblance of rationality when the leaders of the country
did not seek vengeance upon the defeated English.3) The Thirty Years
was not a multi-Century long struggle. They were different principalities and
kingdoms in Europe struggling for some sort of religious freedom and/or
independence from super powers such as Spain.4) Hamas and Hezbollah
may want the destruction of Israel but that does not mean that all Palestinians
do. Just as there are some Israelis who would not lose sleep if all
Palestinians were destroyed.History whether past or present is more
complex and nuanced than many may realize.
Lot of comments from the east coast on this issue.I find it curious
that so many non Utahans follow this issue on our local paper.My
question is how do they know what is being preached in our local mosques?
There will be no peace in the Middle East until Isreal has expanded its
territory to a substantial sized nation and obtains dominate control and power
over the Middle East region. So far the camel just has its nose in the tent,
bit that will change in years ahead with the aid of the USA.
Mattrick 78: Just a few points to your comments please. 1. Choas does not only bred choas it can create order as well. A. World War 2
and the Choas of the war brought about a bi polar stability.2. In
the 1776-1783 time period the Colonies war with England brought a stable
government to the United States(which was accepted, modified, rejected, and
modified again during the American Civil War 1861-1865. 3. The Thirty Year
War was actually a multi- Century long struggle.4. Hamas and Hezbollah
want the destruction of Israel and America! Not the other way around.Goddess Divine:1.At gun point Hamas foces it's people to stay
at schools and mosques and other places where tunnels and missles are kept!
Human shields!2. Hamas started lobbing missles at Israel before Israel
struck back. After hundreds had been fired that broke the peace agreement of
2012.3.Israel notifies the residents prior to each attacked area giving
them time to evacuate. Then prior to firing live shells to a particular location
they fire a dud shell as a 5 minute warning to those who did not leave prior!4. Turn off CNN ABC NBC and the others and find balanced sources.
A little clarification of facts please before blaming Israel for this tragedy.
1. The lands of Israel under the authority-leadership of the Jewish people
had existed well over 2 thousand years before the Islamic Arabs and other
followers of Allah appeared after their great prophet established their
beliefs.2. There is no Palestinian culture. The make up of Gaza and the
West Bank are a group of culturally mixed peoples not wanted by any Arab
Nation.3. Hundreds of misslies were fired by Hamas (a TERRORIST
ORGANIZATION)prior to Israel refusing to turn the other cheek again!4
Hamas and Hezbollah are both groups of multiple generational fighters who are
Jew haters with the established and stated goal of wiping Israel off the face of
the earth! Another HOLACOUST!5.Hamas and Hezbollah have roots and
militerism alighed with and suppported by(in the 1930-1945 period)Aldolf
Hitler's Third Reich! Yes the Nazi's and S.S. of Hitler's Germany
supported these terrorists even then.6. Iran supports Hamas and Hezbollah
with funds, fighters and weapons. Iran has stated that they will wipe Israel off
the face of the earth! And America also! Negotiate with that? No!7. If
your against Israel you are against America!
It's been 2 weeks since this bombing started and there are already 680
Palestinians dead, including women and children, not terrorists. The United
Nations has started an investigation to find out if Israel is violating human
rights and committing crimes against civilians. Something that has already been
done,before by numerous non guvernmental organizations. I hope one of my
comments is posted since there are only 14 comments and they all justify Israel.
Deseret needs to objective and non biased, and publish both sides of the story,
not just the comments that justify Israel. Please post all of my comments.
If Hamas were to give up its dedication to destroying Israel and murdering Jews,
it could have peace with Israel this afternoon and economic prosperity within a
year or two. However, just as a leopard cannot change its spots, so Hamas cannot
change its attitude toward Jews. The reason is that the problem is not limited
to Hamas. As the Hamas Charter makes perfectly clear, the war against Israel and
the Jews is an ISLAMIC holy war. The Moslem god, in the Koran, and the Moslem
prophet, in the Sunnah, command Moslems to make war against the Jews and either
subjugate them to Islamic rule or kill them. The very existence of Israel stands
as a rebuke to the Moslem god and prophet. This goes far beyond Hamas. It goes
far beyond the "Palestinians", and it goes far beyond the Arabs.
Israel's deadliest enemy is the Islamic Republic of Iran which is not Arab.
Islamic religious Jew-hatred is taught and preached in every mosque in the world
including the ones in Salt Lake City.
The region of Palestine has always existed since biblical times, same as
Israelites. Most arabs are descendants of Ishmael , the son that Abraham had
with the Egyptian slave, the first son that Abraham had. The second son was
Isaac and he is the father of the 12 tribes of Israel. Conclusion: Arabs and
Israelites are family by blood because they originate from the same father.
Instead of fighting they should learn to live together. Easier said than done. I
doubt it will ever happen. But at least they should not kill each other because
they are brothers and sisters. Anyway, The region of Palestine has
existed since biblical times. There are stories in the bible that mentions them
in the Old Testament before Jesus was born, like the story of Samson and
Delilah. Palestinians are called filisteens and Delilah was a filisteens. Around
that time Israel and Palestine were already neighbors. During the Byzantine
empire, Palestine was the name given to the entire region of Syria Palestine,
Samaria and Galilee in the year 395.
. Even if Hamas stops bombing Israel, and even if Hamas recognizes Israel as a
state, this war is,not going to end because the Palestinians are not free in
their own land. Everyone in the us values freedom but the principle
doesn't apply when we talk about Palestine. That is what I call hypocrisy.
Someone suggested all Palestinian should just go to live to the
other Arab states, well, this is what has already been going on. There are
thousands of Palestinian refugees already in the other Arab countries and they
can it take anymore. It is funny how that suggestion comes from someone in a
country where right there is a huge problem with little children being sent to
the us illegally. The us government is not willing to take in these children and
the us people in California sent back all these buses with illegal people, they
would,not take them, but it is so easy to suggest others should take
Palestinians refugees when your own country is not willing to take little
children that are running away from violence.
" This whole middle east mess is based on the desire of 10s of millions of
Arabs wanting to get rid of a few million Jews. Simple as that."Its only that simple if you are not a Palestinian.
@rvalens2By way of comparison, imagine if I came to your house in a
bulldozer and destroyed it (without checking if anyone was still inside), then
built my house on top. I am sure you would shake my hand, shrug your shoulders
and be on your way.This has been happening in Palestine for several
Good luck with that. As for religion and nationalism there is no equivalency to
the rest of the religious world and hasn't been for hundreds of years. No
other faith (or nations ruled by religious law) is attempting violent forceful
exportation of itself, waging war in the name of their religions or doing
anything remotely like what the faith united neighbors of Israel are doing all
over the globe.
What to do when both sides are chosen by God and Speak for him?Nationalism and Zealotry make for an explosive combo, not a peaceful one.
@rvalens2By way of comparison, what would the U.S. do if Canada
began building Canadian settlements on U.S. sovereign soil to the point where
the United States is quarter the size as it was before? If we used our second
amendment rights to stop further encroachment, does Canada then have a right to
defend itself?The problem here is not differences over culture or
religion. It is about respect for life, liberty, and property. Both sides are
complicit. P.S. I have nothing personal against Canada.
When religion and nationalism rule, this is what you get.I'm
glad we're not there...yet.
rvalens 2Furthermore as you alluded to, there is a lot of land held
by the other Arab countries, Jordan, Lebannan, Syria, ect. that could be a
"Palistinian state". But, no, the so called Palistianians want their
country right smack dab in the middle of Israel, or on its immediate border.
Just the place for people who hate Jews to live, don't you think. This
whole middle east mess is based on the desire of 10s of millions of Arabs
wanting to get rid of a few million Jews. Simple as that.
It's a matter if when, not if, it becomes a matter of "it's either
you or me".
Hey, I have an idea for Hamas!!!? Stop lobbing rockets into Israel and they may
listen to you about the blockade. Anytime you are in negotiations for peace
with an entity and you give them 96% of what they ask for, and they refuse, then
they are not really interested in peace. The Pallies refused the Israeli offer
of 96% of what they were demanding. The Palestinians said no. They do not want
peace, they want to kill israelis and they are not genuine in negotiations.
Both sides are to blame. Both sides are lobbing missiles at each other killing
innocent civilians. Chaos breeds chaos. The Thirty Years War of religion only
took thirty years but at least they finally came to their senses.
Hamas needs to be completely destroyed. It will be the only way to peace.
By way of comparison, what would the U.S. do if Mexico started lobbing missiles
into the U.S. in an attempt to kill U.S. citizens? We wouldn't be nearly as
reserved as the Israelis have been.Reserved? Yes, the Israelis issue
warnings to the areas they will be bombing to allow the locals to leave.
Instead, Hamas often forces them to stay at gun point. Why would Hamas do that?
So they can play up of the death and destruction of children at the hands of the
Israelis. Just watch NBC, CBS or ABC and you'll see a nightly parade of the
images Hamas wants the world to see. Unfortunately, the whole truth of the
matter is rarely shown to the public.I have noticed one other thing
about broadcast news in the U.S. While they will often spend two to three
minutes reporting the carnage befalling the children in the Gaza strip, they
rarely spend more than 15 seconds mentioning the deaths or the destruction on
the Israeli side of the border. Why is that?
I rhink they think that it's their duty to kill to bring the second coming.
There can be no peace as long as Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal keeps calling for
the destruction of Israel.Opening Gaza's borders and ending the
blockade would simply allow Hamas to import better, bigger missiles and send
hoards of terrorists into Israel to blow themselves, and the Israelis, up.For your information, there never has been a Palestinian people or a
nation called Palestine. It has been fabricated by the Arabs.
"Palestinians" are mostly Jordanians and Syrians. Yasser Arafat, the now
deceased leader of the "Palestinians," was actually an Egyptian!If the neighboring Arab states are so concerned with all the carnage
taking place in the Gaza strip, why don't they take in the
"Palestinians" and vacate the Gaza strip?Answer: They want
to see the destruction of Israel come to pass and the "Palestinians" are
simply a convenient excuse.
Hamas is not going to get any concessions as long as they keep sending rockets
into Israel. Hamas couldn't even exist without foreign aid from other
countries. They've done nothing whatsoever to warrant world respect... or
Hamas does not seem to understand that Israel would not have an embargo in place
if Hamas would declare peace with Israel. But because Hamas openly calls for
the destruction of Israel, they must not be allowed to gain strength sufficient
to carry out their true objectives.This is all Hamas' fault.