Comments about ‘New Mexico legalizes same-sex marriage’

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Published: Thursday, Dec. 19 2013 6:57 p.m. MST

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spring street
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

@DN subscriber

it is truly a slippery slope of logic when you base your argument on a false pretense. Marriage as you would define it has not existed for thousands of years. It has been just over a hundred years in our country, not a biblical fact (full of polygamy) or a fact around the modern or ancient world.

Contrariusiests
mid-state, TN

@DN Subscriber 2 --

"If the sole criteria is that the parties to be married love each other, then there are truly no limits at all."

Here we go again.

Actually, there are at least TWO criteria for the legal recognition of any individual right.

1. There are actually a substantial number of citizens who want to do it;

and

2. Legally allowing them to do it won't significantly increase the risk of harm to other citizens.

Look up the harm principle.

Gay marriage does not significantly increase risk to anyone, compared to other forms of marriage.

Polygamy, incest, and so on DO significantly increase risk.

Therefore gay marriage is becoming legal -- and those other forms are not.

"...the constitutional right to marry properly must be interpreted to apply to gay individuals and gay couples (but) does not mean that this constitutional right similarly must be understood to extend to polygamous or incestuous relationships....the state continues to have a strong and adequate justification for refusing to officially sanction polygamous or incestuous relationships because of their potentially detrimental effect on a sound family environment. ..."

In re Marriage Cases, slip op. at n. 52, 79-80.

Serious
Rexburg, ID

It's not the religious argument that bothers me, it's the complete dismissal of biology. It bothers me when people start talking about God's law in public policy. Murder is forbidden in the ten commandments but it is also intrinsically wrong. Coffee is against the Word of Wisdom, but is not inherently evil, so I wouldn't support its prohibition. Same sex marriage, in my view, is intrinsically wrong. Biologically, it makes no sense at all.

Serious
Rexburg, ID

Furthermore, same sex marriage will bring harm to others. Because all same sex marriages are infertile, those couples will be waiting in line at the adoption agency. Children who likely would have gone to a home with a mother and a father will no be deprived of one of those valuable relationships. I love my Mom and Dad very much, I love them both equally. But they are different relationships. A male could not replace what I gained from my Mother. Likewise, a female could not replace my father.

My Wife and I love our children. My relationship with them is quite different than my wife's relationship with them. What gay marriage is, in my opinion, is a war on gender differences and the unique characteristics each gender brings to the relationship. Gay marriage is bizarre and backwards in that each marriage will be missing a vital ingredient... the opposite gender!

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

@higv – “Can use Bible to justify any belief.”

That’s true… so why not follow (to the letter) everything the Bible says?

Why pick out the couple of obscure passages to vilify people different from you when (as just two of many examples) I assume you are not wearing only single blend fabrics or stoning your children for talking back?

When religious people can provide a logical explanation for their myopic obsession with homosexuals while simultaneously ignoring many other prescriptions found in the Bible, then we may begin to respect their bigotry masquerading as religious devotion.

@Serious – “Biologically, it makes no sense at all.”

And yet God keeps creating these people… how’s that for Intelligent Design?

spring street
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

@ Serious: There are many, many children waiting to be adopted. There has never yet been a case of a couple not being able to adopt because there were no children available.

Additionally, single individuals are allowed to adopt - how is that less of a harm to a heterosexual couple than allowing a gay couple to adopt? How does that provide less of an access to both genders?

Another idea you are missing is assistive reproductive technologies - many same-sex couples have children that are biologically related to at least one of the parents.

The situations you posit exist in families other than those headed by same-sex parents. They are not a valid reason to prohibit same-sex marriage.

SoCalChris
Riverside, CA

Unfortunately this country IS becoming a theocracy -- of the bizarre religion of political correctness. One of its basic tenets is that gender is no more than a physical feature, like eye or hair color or skin color. Decisions are being handed down from judges like religious pronouncements. We're being told that SSM is somehow written in the fine print of the Equal Protection Clause (State and/or Federal). Those of us who support traditional marriage are simply too bigoted or provincial to understand that's it's been there all along!

In this country you're perfectly free to believe the Universe is one big miraculous cosmic accident. Fine. If you don't believe God men made and women different, at least have the honesty to acknowledge that nature endowed men and women with different characteristics designed to compliment one another in creating a family. It's perfectly rational to understand that society has, throughout history, put its stamp of approval on marriage between male and female for a reason.

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

@higv – “Can use Bible to justify any belief.”

That’s true… so why not follow (to the letter) everything the Bible says?

Why pick out the couple of obscure passages to vilify people different from you when (as just two of many examples) I assume you are not wearing only single blend fabrics or stoning your children for talking back?

When religious people can provide a logical explanation for their myopic obsession with homosexuals while simultaneously ignoring many other prescriptions found in the Bible, then we may begin to respect their bigotry masquerading as religious devotion.


@Serious – “Biologically, it makes no sense at all.”

And yet God keeps creating these people… how’s that for Intelligent Design?

Contrariusiests
mid-state, TN

@Serious --

"Biologically, it makes no sense at all."

Many nonhuman species practice homosexual behaviors out in nature. Therefore, it is perfectly natural.

"Children who likely would have gone to a home with a mother and a father will no be deprived of one of those valuable relationships. "

Gay couples aren't somehow stealing children from happy heterosexual homes. There are more than enough orphans and foster children to go around. In fact, thousands of US foster children age out of the system every year because there weren't enough adoptive parents. Gay couples also raise their own children from previous relationships, as well as in vitro fertilization and surrogacy -- just like any other infertile couple.

As the New Mexico judge said himself, infertility is NOT a good enough excuse for denying marriage to gay couples. They deserve the same rights as any other infertile couples.

And, btw, nobody has ever shown that kids do worse in stable gay-led homes than in straight-led homes. In fact, every group of child development experts in this country SUPPORTS gay marriage -- because they know that kids do just fine being raised by gay parents.

Really???
Kearns, UT

I love my mother and father, too. I love my brothers and sisters, their spouses and children. I don't want to destroy any of their marriages. What many of you don't understand is how lonely it is as a gay man within the LDS culture. Every day I am reminded by others that if I stay true to my faith I will be alone. The holidays are especially hard because there is so much focus on family. How can being alone be a blessing?

Normal Guy
Salt Lake City, UT

What bothers me is that judges make these decision. Decisions of this importance should always be done by vote.

I pity the day a judge determines that owning cars violates the constitution.

Ranch
Here, UT

"Barring them from getting married violates the equal protection clause of the state constitution."

-- As it also violates the Equal Protection clause of the National Constitution.

""Procreation has never been a condition of marriage ..."

-- And this will also play a part in the removal of Utah's Constitutional Amendment 3. This was one of the main arguments made by Utah's ban defenders.

"Under the ruling, clergy who disagree with same-sex marriage can decline to perform wedding ceremonies for gay and lesbian couples."

-- Which is as it should be.

@higv;

"Equal protection" is not in the Constitution? What your god wants is irrelevant (especially since he doesn't exist). Yes, we know your church supports discrimination; that's one of the reasons it is having such a hard time maintaining members.

@Serious;

Biologically, there are studies that indicate the female who has a homosexual in her lineage is more fertile and more likely to raise her offspring to adulthood. Possibly due to the aid she receives from her homosexual relatives. It is found throughout nature; ergo, it is "natural".

Additionally, as pointed out by the justices, procreation is not a requirement for marriage.

Ranch
Here, UT

@Normal Guy;

The judge's job is to determine the constitutionality of the ban. That is exactly what he did.

Do we get to vote on whether or not you get to marry? No? Then you do NOT get to vote on our marriages either.

Bebyebe
UUU, UT

I don't believe in your god. I am not a member of your religion. Your rules don't apply to me.

As a tax paying citizen I am free to enter legal contracts with any adult. If gay marriage makes you feel 'icky' then you should quit obsessing about other people 'marital relations'.

Bebyebe
UUU, UT

Serious: fertility is not a requirement for marriage.

Mainly Me
Werribee, 00

Another case of judicial activism at its very worst. This country is in deep trouble.

toosmartforyou
Farmington, UT

well, Bebybe, how do you feel about polygamy?

Ranch
Here, UT

@Mainly Me;

"Judicial activism at its very worst"...

A judge, upholding the State's Constitutional requirement of Equal Protection; Imagine that!

truth in all its forms
henderson, NV

Utah should become the 18th state to support same sex marriage.

Baccus0902
Leesburg, VA

higv
You wrote : "Hopefully good people in New Mexico will vote for an amendment to overturn same gender marriage."

Dear higv,

I sincerely wish you no offense, but, I cannot understand yours and others judgmental position. In your statement above you indicated that "good people" in NM would be against SSM.

We LGBT people have been accused of perversion, depravity,bestiality, and a thousands other maladies. Jerry Falwell and other Christian leaders blamed natural disaster, even 9/11 on us.
Many of you have expressed fear of the destruction of this country because we are slowly getting the same rights that you enjoy. MA, and 16 other states still flourish after legalizing SSM.

We LGBT are members of the police, schools, hospitals, market, churches, etc. etc. most of us are trusted members of society. My heterosexual friends think that I am a "good person", moral, educated, intelligent, a good Christian and I am just one gay man among millions others.

My partner of 31 years and I live a monogamous life, raised a beautiful and bright child who is in college now.

Please explain to me what make us not "good people".

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