@Avenue 1:03 p.m. May 26, 2014@ Laura BillingtonI see no
problem in declaring my beliefs to those who have committed sin. These sins
include homosexual relationships, abortion, and divorce. In this country,
supposedly, I have a right to my religion.-------------------Yes, you have a right to believe as you choose and to state your opinion
as you choose. I would suggest, though, that you stop worrying bout the motes
in other people's eyes and start worrying about the beam n your own.
@ Laura BillingtonI see no problem in declaring my beliefs to those
who have committed sin. These sins include homosexual relationships, abortion,
and divorce. In this country, supposedly, I have a right to my religion.
Avenue, do you have friends or neighbors or relatives--or perhaps you,
yourself--who have been divorced? Do you think it's your place to lecture
them about how they have failed the standards that you say your Creator has
given them? If not, why not?
Governor Corbett has no business being the governor of a secular state if he
would act on any "personal beliefs" which conflict with the
Constitution. One would think that he had read the document before he ran for
office. If he, personally, doesn't want to marry another man, he has that
right. I wish he had announced that he was not appealing because the ruling was
just and he did not want to continue to disenfranchise a minority that has had
hundreds of years of being discriminated against, rather than because the appeal
had a very small chance of succeeding.Governor Herbert, you could
learn something from Mr. Corbett.
This is a sad day for America, ladies and gentlemen. We are, as a nation,
ultimately failing to accept and embrace the standards our Creator has given us
to follow. His stance on marriage is clear. Marriage is defined as the union of
one man and one woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife. This is God's
standard, not ours to manipulate and change. God created woman to be a companion
for man. No man can take the place of where a woman should be in a man's
life. No woman can take the place of where a man should be in a woman's
@LovelyDeseret"The Supreme Court votes 9-0 to save marriage in Utah,
essentially saying that there is a greater likelihood that Utah will prevail
"Someone's gonna be in for a major letdown... and it's
not going to be the people who are 17-0 (or something like that) since Windsor.
@ Copy CatYou wrote:" Hurting religious people is becoming
politically popular, even in Utah. Get ready for it."That is a
very paradoxical statement, since no one is trying to hurt anybody. Actually is
like the torturer feeling harrased because his victim ask him to stop.Your comment is also disingenuous since if we look at history, religious
groups tend to be victims of other religious movements.Besides, you
shouldn't feel at a disadvantage, if this were a comptetition between
secular groups and religious groups hurting each other. Religious groups would
win by a landslide.
@Copy Cat"Hurting religious people is becoming politically
popular, even in Utah."And how are religious people being hurt?
It is neither the role of the courts or the duty of State law to enforce the
religious beliefs of any particular group. My religion proscribes, among other
things, eating pork. Am I being hurt because the law doesn't forbid that to
others? The fact that it's legal to eat pork doesn't hurt my beliefs
or my religion. Actually, it helps me because I must make a conscious decision
to pass up pork every time I eat instead of not doing so because it's
illegal. I make that decision because it's what I believe God wants of me
rather than for fear of the government. Similarly, no one will require you to
marry someone of the same sex even when it's legal, and it will be your own
decision based on your own sexual orientation and your own religious beliefs to
refrain from doing so. Legal compulsion to act a certain way creates the
appearance of being religious without needed to actually believe anything. That,
my friend, is what hurts religion and religious people.
@Copy Cat 7:26 p.m. May 21, 2014Hurting religious people is becoming
politically popular, even in Utah. Get ready for it.-----------------Nobody is trying tyo "hurt religious
people". People should do as the Savior directs -- render unto Caesar the
things that are Caesar's and render unto God the things that are God.
Requiring people to eschew discriminatory practices at law is not "hurting:
them. "Religious" people can still believe as they want. They can live
according to the dictates of their religion and teach those dictates to their
children all they want. They can still discriminate all they want in their
private dealings. They just can't violate the Constitution while doing so.
That is not hurful in any way.
"The case is extremely unlikely to succeed on appeal," Corbett said in a
statement."True.""As a Roman Catholic, the
traditional teaching of my faith has not wavered," Corbett said. "I
continue to maintain the belief that marriage is between one man and one woman.
"Then that is how you should live your life; whatever made you
think you had the right to impose your religious views on others in the first
place anyway?@LovelyDeseret;This is how our
Constitutional Republic works. @Copy Cat;Please expound
on how religious people are hurt by the marriages of LGBT couples?
@LovelyDeseret 5:25 p.m. May 21, 2014Your comment is totally
incorrect.There is no need to "save marriage" in Utah.
Marriage is not under attack, does not need defending, and will not change for
the majority of people. The only thing different is that a small minority will
no longer be second class citizens -- they will finally have the same right to
civil marriage that the majority has. That is a good thing, and will strengthen
the country and strengthen democracy.The Supreme Court's stay
does not indicate that it thinks Utah will prevail in its appeal. It merely
maintains the status quo until the appeal is decided. That's a common
practice for the Supreme Court, and nothing can be read from its stay. From the
Court's decision in Windsor (states can decide marriage law unless their
law violate the Constitution), it appears very likely that it would sustain
Judge Shelby's decision (and the decisions of the judges in a multitude of
jurisdictions who decided the same).Gov. Corbett made a smart,
practical and Constitutional decision. Good for him. It's too bad that
Gov. Herbert didn't do the same.
@Copy Cat"Hurting religious people is becoming politically popular,
even in Utah. Get ready for it."I'm Mormon and gay. I'm very
"out" about being Mormon. Everybody I know in all my circles knows about
my faith. Some people ask silly questions or tease a bit, but in general my
faith is highly respected and gives me benefits in my job, community, and
family. I do not feel persecuted or hurt because of my faith.On the other
hand, I can only talk about my sexual orientation with a few close friends,
family, and religious leaders. If I was more open, I would immediately lose some
friends and be judged harshly by some members of my family and community. I hear
nasty things daily about gay people that make me sick. Tonight I was talking in
the church foyer after mutual and listened to a rant from a ward member about
how gays are trying to destroy the BSA and victimize boys. That hurts! The way
some religious people treat and talk about gay people is awful. It is becoming
less accepted and that is a good thing.
Copy CatMurray, UTHurting religious people is becoming politically
popular, even in Utah. Get ready for it.--- "Persecution
Complex" intended to cover up their own sinful feelings of wanting to hate,
to discriminate, and to place themselves above other children of God, has always
been around it Utah.Now might be the time for folks to see if they
are doing as Jesus would ask, or if they are too busy defending their own
It was heartening to learn of this decision, and particularly the
governor's comment that his decision was in spite of his personal religious
beliefs. Kudos, Governor Corbett. It has been alarming to watch
our governmental leaders demonstrate a greater allegiance to their religions
than to their country, state, or community. Some do so voluntarily; some feel
compelled to lest they raise suspicions of their "loyalty." The
religious right have their own PC demands. I'm grateful that this governor
took seriously his oath to serve ALL in the state.Congratulations to
the people of PA. Your governor just officially ended state-sanctioned
oppression of about 650,000 of your friends and neighbors, and saved you a tidy
sum doing so. Not a bad day's work!
Hurting religious people is becoming politically popular, even in Utah. Get
ready for it.
For the first time, a federal judge employed a higher standard of review in a
Gay Marriage case. That makes it pretty difficult to defend. That's why
Nevada officials are not going to defend their law either.From the
ruling:“Indeed, it is unsurprising that Defendants muster no
argument engaging the strictures of heightened scrutiny, as we, too, are unable
to fathom an ingenuous defense saving the Marriage Laws from being invalidated
under this more searching standard.”
LovelyDeseret, you say this is how democracy dies.....I counter that with this
is exactly how a Democratic Republic survives. It isn't that the majority
rules, it is the rule of law that takes precedent. This is how we protect any
and all minorities against unlawful domination by a majority. This Governor
realized that the law he was sworn to uphold had priority over his religious
beliefs. That is how a democracy survives!
@LovelyDeseret wrote: "This is an extremely dangerous precedent to
democracy."You know what's a dangerous precedent to
democracy? Putting the rights of an unpopular group of people up to a popular
This is how democracy dies. The Supreme Court votes 9-0 to save marriage
in Utah, essentially saying that there is a greater likelihood that Utah will
prevail and yet the Governor of Pennsylvania apparently knows more than the
unanimous Supreme Court about what is Constitutional? This is an extremely
dangerous precedent to democracy.
@Northern UtahnNot to mention that it's a waste of money at a
time when the state could put that money to better use elsewhere. I support gay
rights so that aspect is far more important to me but the money being thrown
away shouldn't be forgotten. The end result of all of this is crystal clear
by now. Let's take those millions and do something good with it.
@ USU-LoganLogan, UT"It might take Gov. Corbett a while,
but he has finally come to senses and stopped fighting the inevitable."I noticed that when a SECOND judge ruled against Utah, (Kimball), on
Monday, that Reyes is less fervent about his "full speed ahead"
rhetoric. Hurting gay people is becoming politically unpopular, even in Utah.
Get ready for it.
""As a Roman Catholic, the traditional teaching of my faith has not
wavered," Corbett said. "I continue to maintain the belief that marriage
is between one man and one woman. My duties as governor require that I follow
the laws as interpreted by the courts and make a judgment as to the likelihood
of a successful appeal." Gov. CorbettThis is a good lesson.Gov. Corbett as a Catholic disagrees with the ruling, yet he follows
"the laws as interpreted by the court".He is still the
Governor of Pennsylvania. His state has more equality than before. No bad
feelings by attempting to obstruct the wheels of justice. I think Gov. Corbett
is showing dignity and class. Good for you Gov. Corbett and good for the people
Great, and fair.
It might take Gov. Corbett a while, but he has finally come to senses and
stopped fighting the inevitable.Governor Herbert, are you listening?
Good news, and a very pragmatic decision from Pennsylvania's governor.It's been a pretty amazing year, hasn't it? And not even half