So Bundy's cows ate some grass that would have otherwise just died with the
change of winter climate.Bundy could reasonably bill the BLM for the
steer manure that he so freely and charitably gave to the Nevada desert.
Websters'...terrorism: the use of violent acts to frighten the people
in an area as a way of trying to achieve a political goal
If Alex Jones is the source of information feeding the "let's shoot
someone" side of the argument, then I truly worry for the safety of the BLM
@Ryan9"Public land is 'public' land, not owned by anyone,
including the BLM or other federal agency"One can't just go
and build a house on public land, why should making it your grazing pasture be
Public land grazers pay a fee of about 1.65 a AUM to graze their cows on our
land. The real rate on private land is about 25.00 a AUM . Maybe the reason
some public Subsidized grazers, start to believe our public land belongs to
them,? Is also they get to keep this incredible lease Literally forever. They
then start to think this public land belongs to them. Treating it as their right
to graze instead of a privilege. It should be put up for bid every 10 years or
so. That would be fair.I am glad we have public land, and federal land, Managed
for the multiple best use for all of us not just a few people or locals. The
alternative could and would be all land privately Owned for the benefit of a
few, and all posted with no trespassing signs.
the expense of the presidency are as they were under two Bushes and Reagan also,
so trying to make that as an excuse for armed protestors creating a situation
where the government employees doing their duties for which we taxpayers pay,
have to withdraw to avoid violence. Makes a good argument for gun control. If
all the protesters were arrested they would then have felonies and would no
longer be able to legally have guns. Seems a good solution to me.
Jamescmeyer - now I know you all like to blame Obama for a lot of stuff.... but
this dispute began 20 years ago. This event has crossed over both democrat (aka
socialist in your book) and republican (defenders of all that is goo)
administrations. This has absolutely nothing to do with Obama.Second point... I know one of the BLM managers....not for this area... but one
close by. He is a cousin of mine, a strong LDS family man, sending a son soon
on a mission, a conservative, and a member in good standing. For you to say
this rancher is right simply because he is LDS.... how do you deal with that
fact that many of these "socialist" are also LDS conservatives as well.
Just goofy.Worf... if this man believes he has eminent domain to
these lands... that he has the right, deed, and title to these lands.... that is
one thing. But he doesn't. In his own words he has no contract to use the
lands... he just uses because his family used them. That isn't how things
I don't actually know much of the details around this scuffle. What I do
know, however, is that on first report, I'm more inclined to trust an LDS
rancher than representatives of the federal government being run by the most
socialist and liberally extremist administrations in all of U.S. history,
especially after the attack on benghazi, voter fraud, fast & furious, IRS
targetting of conservative groups, obamacare's enforcement and selfish
secularism, continuous overturning of various states' constitutions, and
rampant abuse by the EPA.
@UtahBlueDevil:From another person posting--This
isn't about the grazing fees. It's about a decades-long bid by the
U.S. govt and "environmental" groups to remove ranchers from western
rangeland. The only reason Cliven is still around, ironically, is because he
stopped paying the range fees to the BLM (he paid them to Clark County instead
until they eventually stopped accepting them). 53 other ranchers in
Clark County have been driven out of business or forced to sell out by the BLM.
This is because they continued paying the fees, and the feds continued turning
the screws on them (fewer and fewer cattle allowed, more restrictions). Cliven
Bundy is literally the last rancher standing. And he's only standing
because he defied the bureaucrats all these years. So you see
it's not about the range fees.
Bundy family should have bought the land or paid the fees. These are a bunch of
ragged cows out in the Mojave desert left there for ideological reasons. Why
should we subsidize cattle ranchers?
"Owned by the Federal government?" WE are the Federal government.
Lincoln said it perfectly: "Government of the people, by the people, and for
the people." Someone pointed out (sorry, being lazy, didn't grab your
name) that the eastern states don't have land "owned by the Federal
government." All lands east of the Mississippi (roughly) are owned by the
States. Talk about unequal treatment under the law? And those of you who
complained about Bundy "stealing" the land, he didn't take the
land. His cows ate some grass. Which grows back. It cost the Federal government
and we the people NOTHING!! His family has ranched there for over 100 years, and
the grass still grows. And the guy from Texas who was critical? You don't
have any "public" lands. The State of Texas owns almost every square
foot of land inside your borders. Can the State charge fees? You bet. Nowhere in
the Constitution does the government have the right to charge fees for use of
"public" lands. "All rights and privileges not granted to the
government under this Constitution and reserved to the States, and to the
How to win friends and influence government: just show up with a few dozen or
hundred of your closest armed friends. Problem solved!Seriously
though, what kind of government do we have when it retreats in the face of armed
Re LilalipAttenborough Massachusetts "He said he would pay the
State"Let's see is that the same as "the check is the
mail"?So tell me in the last 20 years has he paid anything to
the Feds or any State or local government?I believe the answer is a
big no.If I do not pay my federal or state liabilities can I be
excused if I gather my friends armed with rifles and hand guns around me?
Just read solar panels in dispute are to be located in Laughlin. Not to ruin a
good story/rebellion with facts but those of you located in this area: tell me
what cows wandering around in Bunkerville have to do with solar panels in
Laughlin, almost 200 miles away..... I've been to both. Quite a walk and
the shuttle could only take them half way. :D :D :D
Harry Reid's former employee is the head of BLM. Bundy and 52 other
ranchers to be removed for Chinese Solar Project on Bundy grazing lands.
Is Putin running America? Looks like what Putin does in Ukraine.Why
are grazing fees being enforced with snipers with high powered rifles on ridge
tops aimed at US citizens, helicopters with machine guns aimed at US citizens,
attack dogs trained on US citizens?Luckily no one was killed over
grazing fees. We have - Legislation for Equal pay for
men and woman.Legislation for Equal rights for women and men.Legislation for Equal Employment Opportunity.Legislation for
Equal Access for the Disabled.Legislation for Equal Credit
Opportunity for borrowers. The Equal Protection clausesFederal
law is about Equality.It's time for the Equal States Land Act
of 2014 - ALL STATES SHALL HAVEEQUAL PERCENTAGE OF FEDERAL LANDS. Nevada is 86% Federal Land compared to New Jersey's 7% Federal
Land.Federal Marijuana laws are not enforced. Federal Immigration
laws are not enforced. Federal voting laws are not enforced. Federal Health
care laws are not enforced. When any federal law is not enforced, it erodes law
and order. Why must Bundy obey federal law when 50 million other Americans
don't have to?Cattle Ranchers in the West are the endangered
Neil Kornze and other Federal officers, particularly the law enforcement
personnel are to be congratulated for remaining calm and professional. When
some publicity seeking, historically ignorant individual is able to create a
dangerous situation where people's lives are at risk, as a nation we should
be grateful we have highly skilled public personnel who can calm the
situation.Governor Sandoval, as a former Federal Judge, has a difficult
situation on hand. He, more than most, understand the value of law, local,
state and federal, being enforced. Hopefully the Bundy seeking publicity
incident won't escalate like the John Singer, Governor Matheson standoff
did three decades ago.Again, thanks to the BLM and their Rangers for
For those of you who claim that Bundy is breaking the law have you considered
that the land his family grazed on the land since the 1870s? How were they
compensated when they were kicked off the land. Thank you Bundy family for
standing against the tyranny of an overreaching federal bureaucracy.
Public land is 'public' land, not owned by anyone, including the BLM
or other federal agency, although they treat it as if it is. It is time for all
of us to give the Fed'd the big heavy-ho and stop sending them money to use
for lining their pockets and financing wars on other countries. And it is time
it stopped. If you want to use (not abuse) the land Bundy is responsibly using
for grazing his cattle part of the year, get yourself a herd and some horses and
a ranch house near there and go for it. Bundy claims no exclusive right to it.
Like the Smothers Brothers sang,"... if you get an outfit you can be a
cowboy too!" And God knows we need a lot more cowboys and a lot fewer
I stand with Mr. Bundy or others like him - ANYTIME,ANYWHERE.BTW -
if we are going to discuss "lawlessness" are we going to include Lois
Lerner, Eric Holder, or even the POTUS?Or do they not count?
The federal government has probably spent more on this cattle roundup than Mr.
Bundy owes in taxes. The BLM was trying to make an example of him, but now
it's back-fired and Mr. Bundy is a hero in many eyes. One thing's for
sure, the federal government, once again, looks foolish and inept.
He claims hit family owned this land before it was claimed by the federal
government. Is this true? If so why is this federal land?A federal
judge needs to take a close look at this claim with the commitment to do the
What can be learned from this situation.In the past twenty years of
grazing has Mr Bundy paid anyone State or Federal for the right to graze his
cattle on this land?Should he be paying some one or is he alone
allowed to do this for free?If he refuses to pay his cattle should
be seized and sold at auction.Just because his friends and
supporters show up with arms and military style uniforms the government should
not have backed down! I am disappointed.
We are a nation of laws. If a court determines that the land belongs to the
Federal Government or to the state of Nevada, the rancher needs to pay all his
back rent (grazing fees) to the proper owner. Either the owner has legal
standing or he does not. Let the courts work it out. If people are showing up
with guns...while they may feel powerful for a few minutes they are bullies with
childish notions of right and wrong. After paying back rent the rightful
owner..probably the federal government (which is all of us) can decide not to
rent the land to the tenant any more. I have rental property and would expect
the force of government to remove a tenant that I did not want in my rental
property. Why should this be different? If my tenant buys a 44 Magnum and says
he won't pay rent ...am I to accept that ...or get a bigger gun? I do not
believe intelligent people need to resort to gunfights. Maybe it is the
intelligent part that is the problem in this case.
Worf says " Hmm? So we should pay government for the right to own
anything? "It would be different if he owned the land - but he
doesn't. He doesn't have a deed nor a title to that land. He
hasn't paid property taxes on that land. He has no instrument that he has
any legal right to that land at all. In his own words, he doesn't even
have a contract with the government to use the land - that is his own words.
He is just using it. To make money. To feed his cattle. At no
cost to himself.What if my clients stopped paying their royalties in
Texas? Fair is fair - right? If this man owned this land, and the
government was taking it from him, or denying its use to him… I would
stand by him in a second.
Let's get a little history/perspective here. This has been going on since
the 1800's. Back then they were called "Range Wars". Cattle barens
trying too get all the water and the land for his use and driving others out. We
solved (?) the water problem with the Colorado River program. Which was
designed to guarantee irrigation water to the farmers and potable water to the
public. (Except for those in Cal.) As for the land, I suspect that 60-70% of the
land in Nevada is OWNED by the Federal Government. Yet is being managed quit
well by the ranchers/farmers/states. Who has a greater interest to guarantee
that the land is taken care of than those who gain their livelihood from it?
Indeed, is not the Bundy family legacy of 140 years enough proof of his
diligence. Yet for the Desert Turtle we have this mess. Welcome to Washington
management of our natural resources. To Nevada and any other western state I
say. Get your land back and manage it in your state legislatures.
He said he would pay the fees to the State, not the Feds.
Mr. Bundy is simply a thief if he has reigned paying grazing fees so many years
ago. He is stealing from everyone, to include the many supporters who have
written before me.The comment about Read may/may not be true.
Because it's in print somewhere does not make it true. I would welcome the
use of the land for green energy.Pay your bills Mr. Bundy, and I
could listen to your side.
@BJ61:* Voters are not wise enough to hold government accountable.
History shows that.* This country was set up not having taxes. Bundy has
backbone and is a patriot.* Greedy politicians set the fees, after the
land was in the family. That doesn't make Bundy dishonest.* People
need to pay for foodstamps more than Bundy on a ranch. Let's not
Commenters who focus on cows or fees or tortoises--all of which I personally
like--are missing the major issue. Clive and millions of other Westerners simply
feel the Federal Government should not control the majority of land in those
several western States. On the other side, millions of other Americans prefer
the status quo.I'm not saying either opinion is inherently
right or wrong. However, based on extensive comparison of Federal vs. State
operations, the more efficient and in-touch organization is obvious. Comparing
government vs private control, say, BLM vs ranchers, the more attentive and
flexible group is also equally clear. I have had mostly good experiences with
both bureaucrats and ranchers.As with most other American issues, a
half-fix will probably prevail. And that's okay.
At the time the desert tortoise protection regs were put on the books, local
developers in SW Utah would show up to their site one morning, only to see a
tortoise slowly rumbling into their worksite. They would throw it in the back
of the truck, and drive it 20 miles into the desert.Why? Because
the law required them to cease any and all projects, report the siting of the
tortoise, and pursue and environmental impact study at their own cost. Bottom
line, in many cases this would mean financial ruin, given the resources and debt
tied up in a major development project. They had no recourse under the law.Some of the commenters who say Bundy is flaunting the law at great cost
to the US taxpayer need to educate themselves a bit more on how federal
environmental policy has slowly been infringing on the rights, businesses and
livelihood of small business owners throughout the Western States. Yes, we
should "obey, honor and sustain the law," but these regulations are an
existential threat to businesses like the Bundy's throughout the West, and
absent significant cash resources to fight the government in court, there's
little if any recourse.
On the one hand, I agree that the BLM's tactics bear the marks of Waco and
Ruby Ridge, so it was wise that they backed down before escalating tensions to
the point of extreme violence. On there other hand, the BLM is simply doing
what they have been tasked to do - enforce the laws in place. So I echo the
sentiments of those who are critical that the law of the land has been flaunted
for 2 decades.But I sincerely doubt that Mr. Bundy simply awoke one
morning and decided to stop paying his grazing fees, based on a spontaneous,
specious interpretation of the US Constitution.My guess is this has
everything to do with the heavy-handed environmental regulations that were put
in place in the early 90's to ostensibly protect the desert tortoise.Big business may have the resources to combat the federal government in
court when such regulations are put on the books, but the small businessman -
the local developer, the cattle rancher, the family farmer, do not. My guess is
the feds told him to move his cattle or pay egregious grazing rights fees.
It's almost April 15 everybody. Tax time!Apparently, it must be ok
now to refuse to pay your taxes if you feel you have legitimate reasons?Mr. Cliven Bundy of Bunkerville, Nevada, states he has legitimate reasons to
graze his cattle on public land without paying the required fees, and he's
done it now for 20 years! Media tells us lots of supporters were there to cheer
him on.Are we looking at the beginnings of a Tea Party Revolution?
I cringe at the thought of the federal government handing over land to the state
of Utah. Our legislators can not be trusted to be good stewards of our land. Of course people will disagree with me but I rather have the federal
government manage the land than this corrupt money grabbing state.
I will be amazed if my comment gets printed. BJ61 says Bundy is violating the
13th Articleof Faith. So is the LDS Church when it supports illegal immigration.
I admit I don't know the details here but I do know that our country is
based on the rule of law, whether it's illegal immigrants or land grazing
cattle. If we don't agree with the law, we go to the courts and attempt to
make change there. We don't round up our buddies and guns and take the law
into our own hands.If you are disappointed with Obama, you elect
somebody else. You don't decide to personally remove him from office.
Bundy is an embarrassment to Mormons and Americans everywhere.
I hardly see how peaceful Mr. Bundy warrants more military personnel being
called to arms than a terrorist attack on our consulate in Benghazi. Cows versus mortars and rockets. Which really warrants the big guns?It looks like our government is more interested in taking its citizens down
that protecting them.
Mr. Bundy is violating one of the 13 Articles of Faith of his church. That
article calls for him to honor, obey, and sustain the law and to be subject to
kings, presidents, and magistrates. He is doing none of those things. In fact,
he and his militia threatened the safety of those enforcing the law.
@ worfSo, the solution to "dishonesty and waste in politics"
is for Bundy to be dishonest and not pay his fees? Two wrongs don't make a
right. Bundy needs to pay for his use of our public lands, and wasteful
politicians need to be held accountable by voters.
What does the fact he is a Mormon have to do with anything? Why does that need
to be pointed out? Because Mormons are peaceful and honest in their dealings?
Every year politicians take hundreds of millions from their follow Americans for
lavish workshops, vacations, and other useless expenses. Do they pay fees, and
taxes on that?If not, lets take their cows.
Bundy and his supporters are freeloaders and gun-toating anarchists. America
only has a future if the rule of law prevails, and Bundy and his militia group
have no respect for the rule of law. The lands in question are clearly federal
lands. Federal agencies are assigned to manage those lands in the best possible
way. Following Mr. Bundy's logic, we don't need to obey any laws as
long as we can claim that we pre-date them or never agreed to them. Those
attitudes put our country and our society at risk. If Bundy's rights are
based on occupation, use, and "squatting," then he takes a back seat to
all of the native Americans who lived in the southwest long before any Bundys
showed up. If we take his approach, then I can occupy any military base for any
reason or can stop paying any taxes to any local, county, state, or national
government. The Bundy brigade doesn't represent America. It represents
lawlessness and selfishness.
Why does Mr Bundy get to ranch federal land for free? Federal land isn't
for the good of a single family and their pocket book. Maybe it's to be be
open space, maybe the government has other plans for it. Has he been paying
Nevada for the use of the land all this time? I doubt it. And he owes the
federal government a massive amount of cash. 25 years is very patient. I hope
they are back to take more of the cattle. He is using people. When the go the
government will be back. You only have the right to use to land you have a deed
to. In a way that is allowed. For instance you can dam up a river blocking water
to other properties. And the government can give you fair value of that if
it's needed for something else. This isn't complicated. You used to be
allowed to do something on public land. Years ago that changed. It's not
Remember the Alamo my friends!!!Our Freedoms are being limited
everywhere you look. someone needs to take a stand and next time we all need to
rally.If we are at the point that the government is ready to start
shooting demonstrators then the Leadership of this country needs to go.Nice job Obama. You have no idea what you are doing.
To sg:Bundy is breaking the law! What gives him and his supporters
the right to threaten the BLM employees with guns?? Those employees have
families too. If everyone in this country pulled a gun every time they
didn't get their way we would lose our way of life. We have
laws for a reason. If a law needs to be changed then do it the right way. I hope you don't knock on my door with a loaded gun because I
adamantly disagree with your philosophies.
Not just in Nevada but all over the west -- the people have been under the
Federal thumb, and state governments have lost revenue and freedom to act in
within their own borders. It is past time to seriously campaign for
stooping federal control of western lands.
As far as I am concerned I think it is time to treat the western states the same
way the states east of the Mississippi were treated and give all the
"public" land to the states. This should have been done at the time of
It's clear now why the government wants a ban on weapons. Our right to
bear arms is for protection against the government! If being
"progressive" leads to tyranny, suppression and armed conflict between
the government and it's own citizens and dirty deals with international
powers, then we'll do to progressivism what our ancestors did to England.
sg from newhall, CA, said: "...our tyrannical government and the
gestapo-like BLM"..."and let's not forget the stasi inspired
department of homeland security."Anybody want to guess the
preferred news source for sg, from newhall, CA?
Ignore the merits of the dispute over grazing fees.What is most
troubling is the fact that while we have more than 10 million illegal aliens in
this country, and probably tens of thousands in Clark County, Nevada, the
federal government's highest priority is to round up 900 head of cattle
from the Bundy family's remote ranch in Clark County.Even
worse, is the fact that the Bureau of Land Management can call in heavily armed,
highly militarized SWAT teams and agents from multiple states, with helicopter
support. All to lay siege to the home and ranch of an elderly rancher and his
family. How much did this massive federal para-military operation cost us
taxpayers? Who approved it, and who asked for it?The stories about
a possible "Dirty Harry" Reid connection may or may not be proven, but
certainly sound plausible.Thankfully, it appears that cooler heads
have prevailed, and the feds have backed down without murdering any more
peaceful citizens. The Weaver family in Idaho, and the Branch Davidians in Texas
were not so fortunate.I love my country but fear my government.
Hmm?So we should pay government for the right to own anything?It seems our political leaders have been the freeloaders."Its about stealing assets that belong to all of us".If
Obama can take tens of millions from us for vacations,--why can't Mr. Bundy
keep his ranch?Gary O, and UtahBlueDevil, please answer that.
Isn't it discriminatory to say Obama is more important?
He has stolen over $1 million. Seize his cattle, throw him in jail and lease the
property to someone who is going to pay the grazing fees.
I love it. Death to property rights…. from here on out, all federal
land is anyones to do what ever they want with. While the rest of us pay taxes,
our dear brother claims he has the right to this land, land he doesn't have
title to, land he doesn't pay taxes on, and land he uses for free.Here is an idea. I do consulting on drilling operations for the oil
companies. I think they should all stop playing their leases and drilling
contracts. If when the US bought the Nevada territories from Mexico does not
give them title to the land, the same could and should be also held true for all
government lands they acquired. By that virtue, no one should have to pay
leases or rights to use public lands. This not about a
patriot… but a freeloader who feels he shouldn't have to pay what
ever other citizen pays to use those lands. ITs about stealing assets that
belong to all of us.
What we have here in Mr Bundy, the cattle rancher, is just one more exploiter
who feels he has a right to enrich himself at the expense of every other
citizen.What do you want to bet he calls himself a
It's time for the militia to march and de-throne harry reid and his corrupt
family members. isn't it convenient that reid made his wealth from seizing
land from others. Then used Federal money to make improvements and then sell the
land for profit?Wake up democrats, stop following your big business
leadership.To make matters worst, harry reid and his family are in
bed with the Chinese.What a bunch of fluff that they claimed they
were saving a desert tortoise, when the plan was to shove this guy off of the
land and put solar farm paid by and run by the Chinese.How much
longer are we going to stand for this?
It's now coming to light that Democrat Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid
was behind the efforts to have Cliven Bundy’s cattle moved off of the land
his family have been grazing their cattle on for 140 years, in order to make
room for solar power stations.For any doubters, you are now seeing
how liberals operate when they are in control of the government...like
Oh puhlezzzzeee. Concerns about safety? Want to know what really happened? Alex
Jones at Prison Planet published a story showing that Harry Reid has been
working a deal for a "green energy" project with the Chinese that would
happen on that land. Matt Drudge picked up the story and Reid realized this
would be a nightmare.
Finally the people win won against our tyrannical government and the
gestapo-like BLM. Now it's time to demand the resignation of the head of
this agency, the removal of every single weapon and military vehicle that it
possesses and the resignation of the secretary of interior; and let's not
forget the stasi inspired department of homeland security. This is why We the
People will NEVER give up our arms or comply with the unconstitutional policies
of this corrupt administration.