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Comments about ‘Judge strikes down Idaho's same-sex marriage ban’

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Published: Tuesday, May 13 2014 11:06 p.m. MDT

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gmlewis
Houston, TX

@Wilf55 - Didn't you mean to say:

"Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by federal and state legislatures disallowing same-sex marrriage, which laws have been pronounced unconstitutional by the court of last resort ..."

Samson01
S. Jordan, UT

The SCOTUS needs to put this issue to bed one way or the other. This tearing down of state laws and state constitutions must be settled by the highest court in the land and not by individual judges.

Personally I feel that redefining an essential societal institution because 1.9% of us have a disorder is absurd...but it is the reality of our day.

There is also the point that heterosexuals have done far more damage to the institution of marriage than SSM could ever do.

I am all for rule of law and in this case the law is ambiguous and needs to be defined by our highest court. I think the SCOTUS will rule in favor of SSM. Once established, I will honor the law. Will the LGBT community do the same if it does not go their way?

I doubt it.

Rocket Science
Brigham City, UT

The overall agenda for which SSM is taking the lead is spelled out in "The Overhauling of Straight America" by Marshall Kirk and Erastes Pill in Guide Magazine, November 1987. This article was one of the defining efforts in the start of the present day war being waged against marriage and the family.

Kirk and Erastes define "The first order of business is desensitization of the American public concerning gays and gay rights. To desensitize the public is to help it view homosexuality with indifference instead of with keen emotion." Until you have read this article don't think the issue is just about making marriage something it has never been defined to be, there is an even larger agenda. You will recognize these same methods, marketing strategies, and techniques outlined over 25 years ago with what is happening even right here in the discussions of comments on this and every other related article. Most people in Utah are against SSM but we don't speak up because of many of the reasons mentioned in the article. Google the article and read for yourself.

Understands Math
Lacey, WA

@Serious wrote: "If we can't base our laws on judeo-christian tradition, who's to say what is moral?"

Rational basis.

That was easy!

The Wraith
Kaysville, UT

One of the earliest known laws against murder is found in the code of Ur-Nammu in 2100 BCE, approximately. By comparison the 10 Commandments, according to the legend were written in about 1800 BCE. The code of Ur-Nammu also has laws against robbery (theft), kidnapping, adultery, assault, lying, and much more. Nothing in the 10 commandments was original, they borrowed from laws that had been a part of other cultures for hundreds and sometimes thousands of years before they were written.

I'm with Understands Math, a rational basis is the best foundation for law.

Understands Math
Lacey, WA

@Samson01 wrote: "Personally I feel that redefining an essential societal institution because 1.9% of us have a disorder is absurd...but it is the reality of our day."

First of all: "Disorder"? I think you'll find that no medical or psychological authorities consider members of Gender and Sexual minorities to intrinsically have a disorder. For you to use that term shows animus on your part. (And it's that kind of animus by lawmakers that has contributed to bans against same-sex marriage being overturned.)

Second: "1.9%"? That's an awfully precise (and low) number. I'm thinking the standard estimate of 3 to 5 percent is probably closer to the mark. And I'm pretty sure the constitution doesn't say "you can withhold rights from groups that are small enough."

Third: "Redefining." No, marriage is not being redefined. It's only a matter of updating who is allowed to be married. Marriage is no more being redefined than if the minimum marriage age in Utah were to be increased from 15 to 16. Saying that marriage is being "redefined" would imply that current marriages would be changing. They won't be. At all.

dalefarr
South Jordan, Utah

Unless the prophet announces that he has had a revelation from God that SSM is prohibited, Mormons, myself included should back off from treating our gay brothers and sisters differently than we treat each other.

Henry Drummond
San Jose, CA

I thought I would let the Judge herself answer some of the objections raised by the people commenting on this story.

“The Defendants offered no evidence that same-sex marriage would adversely affect opposite-sex marriages or the well-being of children. Without proof, the Defendants’ justifications echo the unsubstantiated fears that could not prop up the anti-miscegenation laws and rigid gender roles of days long past.”

“Then as now, it is the duty of the courts to apply the law to the facts in evidence. Here, the facts are clear and the law teaches that marriage is a fundamental right of all citizens, which neither tradition nor the majority can deny.”

“‘The history of our Constitution . . . is the story of the extension of constitutional rights and protections to people once ignored or excluded.’ United States v. Virginia (1996). Slow as the march toward equality may seem, it is never in vain.”

From Judge Dale's ruling in Latta v. Otter, May 13, 2014.

Rocket Science
Brigham City, UT

dalefarr: "The Family: A Proclamation to the World" from the First Presidency and Quorum of 12 Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints presented by President Gordon B. Hinckley, September 23 1995 is the mind and will of the Lord Himself. The family proclamation could not be more unmistakably plain and simple on gender roles in God's plan for Families.

If one does not believe these 15 men are Prophets and Apostles of the Lord you are certainly free to believe that but to those who do believe and sustain them we are obligated to know their words are the words of the Lord Himself. That is what is intended, that is what is meant by making this Proclamation to the World. We are also under commitment to treat all people with respect, kindness and dignity and our Prophet and Apostles have reminded us of that commitment when it comes our treatment of those who may be homosexual.

Unless the prophet announces that he has had a revelation from God that SSM is prohibited, Mormons, myself included should back off from treating our gay brothers and sisters differently than we treat each other.

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@Serious
"Homosexuals can't have children together!"

In-vitro, adoption (especially in states like Utah where single people can adopt), and surrogate parenting still exist along with some children coming from previous heterosexual relations (bisexuals exist you know).

"How can you remove one requirement while still arguing the others should stay?"

That requirement list used to include "of the same race" but we removed that while keeping the others the same.

"we had better throw out our laws pertaining to murder & theft... those are also laws rooted in the judeo-christian tradition. "

First off... our Christian faith didn't invent "don't steal". Secondly, there are secular reasons to ban those.

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

To "Bob K" since you are not LDS, let me explain some key points of LDS doctrine when it comes to gay marriage.

First, the LDS church teaches that marriage is between a man and a woman. That is it. That is what the scriptures say and what Prophets have been inspired by God to say.

Second, families are not about this life only. The marital relationships that we have now can last throughout eternity. The reason for this is that a married couple will be able to continue to have children.

When a gay LDS child leaves their family, friends, and church, it is because the child has turned their back on the people they leave, they are not sent away.

As the scriptures point out, the greatest commandment is to love God. If we love God then we will follow his commandments. As I have just explained, marriage is only between a man and a woman, and that it is an eternal principle.

If you want to know more, contact your local LDS missionaries.

WonderingNoMore
Logan, UT

@Serious wrote: "If we can't base our laws on judeo-christian tradition, who's to say what is moral?"

Golden Rule.

That was easy!

The Wraith
Kaysville, UT

Redshirt there are some corrections to your post that need to be made.

The LDS Church has taught publicly since 1896 that marriage is between a man and a woman, and privately since the 1910s or so. Before that they taught that marriage could also be between a man an multiple women. The scriptures and prophets provide ample support that this was inspired by god.

I'm guessing you haven't talked to too many gay members of the church. If you had would know that there are far too many who were treated terribly by other church members and sadly even by their own families. There are again far too many who have indeed been shunned and sent away.

Finally, marriage between one man and one woman ONLY is not an eternal principle. To this day a man who has lost his wife can remarry in a temple and will have both wives for all eternity. In fact there are at least two members of the quorum of the twelve who are sealed to two women. So the eternal principle is actually that marriage is between a man and a woman, or several women. That fact cannot be disputed.

ordinaryfolks
seattle, WA

Has anyone noticed that this judge was appointed by a Republican? Has anyone noticed that she is not the only Conservative jurist to rule against the prohibition of same sex marriage?

What planet do you people live on that think that the judiciary is a liberal cabal intent on destroying your country?

El Chango Supremo
Rexburg, ID

Re: Understands Math

"Rational basis."

Okay then, It's not rational for a man to marry another man. The only marriage should be between one man & one woman. It's the only relationship that can rationally make sense for a marriage. That was easy!!

Gay partners cannot have a child TOGETHER. If they choose some other means to have a child, that child will be deprived of a Mom or a Dad. You can't tell me that you could replace my mom with a man and we could have the same relationship I shared with my mother.

Whenever there is a study out that says that children are raised best by a mother & father, a cry is raised that the study is biased & not to be trusted. Whenever a study comes out that says that children don't need both a Mom & Dad, which flies in the face of personal experience for millions, that study is hailed as pure and without bias. Give me a break!

Candide
Salt Lake City, UT

The stay has been denied, so now it is up to the 9th circuit. Maybe there will be some gay weddings in Idaho on Friday! Also, NOM has been denied standing to defend the ban in Oregon. I love it when the good guys win.

Bob K
portland, OR

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut
"To "Bob K" since you are not LDS, let me explain some key points of LDS doctrine when it comes to gay marriage.
First, the LDS church teaches that marriage is between a man and a woman. That is it."

...Yes, I know the religion is based on marriage and procreation leading to prosperity, sainthood, etc. Smith did a good job!

"When a gay LDS child leaves their family, friends, and church, it is because the child has turned their back on the people they leave, they are not sent away."

...You ought to look on the streets of SLC for the discarded teens.

"As the scriptures point out, the greatest commandment is to love God. If we love God then we will follow his commandments."

... You take the doctrines of the lds to be the definite commandments of God, which is OK for you, but it's not your place to expect everyone else to follow them.

If you want to know more, contact your local LDS missionaries.

... Always the same deal: we are told to shut up and read the book of mormon, and stop thinking for ourselves.

equal protection
Cedar, UT

@ El Chango.

Rarely, is there as much consensus in any area of social science as in the case of same-sex couple parenting, which is why the American Academy of Pediatrics and all of the major professional organizations with expertise in child welfare have issued reports and resolutions in support of gay and lesbian parental rights". These organizations include the American Academy of Pediatrics, American Medical Association, American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy, American Psychoanalytic Association, National Association of Social Workers,Child Welfare League of America, North American Council on Adoptable Children, and Canadian Psychological Association.

That was easy.

wrz
Phoenix, AZ

Bob K:
"As a non-lds person, I notice the lack of a path for members to communicate to the prophet to please focus on an issue to see what God tells him."

I'm sure the LDS prophet is aware of the problems of the world and seeks God's direction.

"I do not think that God means for His children who were born Gay to need to separate."

People enter into this world with all kinds of conditions, drives, appetites, and afflictions. The idea is to recognize what God would have us do and become, and work toward that ultimate goal. The idea is not to obstinately tell God to accept what we are. He probably won't.

Those too arrogant to look to God for help and do what's needed to orient themselves with God's design will, in the end, likely stand alone.

worf
Mcallen, TX

Has there ever been a prosperous society where same-sex marriage was the norm?

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