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Archivist: IRS didn't follow law with lost emails

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  • Coach Biff Lehi, UT
    June 27, 2014 3:01 p.m.

    ....And to think the left has the audacity to complain about a Republican Congress who at least attempts to block this run amok President. The nerve of them!

  • Badger55 Nibley, Ut
    June 26, 2014 10:17 a.m.

    "I'll make our government open and transparent, so that anyone can ensure that our business is the People's business"
    -Barack Obama Feb 2009

    So much for that...

  • LoveLife Riverton, UT
    June 25, 2014 9:16 p.m.

    Gary O:
    In section 1 (Organization, Finance, and Management) Chapter 10 (Office of the Commissioner of Internal Revenue) Section 3 (Standards for Using Email) of the IRS employee manual, you can find:

    Emails as Possible Federal Records:

    1. All federal employees and federal contractors are required by law to preserve records containing adequate and proper documentation of the organization, functions, policies, decisions, procedures, and essential transactions of the agency. Records must be properly stored and preserved, available for retrieval and subject to appropriate approved disposition schedules.

    2. The Federal Records Act applies to email records just as it does to records you create using other media. Emails are records when they are:
    •Created or received in the transaction of agency business
    •Appropriate for preservation as evidence of the government’s function and activities, or
    •Valuable because of the information they contain.

    3. If you create or receive email messages during the course of your daily work, you are responsible for ensuring that you manage them properly.

    Please feel free to go read the entire thing-this is only part of it.

    Of course, you probably consider the IRS website as part of "Right Wing La La Land"

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    June 25, 2014 6:03 p.m.

    Let's face it folks.

    The IRS can give itself over eleven million in bonuses, but can't update their computers?

    This country has been scammed.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    June 25, 2014 3:06 p.m.

    Oh . . . In other words, you cant's find any such law.

    Just more somebody said he said there's a law . . . somewhere . . . in Right Wing La La Land.

    That's what I thought.

  • Vanceone Provo, UT
    June 25, 2014 1:13 p.m.

    Hey Gary: Try Reading the article you are commenting on. Specifically, the first two paragraphs. Here:

    The Internal Revenue Service did not follow the law when it failed to report the loss of records belonging to a senior IRS executive, the nation's top archivist told Congress Tuesday.

    "Any agency is required to notify us when they realize they have a problem," David Ferriero, archivist of the U.S. during a House Oversight and Government Reform committee hearing.

    /close quote.

    Are you saying that David Ferriero is lying? That he doesn't know the law? In your zeal to defend the indefensible, you are maligning this man. But like I said above, you would prefer Himmler's Germany over our current government, so yes, you probably don't think he is lying, but it doesn't matter--you will smear him anyway. Whilst, of course, you lie your own rear end off to defend King Barack.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    June 25, 2014 1:09 p.m.

    GaryO,
    keep digging, your hole is getting deeper

    from the article:
    "The Internal Revenue Service did not follow the law when it failed to report the loss of records belonging to a senior IRS executive, the nation's top archivist told Congress Tuesday.

    "Any agency is required to notify us when they realize they have a problem," David Ferriero, archivist of the U.S. during a House Oversight and Government Reform committee hearing."

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    June 25, 2014 12:23 p.m.

    Can't believe some people will defend wrong doing.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    June 25, 2014 9:39 a.m.

    Hey Lost -

    "the IRS SHOULD have reported the loss.

    IT IS THE LAW!"

    Is it? I haven't been able to find any law on the Net that says that the IRS would have to report a broken hard drive and the loss of emails to anybody.

    Please . . . let's see the law to which you "Conservatives" allude.

    Yes, yes, I know . . . Somebody said he said she said there's a law somewhere that deals with this issue.

    WHERE is it?

    Let's see it.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    June 25, 2014 9:22 a.m.

    The IRS will not be punished

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    June 25, 2014 8:41 a.m.

    GaryO,
    yes, the IRS SHOULD have reported the loss.

    IT IS THE LAW! it is not for the IRS to determine whether or ont the emails wer important, it was their responsibility to report the loss.

    but then you appear perfectly happy to allow the BO misdaministration to break the law.

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    June 24, 2014 9:23 p.m.

    Now that the IRS has demonstrated that they cannot properly backup data, how will they convince a jury that Joe AverageGuy is a tax cheat? Just because they don't have a record of him paying taxes means nothing.

    Six hard drive crashes, besides Lois Lerner's destroyed all the evidence. Cool.

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    June 24, 2014 9:14 p.m.

    GaryO,
    From the (ir)rationality of your comments, you would serve your cause best by not commenting.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    June 24, 2014 9:06 p.m.

    "So the files were lost in 2011, but there was NO hint of any co-called scandal until 2013, and definitely no investigation.

    That doesn’t make much sense if you’re suggesting that the investigation of a so-called scandal caused the removal of emails."

    Have you considered that the removal of emails was done in case anybody would do an investigation in the future? If you wrote questionable emails or texts to somebody and wanted to delete them to destroy the evidence, would you wait until somebody else suspected you had and asked to see your phone or computer?

    Also, just because it took people a few years to find evidence of a scandal doesn't mean it's not a scandal anymore.

  • LoveLife Riverton, UT
    June 24, 2014 7:48 p.m.

    GaryO-
    It's not the IRS' choice to keep or not keep the records. Under FOIA laws, they have to made available for future FOIA requests, because as you stated, they don't know in the future what documents will be needed for review. It is a problem when information that, under law, is supposed to be available and isn't.

    That is precisely why the law was not followed. If they had reported the missing emails in 2011, it wouldn't look suspicious, especially since the IRS commissioner promised those emails would be forthcoming a few months ago.

    But let's not kid ourselves. Those emails exist. It is impossible for them to have just "disappeared". Six months of missing emails for 7 different IRS employees and no one reported that? You must be kidding if you believe there was no wrongdoing.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    June 24, 2014 7:32 p.m.

    If a liberal democrat said the moon was made of cheese,--many would actually believe that.

    Too many gullible people in this country.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    June 24, 2014 6:20 p.m.

    Hey Riverton Cougar -

    " . . . dealing with Obama's scandals is like playing whack-a-mole . . "

    LOL . . .You're using make-believe moles and you're STILL not winning.

    So the files were lost in 2011, but there was NO hint of any co-called scandal until 2013, and definitely no investigation.

    That doesn’t make much sense if you’re suggesting that the investigation of a so-called scandal caused the removal of emails.

    The timeline doesn’t conform to your prejudices at all, does it?

    Hey Lost -

    The IRS should have reported the problem? Should they have reported a non-problem too?

    I personally wouldn’t regard losing emails as a problem, unless they are significant in some way, and in 2011, the emails in question were not significant.

  • CPA Howard Rancho Santa Margarita, CA
    June 24, 2014 1:27 p.m.

    I wonder if the Democrats in the house and in the senate who are defending the IRS handling of the missing emails, believe Nixion's reasons for the 18.5 minute gap in the Nixon watergate tapes?

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    June 24, 2014 1:02 p.m.

    The emails were not lost - they are carefully hidden somewhere

    GaryO
    your immediate defense of the BO misadministration has made you just a little careless. The IRS emails were lost in 2011 and should have been reported by the IRS to NARA then, in 2011. NARA is just now learning of it - 3 years later. NARA is NOT the agency that should have reported the loss, as you infer; they are the agency to whom the loss should have been reported THREE YEARS AGO by the IRS that BO is illegally using to persecute his political opponents.

    it does get old, your constant defense of the indefensiable.

    It's a pity that liberals cannot think of anything else to do.

  • Vanceone Provo, UT
    June 24, 2014 1:01 p.m.

    Yes, Gary. We all know you have no problems with the Government abusing its power to target political enemies; and you have no problem with governmental corruption. Indeed, you have made it perfectly clear that you prefer Germany, circa 1940 style government to our own, what with the worshipping of dictatorial, above the law leaders who target and abuse their political enemies; rewriting their own countries law without authority and against their constitution. That's your favorite, as expressed numerous times on these boards.

    But for the rest of us who prefer freedom, the clear cut abuse and arrogant nature of the IRS, coupled with its blatant politicization, is a bad thing.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    June 24, 2014 1:00 p.m.

    GaryO,

    The IRS was supposed to report the lost records to the National Archives and Records Administration as soon as they learned they lost the emails, but they didn't. They didn't "promptly" report it unless 2 years later is considered prompt (and I have a hunch that the IRS would not consider filing your taxes 2 years late as "prompt").

    I really think you're the only one who comments on these boards who thinks that this is nothing to worry about.

    Don't suggest that Republicans aren't doing anything useful; dealing with Obama's scandals is like playing whack-a-mole, except Obama and his administration are trying to keep anybody from whacking any moles.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    June 24, 2014 12:23 p.m.

    So . . . “Any agency is required to notify us when they realize they have a problem," . . .

    Uh huh . . .

    “The National Archives and Records Administration did not learn about the lost records until earlier this month”

    . . . And then promptly reported it.

    I don’t see a problem here.

    Looks like another non-scandal a brewing.

    It gets old doesn’t it?

    It’s a pity that “Conservatives” in Congress can’t think of anything better to do.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    June 24, 2014 12:13 p.m.

    I'm just "shocked" a quasi liberal institution like the IRS was purposely not following the law.

    And I'm "shocked" at their "competence" in having lost these emails.

    I'm also "shocked" they aren't being too cooperative in investigations.

    They're just following barack's "example" of "transparency"