Comments about ‘Authors: American dream alive for Mormons, others due to 3 shared traits’

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Published: Sunday, Jan. 26 2014 12:22 p.m. MST

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gmlewis
Houston, TX

I think that Joseph in Egypt must have read this book ... sounds like the perfect example.

Midwest Mom
Soldiers Grove, WI

The purpose of this is what? What America needs is to start finding the things we hold and value in common with each other, not what makes us different. All of God's children are exceptional. This is just more divide and conquer.

The Scientist
Provo, UT

"...three shared traits: a superiority complex, insecurity and impulse control".

Now all the neuroticism among my neighbors makes sense.

But it still is not very flattering.

Bob K
portland, OR

From the article: We know that group superiority claims are specious and dangerous, yet every one of America’s most successful groups tells itself that it’s exceptional in a deep sense. Mormons believe they are “gods in embryo” placed on earth to lead the world to salvation; they see themselves, in the historian Claudia L. Bushman’s words, as “an island of morality in a sea of moral decay.”

--- This is useful for non-mormons to hear, to try to understand what is behind mormon thinking and actions. Of course, it is America, and any and all groups are entitled to feel they are leaders.

--- While granting all that is good about mormon culture, one can also observe that the purposes of group members can evolve, not always for the better, when the group becomes established and new generations come.

It is hard to keep the same moral compass after you get rich. The original purpose might be muddied by new ones (avoiding influences that might change the group).

The present question: Is mormon opposition to marriage equality truly about morality, or is it about keeping lds born Gay from wanting to make the church change?

DN Subscriber
Cottonwood Heights, UT

They may have correctly identified successful groups, but are wildly off the mark on the reasons for their prosperity.

How about giving credit to these traits common among those groups:

-- Belief in hard work as a means to bettering one's life, instead of blaming others and playing the victim, waiting for handouts.

-- Belief in the value of education and actually attending school and learning- with useful majors, not liberal PC fluff courses.

-- Intact two parent families providing appropriate gender role models, firm discipline and a sense of personal responsibility and accountability.

-- Strong religious values emphasizing personal worth, the concepts of good and evil (with rewards for good and punishment for bad behavior), and traditional moral values.

These factors make a real difference in how successful people are. Too bad every one of these is under assault and denigrated by the liberals.

Luke Nelson
West Valley City, UT

@Bob K

I'm not sure that description from the article is necessarily useful for understanding our thinking and actions. We believe that everyone has the potential to become like God, not just members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

NeilT
Clearfield, UT

Perfect description of Larry H Miller. His insecurity led to the establishment of a business empire. Right out of his autobiography.

Bob K
portland, OR

Luke Nelson
West Valley City, UT
"@Bob K
I'm not sure that description from the article is necessarily useful for understanding our thinking and actions. We believe that everyone has the potential to become like God, not just members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

--- Of course you do, we know that. The downsides are that many of you tend to look down on those who do not see it your way, and we see the doorknocking and TV ads as rude.

@DN Subscriber
The fact that you add "instead of" to the listed purposes shows an unfortunate sourness toward fellow Americans, and stretches the truth too much.

Goodhearted, intelligent, responsible liberals want all the same things you list, but believe that folks who can't quite get there on their own need some help, not condemnation, judgement, and blame (which seem quite un-Christian to me)

As far as role-model families: Utah and Bible Belt States have high divorce rates. May I suggest that tens of millions of parents who impregnate or marry carelessly or too young are 10,000 times more likely to damage kids than loving same sex parents who CHOSE their children?

Christopher B
Ogden, UT

Bob K, and may I suggest that children have the BEST chance at success when they have a mother AND a father in their lives. With gay "parents", there is no chance of that.

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

The ability to delay gratification seems a given. Numerous studies have confirmed this as a strong indicator of not only success but a generally happy and fulfilled individual.

Insecurity – OK, but it’s a quite simple exercise to identify groups in society that are insecure without showing any tendencies to outperform the norm.

Superiority complex – the authors of the NYT article did not cite one source to support this claim, and the groups they identify (Jew, Iranians, and Mormons) are demonstrated to be so by anecdote and stereotyping. That these groups outperform is a fact, but there are likely better explanations than this.

And as the authors point out, a superiority complex can easily become pathological – the last time we saw a country populated by two “superior” groups (Jews and Aryans) things did not turn out so well for the minority group.

Though it is taboo to suggest (or even to study in a scientific manner – e.g. the vilification of The Bell Curve), I’d guess IQ along with good character (whether due to innate traits, family upbringing, or culture) would have far more explanatory power here.

Say No to BO
Mapleton, UT

From the Ivy League Ivory Tower, promoted by the NYT.
May they sell lots of books.
We do love simplification, don't we?

DesertBill
St. George, UT

Bob K

You say "Goodhearted, intelligent, responsible liberals want all the same things you list, but believe that folks who can't quite get there on their own need some help, not condemnation, judgement, and blame (which seem quite un-Christian to me)"

I agree that condemnation and blame are un-Christian. Attending church is helping me to reduce that in myself. I don't want to get into a discussion of who gives more of their own to the needy. And I'm not saying that liberals don't. I just think it is irresponsible and incorrect to imply that conservatives don't.

Still a Mormon
Greenfield, IN

I can see why a stereotypical Mormon, Jew or Immigrant(I am thinking of individuals from the Middle East and India in particular, but also Hispanics) might fit into a category of Insecure, "Superiority Complex"(which is a negative and biased term for a high self esteem probably because of a rich culture), and Impulse Control.
But that is just the point it is a stereotype and who said the American Dream was good anyway it is in direct contrast to living within your means which is what I understand is taught within the Bible. With the exception of Immigrants I think that this highlights superficial and bad qualities of Judaism and Mormonism and should not be taken as a direct result of the teachings of those groups. For example the drive for social mobility and Utah has made Utah a big center for white collar crime. No one likes that.

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