@Truthseeker (Go Figure) Cardinal Burke lives in The Vatican. Which is
considered an actual country although it is in fact located in Italy.
@Tators...Excellent point Sir. Personally I could not agree any stronger. Thank
you for practicing birth control.
I would note also:Cardinal Burke lives in a country--Italy-- which
allows women to obtain abortions in state hospitals or private institutions for
free.Perhaps we could learn from Cardinal Burke and Italy: lets
move toward single-payer and then my employer doesn't get q vote on what
services I access.
Gary O,I do not know Christ like you claim to, but my opinion is that he
was niether liberal nor conservative. Christ was much more and no one was like
him before or after...One thing to think about, would Christ approve of his GOD
being taken out of schools, government or anything else in this world. I highly
doubt it. Neither liberal or conservative is perfect, therefore Christ was
@Chris B...Really? Again? Another post without actual fact and this one has
nothing to do with interstate intercollegiate athletic rivalries. Pope Francis
is most certainly not a conservative solely based on the notion that he is
against SSM which in fact he is not. (Please note his last several addresses
when he clearly spoke of St. Paul and his readings.) I'm most certain you
are aware that St. Paul is considered a highly recognized scholar in the
Catholic Church because you most definitely would not post prior to
@Happy Valley Heretic??? The Corner. By Josh Encinias. March 24,
2014 4:22 PM *Chief justice at the Vatican Cardinal Raymond Burke called
president Obama’s policies “anti-life” and
“anti-family” in an interview with Polonia Christiana magazine,
transcribed by Life Site News. “It is true that the policies of the
president of the United States have become progressively more hostile toward
Christian civilization. He appears to be a totally secularized man who
aggressively promotes anti-life and anti-family policies,” said Cardinal
Burke.The blaze. By Billy Hallowell Mar. 24, 2014 3:30pm .
Prominent U.S. Catholic Cardinal Blasts Obama as a totally Secularized
Man’ Who Is ‘Hostile toward Christian Civilization’. . U.S.
Cardinal Raymond Burke, overseer of the *Vatican’s highest court, recently
accused President Barack Obama of impeding Christians’ religious
liberties, charging that he “promotes anti-life and anti-family
policiesHe is the current Cardinal Prefect of the *Supreme Tribunal
of the Apostolic Signatura. “Catholic Answers”.RE
Truthseeker. True, He, called for withholding communion for Democratic
leaders(pro death stance )on abortion
If there are two different reports of how the meeting went, I am going to trust
the report given by the Pope. We already know that Obama is willing to lie to
get what he wants.
'Obama, Pope Franci's give distinctly different accounts of meeting
Thursday.Well yes, different accounts but not opposing accounts.And what is significant about that besides nothing?They're not joined at the hip, and they can both frame their own
descriptions.The Pope offered more of a religious perspective. And
Obama offered a more secular description.Wow! I'm stunned!
Re:donnNote:Cardinal Burke's comments came BEFORE Pres
Obama's meeting with Pope Francis. Cardinal Burke was not in the meetings
involving Pres Obama, so it is misleading to suggest he was representing what
transpired in the meetings.And as HVH pointed out, Cardinal Burke
was demoted from the Congregation of Bishops, though he retains his position in
the Catholic judiciary. He is not without controversy, having called for
witholding communion for Democratic leaders.
SCfan -Socialism? I'm not all that interested in isms.I want good governance. And so did the Founders. That's why they
gave us a government capable of solving problems.I want a government
that provides for and promotes the general welfare and guarantees the blessing
of Liberty to ourselves and out posterity.You may call that
"Socialism," if you want. Have at it.I definitely do not
want a bunch of confused ideologues in positions of power who insist that
government is inherently evil.That kind of leadership will
eventually nullify everything the Founders did for us.What the Right
Wing masses can't understand is that they are being exploited and
manipulated to further enrich the wealthy at the expense of everyone else,
including their own families.There is nothing noble or even remotely
reasonable in that.
@Chris BI find it interesting that you claim to "stand with him (the
pope)" on these issues when he has clearly stated on several occasions that
these "matters" (divisive social issue), should not be the focus of the
catholic church. The article reports what hi staff focused on and what they felt
was the focus of the meetings, I would be curious to know what the actual Pope
felt the focus was because I am willing to bet it was likely poverty and the
great disparity in wealth in the world, do you also support his view on the
actual issue that he has spent most of his time focused on?
Truthseeker got his info from --Vatican Press Office:@donn are you
being intentionally misleading? The "former" archbishop of St. Louis:
Cardinal Raymond Burke.Pope Francis’ decision to remove a
conservative American cardinal from the congregation that helps choose bishops.
The New York Times said that the pope “moved … against”
Cardinal Raymond Burke by not reappointing him to the Congregation of Bishops.
He was fired in december, so this has nothing to do with this visit.
RE: Truthseeker,Here is another earlier statement from the Vatican:VATICAN CITY (CBS St. Louis)— The Vatican’s chief justice feels
that President Barack Obama’s policies have been hostile toward
Christians.In an interview with Polonia Christiana magazine
–and transcribed by Life Site News — Cardinal Raymond Burke said
that Obama “promotes anti-life and anti-family policies.”“It is true that the policies of the president of the United States have
become progressively more hostile toward Christian civilization. He appears to
be a totally secularized man who aggressively promotes anti-life and anti-family
policies,” Burke told the magazine.The former archbishop of St.
Louis stated that Obama is trying to “restrict” religion.“Now he wants to restrict the exercise of the freedom of religion to
freedom of worship, that is, he holds that one is free to act according to his
conscience within the confines of his place of worship but that, once the person
leaves the place of worship, the government can constrain him to act against his
rightly-formed conscience, even in the most serious of moral questions,”
Here is the direct statement from the Vatican Press Office:"This
morning, 27 March 2014, the Hon. Barack H. Obama, President of the United States
of America, was received in audience by His Holiness Pope Francis, after which
he met with His Eminence Cardinal Pietro Parolin, Secretary of State, and
Archbishop Dominique Mamberti, Secretary for Relations with States. During
the cordial meetings, views were exchanged on some current international themes
and it was hoped that, in areas of conflict, there would be respect for
humanitarian and international law and a negotiated solution between the parties
involved. In the context of bilateral relations and cooperation between
Church and State, there was a discussion on questions of particular relevance
for the Church in that country, such as the exercise of the rights to religious
freedom, life and conscientious objection, as well as the issue of immigration
reform. Finally, the common commitment to the eradication of trafficking of
human persons in the world was stated."Note:Obama met with
other officials in addition to Pope Francis.Is it too much to hope
that DN could simply report facts--such as providing the actual statements and
let readers put whatever spin they prefer?
We have heard both speak. We have seen both act. We have had opportunity to
compare the words with the acts. That they would "report out"
differently is no surprise.
to FTI'd let off on the Catholic Church; If they'd let Dan
Brown & other Thriller authors into the Vatican Archives.
When push comes to shove, both of these men are politicians. I'm sure
their conversation covered a multitude of topics. When they came out of the
meeting, each spoke concerning a subject for which he was an advocate. I think
the truth lies with both of them . . . just not all of it with either.
Gk Willington is absolutely right both goverment and the Catholic church have a
long history of deception. It the Vatican over 500 years to admit their sins
Re : BobK"Sorry to see the DN reach again into bending the truth in
headlines seemingly meant to egg on the most conservative readers."Agree.You raise some exellent points. In contrast, this is
the title of an article on the visit:"Pope and Obama discuss
religious freedom, life issues, immigration "(CatholicNewsService)I would recommend reading the article from the Catholic News Service.
Big religion & Big government. Nothing to worry about here?
re: Tyler D[@bandersen – “If two people… both are
pointing a loaded gun at each other, should anyone interfere?”I’ll respond as soon as I have my jaw rewired and floor
replaced…]I got this one. Survivaal of the fittest, anyone?
Oh, wait. Conservatives and evolution. What was I thinking?
casual observer expressed my thoughts exactly. "This is a photo op for Mr.
Obama and little else. For the Pope it is a duty to meet with world
leaders." I will add that for Obama it was all about his
(Obama's) image. For Pope Francis it is all about doing God's will and
making the people He created better. I don't agree with
everything either of them promotes, but I respect the one that tells the truth
(Pope Francis), and I don't respect or believe the one who lies to promote
himself all the time (Obama).
Both men chose to emphasize different aspects of the conversation. Where does that constitute a lie? Imagine that. People finding
fault when Obama meets with the Pope. Shocking, I say. Shocking.
Obama and Pope Francis have different accounts of meeting. Wow one does not need
a truth meter to know which account to believe.
The Pope has absolutely No reason to lie. Obama does. Case closed.
Interesting that so many commentators like to speak for Jesus, yet we have a
prevalent attitude that revelation ceased with the apostles. You can't have
it both ways, folks!
It just seems to me that the media is trying to find conflict where there really
isn't any. They are looking for a story line that isn't there. They
are manufacturing an new "reality" of what really happened. We live in
an age of yellow press.
Sorry to see the DN reach again into bending the truth in headlines seemingly
meant to egg on the most conservative readers.It is completely
consistent with how the Vatican gives information that they included the
President's talks with everyone there in one statement. Making a big deal
that "O said this, Vatican said that" seems to me to be reaching.I always comment that a forum owned by the church of Jesus ought to pay
particular attention to the truth, report plainly, and let the reader decide. I
do not think that He would have wasted a moment of His time here in coloring
stories to reflect poorly on those who He judged. (Oh, wait a minute,
didn't He say something about not judging?)
Calm down everyone. This is a photo op for Mr. Obama and little else. For the
Pope it is a duty to meet with world leaders. They are both well intentioned and
have some good ideas while some ideas are less so.
@Tators – “I'm not opposed to birth control... But forcing
others to support it via including it in private employer mandated health
insurance is an intrusion into religious freedoms.”Perhaps,
but given the percentages I noted do you really believe it rises to the level of
controversy? I think it’s more likely that this is driven by politics and
not (so much) by religion.And I’ve seen studies going both
ways on children of homosexuals so I don’t think your view is a slam dunk
by any means. And given that we do not mandate mother & father families for
all children (I would guess being raised by a single parent would have worse
outcomes than two homosexual parents) this hardly seems like a justified reason
to deny them basic rights.But kudos for at least making an argument
based on real morals (well-being) instead of the debate stopper “my faith
tells me it’s wrong.”@bandersen – “If two
people… both are pointing a loaded gun at each other, should anyone
interfere?”I’ll respond as soon as I have my jaw rewired
and floor replaced…
In reality, Pope Frances espouses some left leaning and some right leaning
ideas. A realistic assessment of his views would not put him in the
conservative or the liberal camp.Whats wrong with that? He is very pro religion, (big surprise there) and very anti abortion. However
he would certainly decry the disparity in wealth in America and across the
world.Neither political side can claim that the Pope is "with
them". On a side note, Pope Francis is a breath of fresh air
when it comes to religious leaders. Going out incognito to personally tend to
the poor is just the kind of thing that Jesus taught.I am very
impressed with him. I hope he lives a long life and continues to set such a
Don't get too excited libs, the Pope is still clearly a crank who places
the condemnation of birth control over the spreading of AIDS. Beware the
prophets who use soothing words but are wolves in sheep's clothing. I doubt
if Jesus would recognize any of the organization's who claim his name.
Tyler D: If two people hate (or love)each other and both are pointing a loaded
gun at each other, should anyone interfere? After all, its just between them
right? No one else is hurt, right?
Happy Valley Heretic,Why are you associating Tator's comments
with Obama being an Anti-Christ? He never wrote such a thing nor even insinuated
as far as my reading of all the comments. Personally, I find his/her historical
views more in line with reality than your own. Regarding Worf; It
wasn't him who claimed that "if you like your insurance, you can keep
it." and the associated statements that have proven to be lies. And so what
if he mentioned two similar commandments. Not a big deal. His point is still
valid. Claiming that conservatism is "angy, vengeful, insecure
and racist" simply shows how judgmental you personally are. Judgmental
people always lose much of any credibility they may've had with the rest of
their statements. By so doing, you certainly lost any credibility with me and
undoubtedly many other readers. You can do better than that. I would
encourage you to at least try to be more open minded towards those who
don't share your particular ideological views.
@ Tyler D:I'm not opposed to birth control. My wife and I have
used it a lot. But forcing others to support it via including it in private
employer mandated health insurance is an intrusion into religious freedoms. As
such (and it's hard to deny) it's currently a very controversial issue
that the Supreme Court is just now taking up. Read my previous
statement again. I never once stated that I'm personally opposed to birth
control. And I don't believe anyone is being hurt by its use. My stance is
that it's use is very personal. And as such, it should be paid for by
whomever chooses to use it, and not forcibly by the public (via nationally
mandated insurance), since many in the public are religiously opposed to it. I simply mentioned that the issue is still controversial in our country, and
as such, its also contentious. My biggest negative regarding
homosexual marriage is that it doesn't allow a normal child rearing
atmosphere, where many social studies have proven being raised by a father and
mother is normally the best environment for children, who then usually end up
with fewer adult issues.
@CylonesRus Really! Obama is the "Antichrist"?@Tator. Your version of history is the conservative one, unfortunately it
isn't based in reality anymore than "Obama is the Antichrist."worf said:Some things Obama can learn from the Pope:*
thou shalt not lie* thou shalt not bear false witnessWorf
could learn from his own post...Really, those are the same thing, not 2
different commandments. So, are you lying to make your list seem
longer?If Christ was a conservative, he would have taught
judaism.God of the old Testament definitely conservative...Angry,
vengeful, insecure (see the 1st 3 commandments) racist (see chosen people) and
impatient for someone outside linear time.
GaryOI certainly get a lot more news stories that the media is not
covering by listening to Rush. As for Obama and the Pope, the only area these
two seem to agree is in the unequal economics of the people in the world. I
wonder if the Pope knows that both John and Matthew in the New Testament made
statements that the poor will always be with us. That was the same as Jesus
himself saying it. The only way an economy can work to make all people equal to
some degree is to have government control a lot of it. We already have that in
this country, particularly with Obama, giving all kinds of financial aid and
such to Americans. The next step, socialism. You want that? If so just be
honest and admit it.
GaryOI've never once advocated myself as a follower of Rush
Limbaugh. I am not. Apparently you follow him more than I do, since I
hadn't yet heard the quote you claim he made. Nor is Rush recognized as
being a universal spokesman for conservatism. He's not. He's actually
an outer-fringe extremist... similar to Al Sharpton in the other ideologue
direction.By trying to bring him into the argument, you are diluting
your personal position and demonstrating it's stand-alone weakness.The Pope's "who am I to judge" comment should not be taken
as any kind of endorsement of homosexual advocacy. It's not. The Catholic
church spent much time, effort and funds in support of California's
@Tators – “… beliefs regarding birth control and homosexual
marriage... two very controversial issues still causing contention in the
U.S.”But why?I mean I sort of get it with respect
to homosexual marriage because it’s new and people (conservatives
especially) are usually frightened of change and often imagine the worse.But birth control… I don’t get this one at all. 99% of all
Americans including 97% of Catholics have used birth control. Seems like the
American people have spoken (by their actions) on this one and in terms of % of
population, it is about as controversial as the “Elvis still lives”
belief.But from a moral perspective (not to be confused with
religious) neither issue seems very troubling. When two gay people
get married or someone uses birth control, who is being harmed?
Tators - The Pope is still regressive regarding birth control and abortion, but
his comments regarding gays have distinguished him from other Popes.His "Who am I to judge" remark set a new standard there.Otherwise though, yeah the pope sounds just like a Communist (ie. Liberal in
the minds of "Conservatives"). Just ask Rush Limbaugh.
He'll tell you. Unless . . . NO it couldn't be . . .
You're not suggesting that Rush misled us, are you?!
GaruO...You label the Pope as being liberal. Since when is being
strongly opposed to abortion, birth control, divorce and homosexual marriage
considered liberal?Answer: It's not.Based on past
actions (and actions speak louder than words), Obama is an admirer of the Pope
only when it proves to be politically expedient. As worf mentioned, Obama
could learn some very good lessons from the Pope regarding both his political
views on controversial issues and also regarding his personal conduct... both
which have caused him to drop substantially in the approval ratings of the
American public. He's now a post-WWII low for 6th year presidents.
@GaryO and Happy Valley Heretic:The only thing Obama has in common
with the Pope is a believe in income equality... a much bigger issue in third
world countries than in America, where capitalism catapulted America to become
the strongest and greatest country on earth. Many liberals have recently tended
to forget that their current comfortable lifestyles can be attributed directly
to that fact. There are huge differences in Obama's and the
Pope's beliefs regarding birth control and homosexual marriage... two very
controversial issues still causing contention in the U.S. and many other places
around the world. I noticed you two both conveniently forget to mention that
fact when pontificating the relationship of limited commonalities between the
Pope and the president. And when it comes to both issues, I will always
follow a conservative man of God as opposed to a liberal secularist. Biblical
history indicates that's always a better bet.
The president is again is moving his lips. What Pres & Pope may have in
common, is the end result, how they get there is how they depart in about 180
degree direction. The Pope Exhorts, Obama extorts (uses IRS, EPA, ACA). Charity that is forced is not charity at all. The pope exhorted corporations
to help the poor, the POPE statement on unfettered capitalism is true, reference
the financier of liberals, Soros. But capitalism with Christian values is what
America was built upon, the example here is the enemy of the left (Senator Reid
specifically) The Koch brothers who doesn't go around destroying a
country's economies to fill his pockets like Soros does, to finance the
leftist agendas, but has given much to charities serving the poor, communities
in general, and to his employees (See 1 Tim 5:8). Corinthians 10:29 States
this: Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there
is liberty. The forcing the ADA on America is anti-liberty, thus
anti-Christ;. Who you have aligned yourself with? Does the name start with a
Capital C or a L. Christ "By there works ye shall know them".
Some things Obama can learn from the Pope:* thou shalt not lie* thou shalt not bear false witnessPerhaps Obama can learn to
strengthen his Christian beliefs.
Pope Francis is doing what Jesus would want him to do in these regards. Not
casting the first stone.
Not much of a supporter of organized religion, but this new Pope, he is acting
like, dare I say Christ.From day one he's done things that upset the
catholic royals, but really seem to jive with his mentors teachings....and Ditto to GaryO's comment.
Pope Francis is a great conservative who supports only marriage between a man
and a woman. He is also against abortion. Pope Francis is doing what Jesus
would want him to do in these regards.Pope Francis is God's
leader on earth today and I stand with him on these important matters I have
Absolutely President Obama is a great admirer of Pope Francis. And why not?
They have a lot in common. Pope Francis took his name from Saint Francis of
Assissi, the patron saint of animals, the environment, and the poor. Obama and Pope Francis are both symbols of change. They both share the same
values, and they're both Liberals, and they both believe in human rights.
And Rush Limbaugh says both of them sound like Communists.It's not surprising that both Obama and the Pope are Liberals . . .
Because as we all know, Jesus is a Liberal too.