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Comments about ‘Polygamy bill held up pending Utah legal case’

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Published: Monday, Feb. 3 2014 3:19 p.m. MST

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RedShirtCalTech
Pasedena, CA

To "UTSU" let me get this straight. You agree taht marriage is about more than sex, yet your argument that they are unequal uses sex.

How does sharing the same partner make them unequal? Are you saying that if a spouse becomes incapicated and can no longer take part in sexual relationships that they are considered to not be married? You still have not explained how they are unequal. Your example of an emperor and his concubines is irrelavant because an emperor has supreme power and concubines are wives with no claim on inheritance.

Again, how are they unequal? What does sharing the same man have to do with being unequal?

USU-Logan
Logan, UT

@RedShirt

I have to bring up the issue of sex because you start to equate spouse-spouse relationship with parent-child relationship.

"How does sharing the same partner make them unequal?" Don't try to make a straw man here. I have never said such thing, That's your logic fallacy. For the four wives who share their husband, they are equal one to another, what is not equal here is the husband and one of his wives in this arrangement.

RedShirtCalTech
Pasedena, CA

To "USU-Logan" so then you agree that 1 man with 4 wives is equal to 1 man and 1 woman.

What is in inequality here. You keep saying that there is an inequality, yet cannot define the inequality. Please tell us what is not equal?

Brahmabull
sandy, ut

UTSU

We don't live in a fantasy land here. Do you honestly think that in every legal marriage that the partners are equal? Equal in what way. One does more financially, one may do more around the house, one may have more say here or there and one may do what the other says. Yes, traditional marriages must have all partners exactly equal... right.

Why not just let adults choose how and who they want to marry as you are afforded that same right. It is not logical to allow a man to sleep with many women at a time (and have children with multiple people that aren't his spouse) but then condemn somebody who wants to do the same thing but live with them and take care of the children. How is that fair?

Let adults choose how they want to live and move on.

USU-Logan
Logan, UT

@Brahmabull

"Do you honestly think that in every legal marriage that the partners are equal?"
Would you please stop making straw man in here? No one believes in every single legal marriage the partners are equal, just like not all one-father-one-mother families are loving and supportive to their children.

However, in a monogamous marriage, the couples have each other and only each other. Monogamy at least provides a framework of equality as an institution.

But for polygamy, like Mr. Brown's marriage, the husband has 4 wives or partners, but the woman not only has merely one husband, she has to share her only partner with 3 other women. Such arrangement is not equal from the very beginning, it's a non-starter.

"Let adults choose how they want to live and move on".
I agree, and Mr. Brown should not be prosecuted, the law to put polygamous family in jail should be repealed. However, if they go further and ask government to recognize their polygamy, the government has legitimate interest to deny.

Brahmabull
sandy, ut

USU-Logan

So as long as you have the framework of equality to start then it is legal. Gotcha. I do, however, agree with you that the state doesn't have to recognize the marriage, but should leave them alone as long as all parties are of legal age and are happy with the arrangement.

Although I don't know Mr. Brown or any other polygamist personally, I tend to think that it could be an ideal arrangement for some people and they can make it work rather well.

RedShirtCalTech
Pasedena, CA

To "USU-Logan" you still have not expressed what is unequal. You keep saying that things are not equal.

Does sharing a husband really lead to anything unequal? Do the women still have access to him even if it isn't "their week" for him?

Using your logic, as children are born, women lose a portion of their husbands. Is that really the case?

In many ways, those women can have better lives than women in monogomous marriages. Think of it this way. If 1 wife wants to persue a career and 1 wants to say home, they can both do that and raise children without the risks of daycare.

I am still waiting for a description about how things are not equal if a woman shares her husband with other women.

Gregorio
Norco, CA

Reduce and simplify activities.

USU-Logan
Logan, UT

@RedShirtCalTech

When will you ever stop equating spousal relationship with parent-child relationship? Do I need to remind you again that married couples have sex? Not only spousal relationship is a sexual one, it is life partnership, parent-child relationship is not.

With or without child, in a monogamous marriage, the couples have each other and only each other as life partner, the two spouses are equal in such an institution.

But in Mr. Brown's polygamous marriage, the husband has 4 partners, the woman however, not only merely has one husband, she has to share her only partner with 3 other women. husband and wife are simply not equal in such an institution.

If you believe that in polygamy, like Mr. Brown's, husband and wife are equal, fine by me. I'd better live on a corner of the roof than argue with you over the same issue again and again. but don't expect others will buy your argument, especially a judge, that Mr. Brown vs any of his four wives, are equal in such arrangement.

if you still don't understand, or do not want to understand, I can't help you.

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@Chris B
"Where are the libs and the cries for equality for these people?"

Do you badger interracial couples if they support equality for polygamists? I'm just wondering since you seem to think a person who supports any one expansion in marriage should support all expansions so you must think interracial marriage supporters are hypocrites. At least you would if you didn't have double standards.

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

You two (Redshirt and Chris B) do realize that if you prove that gay rights supporters are just like you in that they oppose polygamy due to some form of moral disgust you're just proving you oppose gay marriage due to a similar moral disgust, right? One of the things your side is supposed to be doing in court is prove that Amendment 3 isn't based on animus. So you're kinda making a good argument for gay marriage... and a decent one for polygamy. You oppose both so... probably not the way to go.

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

To "USU-Logan" lets look at what legalizing polygamy could do. Imagine that you have 4 gay people that love eachother and want to get married. You now a situation where each person in the relationship has 3 partners. Is there any inequality?

You said earlier that mariage is about more than sex, but the only inequality that you can find when 1 man marries multiple women has to do with sex. Is there any rational reason why there is an inequality?

If anything the women receive more beneifits in a polygamous marriage than in a monogamous relationship. They have less need of babysitters. They can more easily persue careers outside of the home, and have a built in support network for problems that they may encounter. Plus, if any one of them is sick, they can receive better care from the multiple people that are not ill.

So again, tell us what the problem is with polygamy.

USU-Logan
Logan, UT

@Redshirt1701

Don't already admit that Mr. Brown and his wives are unequal when it comes to sex?

Sex is a fundamental part of marriage. and that is exactly why it is absurd for you to equate spouse-spouse relationship with parent-child relationship.

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

To "USU-Logan" if sex is the only thing that makes them unequal, then I don't really see a problem with polygamy.

What you have failed to do is consider the group of gays. If a group of gays decide to enter into polygamy, is there anything unequal there? If gays can be choose polygamy where they are all 100% equal, why can't straight people have the same choice even if they do not all have the same number of sex partners?

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