Comments about ‘High court seems divided over birth control rule’

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Published: Tuesday, March 25 2014 2:26 p.m. MDT

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Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

"but he said only the kind of family-owned companies he represents would make such claims, not large, multinational corporations."

Except one of his clients is Hobby Lobby with 600 stores and 15,000 employees. That's pretty large. Is Walmart family owned? What kind of definition would be used for that?

slcdenizen
t-ville, UT

Here's what I've noticed about the religious zealots like the owners of Hobby Lobby who insist that their particular brand of christianity is the correct one and they therefore deserve special treatment. Despite their confidence and certainty, they will shriek and moan at the slightest glimpse of an offense. How should those of us who disbelieve in God or religion understand this? Does their god not bestow comfort in the face of opposition?

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

So long as companies like Hobby Lobby buy and sell products from Communist China -- their arguement of "religion" and "not promoting abortions" is moot and hypocritical.

Grow and show some integrity.
Put your money where your mouth is why don't you?

Abeille
West Point, UT

slcdenizen -

This has nothing to do with Hobby Lobby being a "religious zealot", as you say. It also has nothing to do with their belief that "their particular brand of Christianity is the correct one...". As the article mentions most clearly, the litigants feel any form of birth control used after conception violates their religious beliefs. Personally, I don't agree with their position, but I respect their right to believe as they wish - just as I respect your right to "disbelieve". The question before the court is whether a corporation, C-Corp, or LLC - all entities that are taxable, stand on their own, and limit the liability of their owners - have the right to mirror the owner's religious beliefs. It's not so straight-forward.

In the end, I hope they can find some way of working around this issue and allow the owners to avoid violating their religious beliefs while also allowing the women that work there the opportunity to acquire birth control, if they desire. Perhaps Hobby Lobby keeps its current Health Code plan, but employees have the right to personally and directly supplement the plan another way - perhaps through the Affordable Care Act.

CBAX
Provo, UT

Example of a typical complainer:

Complains that lack of birth control is war against women,

Ignores hollywood, pornography, and the fashion industry etc.

Perhaps you could CHOOSE not to get pregnant if you WEREN'T just an OBJECT to be used by another. Go ahead and hate but please hate with priority!

slcdenizen
t-ville, UT

@Abeille

"I hope they can find some way of working around this issue and allow the owners to avoid violating their religious beliefs"

Thus the silliness of the whole situation. The God of the Bible, whom they claim to worship, never mentions contraception. Hence one must conclude that the "religious beliefs" are an interpretation or third-step conclusion from some verse or traditional understanding. Fine, then I invoke the right to slay my neighbor for working on the Sabbath, which I can find explicitly condoned in the Bible. Or, perhaps if I can't follow that expressly permitted command, I can physically silence women in my church as mentioned by Paul, which in this case I'll also consider my place of work because my religion isn't confined to my own home. My God is everybody's God and I won't hear otherwise. Have I devolved into insanity yet? In just a short paragraph? No, sir, I do not want to slip back down the slippery slope of allowing one's religious beliefs to impinge on others. Our society was the birth child of the enlightenment and we should continue on that trajectory.

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@CBAX
Lots of women use birth control for a variety of reasons, many of them don't involve casual sex outside of marriage. Many want to limit the number of children they have in their marriage. Some have health issues and certain contraceptives help with it. Some just don't want to deal with a pregnancy if heaven forbid they should be raped. Besides... where's the complaints about how all these insurance companies cover "male enhancement" pills? Now THAT's something that has little purpose other than helping people have more sex (though even then that can help some who want to have children but are having difficulty with it).

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@CBAX
Speaking of which... that girlfriend I had who used contraception in part in case someone raped her, that wasn't paranoia, her sister was a victim of that very thing. In Michigan, health insurance policies aren't allowed to cover abortion so if someone wanted coverage for abortion for any reason including rape they'd need to buy what is effectively "rape insurance". It's disgusting, but hey, that's the kind of thing you all support making women have to do.

One opinion
west jordan, UT

Health Care is the service that so many are concerned about and need. Birth control is a private matter that should not be covered by Health Insurance. This should be an individual commitment and if someone wants to practice birth control let them pay for that. If a company does not want to participate in birth control as part of their insurance they should not have to. How many years have we participated in company health insurance that did not offer birth control? I've never had it in my insurance. If someone doesn't want to work for a company because of they don't include birth control in their insurance, look somewhere else for a job. What kind of a nation are we becoming that think that other people should pay for our every need?

J in AZ
San Tan Valley, AZ

Let's make sure that we understand the central fact of the case. There are four approved drugs or devices approved in the US for prevention of pregnancy that prevent the implantation of a blastocyst (fertilized egg) in the uterus. These are the birth control methods that the Green family currently does not cover in their health plan for their employees and object to on moral grounds. They currently provide in their plan the 16 other approved birth control drugs that prevent either ovulation or fertilization. There's no war on women here, no denying legitimate health care needs. They just don't want to be involved in terminating a pregnancy that has already started.

J in AZ
San Tan Valley, AZ

Schnee - Walmart is a publicly traded corporation,you can buy Walmart stock. Hobby Lobby is a closed corporation and the public cannot buy stock. Teh green family are the sole owners of the business and all of it's assets. People incorporate family businesses in order to get better tax rates and to prevent their homes and personal property from becoming part of the assets of the business.

Should that deprive them of the right to not spend their assets on something that they are morally opposed to?

the truth
Holladay, UT

First,

The first amendment limits what congress can do in regards to first amendment rights.

It doed not define who can exercise those right, nor limit the people or how they organize themselves in exercising those rights.

Second.

Businesses provide healthcare as a benefit, paid for in part or entirely by the business,

as such, they are entirely in their rights in deciding what benefits they will pay for.

The employee is free to pay for additional coverage on their own,

Finally,

Religion is not only something that is practiced in private, but can be and is part of every aspect of the lives or religion people and religions.

The government has no constitutional power, to limit religion in the public square nor to limit it's exercise in the public square.

The government can not confine it to home and church. Nor should it ever.

So what is the issue?

People demanding things from their employers they have no right demanding.

And in this case it is the federal government demanding something that is violation of the first amendment.

David
Centerville, UT

Birth control & abortion should not be part of health insurance plans. Businesses should not be required to offer them as part of an insurance policy. And for my liberal friends who will raise this issue, yes, Viagra should also not be part of any insurance plans.

How many decades have liberals stated that the government should stay out of the bedroom. They should allow personal, private decisions to be made when it comes to sex. Well...keep the government from forcing employers to include birth control, Viagra, and abortion in their insurance plans. And the government shouldn't require me to pay for your personal decisions.

If someone wants a plastic surgery procedure, will I be taxed on that? Will that be the next thing required in Obamacare?

What about vision correction, teeth whitening, hair plugs? Those are all elective procedures.

Americans that want birth control, pay for it yourself. Take some personal responsibility.

Madsen Hall Magic
Centerville, UT

I believe you cannot separate the values of the CEO from the values of the business. If the CEO lives his life according to Judeo-Christian values, and wants his business to reflect those deep, heart-felt values, s/he should be at liberty, and free, to create such a business culture. This is America! We are free to worship, yes, even through our business we can extend our worship to how we serve others in the business.

If a CEO objects personally to abortion and birth control, s/he should be free to create a business culture that reflects those beliefs so that s/he does not wound his/her conscience of belief. If an employee wants those as part of an employee compensation package, they are free to seek employment where the insurance covers those things. Nobody is forced to offer or accept something they do not want. The government should not be forcing this upon any of us.

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

The morally superior Green family is concerned more with the bottom line then abortion.
This is born out of the fact, that they have no problem buying most of their products from China
which not only pays for abortions but still Encourages abortion after one child.

The bottom line is Hobby Lobby is a business that want's to tell other businesses what they can and cannot do.

The private insurance company is being told by Hobby Lobby what it can and can't offer in the way of healthcare.

Hobby Lobby want's to tell you and your doctor what it believes is best.

So once again as others have pointed out, these religious folks think they should be able to force their beliefs onto employees who don't share their brand of religion.

Giving businesses "Personhood" would be a very bad idea, the republicans should start the legislation next year.

If the business and the owners are one, why are they legally separated from liability?

george of the jungle
goshen, UT

What are they thinking. If people can't afford birth control Are they old enough to have sex.

LovelyDeseret
Gilbert, AZ

The Court said in Windsor that having to pay taxes that others don't have to pay is discriminatory, but when religious people have to pay taxes that others don't have to pay that is acceptable? The females of the Court are operating under a double standard for those that they agree with.

SAS
Sandy, UT

One thing nobody seems to be talking about:

The Green family could be operating their business as individual proprietors/partners, but they choose not to. Instead, they've chosen to operate as a corporation--a government-created legal entity that shields them from individual liability for their business's actions and grants them favorable tax treatment.

Their arguments about religious freedom would be far more persuasive if they did business in their capacity as natural persons. Instead, they're hiding behind the special treatment that government provides corporations, while decrying how government impinges on their religous freedom.

patriot
Cedar Hills, UT

this won't stop with corporations make no mistake. The next domino to fall will be churches being FORCED to support late term abortion via the morning after pill. Liberty is DEAD in this country. Get used to it.

wrz
Phoenix, AZ

"High court seems divided over birth control rule"

Of course. The ladies on the court seem to be letting their personal feelings interfere with the application of the provisions of the US Constitution's 1st Amendment.

---------------

"Here's what I've noticed about the religious zealots like the owners of Hobby Lobby who insist that their particular brand of Christianity is the correct one..."

Oops. It's not about whose religion is correct. It's about not allowing the government to interfere with the rights of citizens to practice religion uninhibited.

"The God of the Bible, whom they claim to worship, never mentions contraception."

Doesn't matter. You could worship a stone pillar of Baal nether of which mention contraception. The right to worship is not to be infringed.

"Fine, then I invoke the right to slay my neighbor for working on the Sabbath..."

Slaying your neighbor, on any day, is not a good idea. Could put you behind bars... or worse.

"Many want to limit the number of children they have in their marriage."

It's not rocket science. Go to the drug store and buy, for a few dollars, the pill or paraphernalia to prevent pregnancy.

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