Too bad Obama didn't weigh the options with the Canadian oil pipeline.With the Iraq conflict, gas prices will probably skyrocket, and the
Canadians will be sending their oil to China.
I agree with worf about the Canadian pipe line. However, since this is about
the Iraqi situation, I can only see Obama trying to talk this one to death,
while Putin is acting like a dominant leader. I hate Putin (always have) but
Obama is really showing poor leadership in the world community.
So the latest on this is that we are sending some 300 "advisors" to Iraq
to help train and defend against the Sunni militia threatening to take over
Iraq. Anytime I hear the term advisors I'm reminded of how Vietnam got
According the latest news reports, ISIS's Jihadists have seized
Saddam's chemical weapons stockpile in Iraq. That's simply amazing...
for three reasons: (1) all intelligence reports stated Saddam had WMD, (2) our
military couldn't find them, and (3) the Democrats have been making
political hay over Saddam's non-existent WMD for the last decade. Maybe
the 300 advisers that Obama is sending can take another peek.
@worfCanadians were going to send their oil wherever they will, regardless
of whether it gets refined in British Columbia or the U.S.
wrz, they didn't seize his stockpile, they occupied an old building that
Saddam used to make chemical weapons. There apparently were some old non
useable chemicals still there, but that's not news to anyone. Everybody
knew he had had produced chemical weapons because he used them against the
Kurds. Old sarin gas is not the mushroom cloud Condoleezza Rice warned about.So a simple question wrz. Is one building with old gas ( it was old in
2003) worth a trillion dollars and 5,000 American lives. Point is
don't resurrect the wmd scenario over one old building with a little old
non useable gas.
Bush/Chenney send thousands of Americans to their death and conservatives cover
their cars with bumper stickers and their lawns and lapels with flags. Obama
sends 300 advisors and conservatives send him their ill repute.
@ Schnee:You are incorrect. Canadians have preferred for a long time
to send their oil to their best ally... the USA. However, since Obama refuses to
sign off on the required pipeline for political reasons, they will be forced to
sell it somewhere else... probably to China. Obama's actions, such as
this one, continue to appear to be self-serving. If he had the good of America
in mind, that pipeline would've been mostly built by now and we
wouldn't be so dependent on non-allies for part of our energy needs.Back to the topic...300 troops is barely dipping his toe in the
water. He's obviously afraid to make a decision or a commitment. But
that's been his MO since day one in office. He'll study an issue
almost to death and hope that it goes away. But instead, it usually gets
worse... as in this case. He seems to be too arrogant to follow competent
advice.Had he previously followed his military general's advice, both
we and Iraq would not now be in this situation and thousands of dead civilians
would be alive.
@ FT:If you didn't have such a selective memory, you'd
recall that both houses of Congress also voted to proceed with the Iraqi war and
send troops. Even Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton voted in favor of it. So to try to lay the blame of American lives on just Bush and Cheney is
ridiculous and naive. Unless you're too young to remember the original
9/11, most of our entire country was united in our desire for retribution via
the Iraqi war. Making such claims against former President Bush at
this point is partisan politics and definitely costs credibility to anyone
@ slcdenizen:Unline you, Brio obviously reads the news and keeps up
on international events. Canadian oil officials have publicly stated their
preference for dealing with America many times. Get a clue.Even
though I'm an Independent, being a Tea-Partier who believes in following
Constitutional law is many times more preferable to being a liberal who abuses
@Brio" Canadians have preferred for a long time to send their oil to
their best ally... the USA. However, since Obama refuses to sign off on the
required pipeline for political reasons, they will be forced to sell it
somewhere else"Obama blocking a pipeline doesn't stop
Canada from selling it to the U.S. They can ship their refined oil in British
Columbia wherever they want whether it's California, Tokyo, or Beijing.
@ FT....You have misunderstood. The American People have been
sending Obama Ill repute for quite some time based on Obama's lack of
leadership, bungled foreign relations and exploding debt. Now that Obama cannot
continue to blame every issue on Bush the transparency in his administration
shows that he isn't the leader he convinced people he would be.
@Brio"Unless you're too young to remember the original 9/11, most
of our entire country was united in our desire for retribution via the Iraqi
war. "9/11 wasn't done by Iraq. That was the Afghanistan
war. The support for the Iraq war came from misrepresenting the
intelligence we had on the matter of Saddam's capacity/supply of WMDs and
connections to terrorism.
@ slcdenizen...I'm a bit surprised that anyone could remain so
naive regarding the Canadian oil pipeline situation in the U.S.. Had you
bothered to keep informed, you'd know I'm only quoting commonly known
information that the Canadians have spoken themselves many times. If
you actually believe anything was made up in the comment I made regarding it,
then you truly need to start reading more to keep from further embarrassing
yourself in these posts. However, you are correct about Tea Party
principles being "fine", in that they adhere to the original
Constitution... as opposed to the "living document principle" of the
Constitution that keeps changing to accommodate whatever the current issue is
that liberals are dealing with, whenever their stance doesn't correlate to
the Constitution, which has been quite often lately.
"Unless you're too young to remember the original 9/11, most of our
entire country was united in our desire for retribution via the Iraqi
war."@BrioAll well and good...except for the minor
detail that Iraq had exactly nothing to do with 9/11. Making such claims in
favor of former President Bush at this point is partisan politics and definitely
costs credibility to anyone making them.For reference:"we've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with
September the 11th" - George Bush 2003"If you're
talking specifically about the September 11th attacks, we never made that
claim" - Scott McClellan (Bush WH spokesman)"We have never
claimed that Saddam Hussein had either direction or control of 9/11." -
Condoleeza Rice"On the question of whether or not Iraq was
involved in 9/11, there was never any evidence to prove that" - Dick Cheney
Also, what exactly is a "military advisor"? To me it sounds like a
creative way of saying we are sending military staff without calling them troops
because we don't want to call them troops since we said we would not send
troops so if we call them advisors people will imagine they are wearing black
dress shoes and not boots as we said we would not send people who wear boots....
Better make sure the advisors don't pack any boots...better yet, Obama
will issue an executive order prohibiting the military advisors from packing any
boots. But since boots are military issue and soldiers wear boots, they will
rename the boots and call them something like "advisory traction
enhancers" so that they can keep saying they did not put boots on the
ground.... See, problem solved the Obama way...
@ Frozen Factals:Iraq was also harboring terrorists and promoting
the level of terrorism that led to 9/11. It wasn't just Afghanistan.
"the 300 would largely be Green Berets, deployed in teams embedded with
Iraqi security forces." That's combat.
@Brio, Objectified"they adhere to the original Constitution...
""Even though I'm an Independent, being a Tea-Partier
who believes in following Constitutional law"Why are tea
partiers so hesitant to identify themselves as such? Has it become the new gay?
Just come out of the closet already and admit that you watch Fox News, prefer to
identify unfamiliar topics as "liberal", are nearing retirement and
project your self-loathing from not accomplishing your life goals onto welfare
recipients, and have found relief from life's complexities by reading Vince
Flynn and Brad Thor, imagining yourself as a heroic patriot that at times must
torture terrorists for the good of America. There's no shame in being
yourself. Be loud, be proud!
@ The intelligence regarding the WMD wasn't misrepresented. It was outright
wrong. All of our intelligence agencies were united in their assessments about
WMD being in Iraq. They got it wrong, not Bush. President Bush used those
assessments which was considered the best intel available at that time.
Democrats conveniently keeping forgetting those details when bringing up the
origins of the Iraqi war. Besides that, Saddam Hussein was a
ruthless dictator and murderer that needed to be removed and tried for his
crimes. He caused an imbalance in the Mid East with policies that were
anti-American. Terrorism was harbored and protected in both Iraq and
Afghanistan. Both needed to be dealt with. If Obama had had a better exist
strategy, much more good would've resulted from our wars there. Announcing
your country's exist strategy and exit times to your enemy was absolutely
inexcusable for its ineptness. It's sad to read Obama apologists try to
Make sure that Dick Cheney is the first to go. He made this mess - he can clean
it up himself.
Reading these comments shows me once again how ill informed Fox News viewers
are. The revisionist history is amazing.
Does an inclusive government lead by a president sound like this?
"Republicans can come along for the ride but they'll have to sit in the
back of the bus." Does an inclusive-minded leader chant
"tax the rich" ad nauseam as his primary economic formula? Or force
religiously-conscious people and organizations to pay for abortion benefits in
insurance plans? Or lock out the opposition party from crafting a solution to
the nation's health care challenges? It sounds like Obama is
lecturing Iraqi leaders out of one side of his mouth while acting completely
opposite in his own world.
I wonder if Hillary, Harry, and Nancy will be doing some advising?
@pragmatistferlife:"wrz, they didn't seize his stockpile, they
occupied an old building that Saddam used to make chemical weapons."Oh, so Saddam did have WMD. Bush and Cheney were correct... as were
Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Joe Biden, and many other Democrats who voted in
the Senate for the 'Authorization to use Military Force in Iraq.'"There apparently were some old non useable chemicals still there,
but that's not news to anyone."Did Hans Blix tell you
that?"Point is don't resurrect the WMD scenario over one
old building with a little old non useable gas."Well then, check
this out...'WASHINGTON, July 7, 2008 - Defense personnel have
completed the transfer of 550 metric tons of Iraqi uranium ore to Canada,
Defense officials said here today.The Iraqi government asked the
United States to help transfer the yellowcake -- as the ore is known -- from
Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Center near Baghdad to its buyer in Canada, Pentagon
spokesman Bryan Whitman said today.The military dubbed the movement
Operation McCall, and it ended July 5.Yellowcake is a uranium ore
that can be processed to become nuclear fuel.'
Look folks, at the time all intelligence sources, not just American, believed in
the WMD in Iraq. Turns out that one of the biggest so called intelligence
sources was a guy who turned out to be a total lier. The biggest mistake Bush
made was not the going in to Iraq, it was the staying behind and trying to put
lipstick on a pig. Iraq, with their Sunni/Shiite problems that have been going
on forever, and will continue to go on forever, cannot be changed into a
democracy for very long. Yes, a couple of elections, but the most influential
element in those middle east societies is not government and freedom and voting.
It is the religion of Islam. And in those governments the religious have a
huge say anyway. And when you break it down, Islam and democracy (as we
understand it) do not mix. Hence, a futile effort from the beginning.
@BrioConservatives love to spout that Democrats also supported and voted
for the war. Incorrect. What they approved was the use of force. It was the
Bush/Chenney administration that decided to use it. World leaders and rational
people here at home were advocating for them to be patient and let the
inspectors finish their job. Bush/Chenney would not, and as we discovered later
they intended to invade all along. It was the worst, most immoral act of any
administration in the history of our country. For anyone to defend it shows a
total disregard for human life and common decency.
Worf -"Too bad Obama didn't weigh the options with the
Canadian oil pipeline."I really can't see what you're
complaining about.Most of the Keystone Pipeline has already been
completed under the Obama administration.It is only the last phase,
Phase Four, AKA Keystone XL, that's being held up because of environmental
considerations.Plenty of Canadian oil runs through the existing
Keystone Pipeline to American Refineries and to the port in Houston . . . So the
Canadians can sell to us if they want to.It's not up to us to
tell the Canadians where to sell their oil.
President Kennedy is his idol and 1962 was sending advisers to Vietnam which is
As I read more about this ISIS they are way beyond where Al Queda ever got.
They are a true army who take land, material, money, and rule that area like the
NAZIs did. They are imposing Saria law and killing anyone who does not comply.
And they seem to have been well organized and funded. I'm not for us
sending any more soldiers to fight over there. Air strikes would be about all I
could fathom. However, someday, somewhere, somehow, we WILL have to fight these
guys. The time may not be right now, with a war weary public, but make no
mistake, ISIS will attack us or our interests. Question is, what will the
public and President want to do when it happens.
A day late and a dollar short, Barack. A politician, a talker, a rock star. What
we so desperately need is a leader.
In the absence of the Canadian pipeline, oil is shipped to the refineries via
railway. The railway is primarily owned by Warren Buffet's group Berkshire
Hathaway. This is CLASSIC corrupt, crony capitalism. Warren Buffet helps message
Barak Obama's agenda around income inequality, minimum wage, raising taxes
and, he helps the President look strong on environmental issues as he blocks the
pipeline.The payoff for this political messaging, the pipeline is
blocked, thus the oil is shipped via Warren Buffet's rails. This can be verified by reading the pages of the Deseret news over the many
years. Berkshire Hathaway has purchased billions in shares in the rail
companies. As for the 300, I am alarmed. We are getting in the
middle of the road. Either we evacuate our personnel or we go in and fight to
stabilize. Instead, we are not evacuating and 300 is not enough to do more than
protect a small parcel of land, not a city or a country.Historically, there was another band of 300, among a nations finest that was
asked to stand against the hordes. They did so heroically. We do not need a
repeat. This decision by the Administration is bad!
For the kiddies in the audience, this is how we got involved in ..... wait for
it,Vietnam. We helped evacuate people from the
partitioned North to the South after the fall of the French military forces in
around 1954. Then we sent "advisers" to the South Vietnam military in
the early 1960's, and 50,000 dead Americans later we pulled out. I know the scenario is a bit different but the promises are the same.Why does history repeat itself? Because we don't learn the lesson the
first, or second time.
Who has been advising the enemy/ISIL, and where did they get their military
Obama promised world peace, just like you could keep your Doctot. What a
weakling he is.
@SCfan - 6:33 a.m. June 20, 2014You are absolutely correct on all
points.I would only add that, if there is to be democracy in lands
controlled by Muslim adherents, their youth will have to be taught about it in
their madrasahs (schools). Will that ever happen? No. There are 1.2 billion
Muslims throughout the world who follow the Koran and Hadith. These documents
essentially tell Muslims to hate and kill the infidel, i.e., anyone who is not
Muslim. Of course, there are many peace-loving Muslims. But there are also
millions of jihadists who attack and kill. With more joining the cause every
day... trained in their madrasahs.The aggravating thing about it is
that our country's leaders are either mentally incompetent or too ensconced
in political correctness to understand the breadth of the problem. This goes
all the way from Bush/Cheney to the current White House occupant... why, by the
way, has Muslim ancestry.
I suspect re-enlistments in the military are going to sharply decline going
forward until a competent commander and chief can be appointed. The entire world
laughs at Obama and his pitiful attempts to command anything.
@slcdenizenVery clever, comparing Tea Partiers to gays. I consider
myself a moderate Republican. AND I have disagreed with the Tea Partiers on
more than one occasion, but to lump them with the GLBT community is ludicrous,
even if done satirically. There could not be much more of a false comparison.
From what I've seen, I believe the tea partiers are acting out
of genuine beliefs in what they feel is good for our country. From what
I've observed, I suspect the GLBT activists are acting out of genuine
beliefs in what they feel is good for mostly themselves. More on
topic. Mr. Obama and his advisers would rather hem and haw, flexing their
muscles, threatening "dire consequences" till the cows come home, hoping
problems will disappear. Some problems don't disappear. What are you
going to do Mr. President? Air strikes? What? You start to wonder about the
experience level of his advisers. I'm not for sending back American
soldiers. This is just a culmination of several crucial mistakes, including
telling the enemy when you'll be leaving. Not leaving a small contingent
to monitor the situation.
Hey Here -" . . . Not leaving a small contingent to monitor the
situation."The terms of the SOFA signed by GW Bush in 2008
stipulated that ALL US military forces would be out of the country by the end of
December 2011.And the Iraqis INSISTED on just that.Did
you expect Obama to force "a small contingent" upon the Iraqis against
their will.Besides, any small contingent would be an easy target for
insurgents to attack.All of this "small contingent" talk in
the Right Wing Press is an attempt to mask the real reason for this insurgency,
namely the idiotic, illegal, and nonsensical attack and occupation of Iraq by US
forces at the direction of GW Bush, under the guise of a phony WMD threat.Face it Here, "Conservative" leadership is nothing but bad news
for this nation and the world.
wrz -"Yellowcake is a uranium ore that can be processed to
become nuclear fuel."WRONG.The yellow cake uranium
found in Iraq would not have even made a decent dirty bomb, and there is way any
amount of processing could turn it into "nuclear fuel."We
attacked Iraq based on a lie told by the GW Bush administration pure and simple.
Hey SC Fantasy -"Turns out that one of the biggest so called
intelligence sources was a guy who turned out to be a total lier" . . . who
said EXACTLY what GW wanted to hear to justify and attack on a nation that had
not attacked us.. . . How convenient.And the Bush
administration freely exaggerated those lies.
"Only leaders that can govern with an inclusive agenda are going to be able
to truly bring the Iraqi people together and help them through this
crisis." Don't TELL them. SHOW them.
"Even as Obama left the door open for a direct military response, he said
Iraq's future ultimately rests with its leaders' willingness to
embrace a more inclusive political system."I think that Obama is
being too soft on Maliki. Given our experience in Afghanistan where we raise
concern after concern about corruption and the government gives lip-service to
fixing corruption but does nothing we should learn to walk away.Maliki will give lip-service to being inclusive, but unless we get serious and
tell him, "If you don't resign we won't help." If not, we
will get a lot of lip-service and nothing will change. We can't force Iraq
to change. But if they don't change, why should Americans die for them?
It is their problem. If we help them when they won't help themselves, we
aren't helping them, we are hurting them. In fact we are saying, "We
will help because you are too big to fail."I think that if
Maliki stepped down and was replaced by someone with integrity who was
inclusive, the various Sunni tribes would turn on ISIS.
What is it about "conservatives" and their worship of Putin and their
hatred of Obama?Are there that many traitors in this great nation?