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Published: Wednesday, Dec. 18 2013 12:00 a.m. MST

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Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

I would be intered if this guy was or had been taking SRRI medications.

I pray for him, his victims, and their families.

one old man
Ogden, UT

Two shootings in a week that made the news. But what is most disturbing is that both this and the school shooting in Colorado have generated virtually no attention and no outrage.

Have shootings become so routine that they merit little attention unless they involve huge numbers of victims and then only when the victims are children?

Have shootings become such a part of our nightly TV entertainment and our weekend movies that we as a nation have become inured to them? Are the imaginary and ever more graphic shootings we allow into our living rooms virtually every night of the week lulling us into some kind of lazy complacency?

Instead of national outrage, we seem to now have a national yawn. "Ho hum, another shooting. What time is CSI on tonight?"

Disgusting.

And downright frightening.

But exactly what the NRA is hoping will happen.

How many more people must die? Or will it only become real to us when the dead are someone close to us -- like a family member. Is that what it will take?

Eliyahu
Pleasant Grove, UT

I'm with you, One Old Man. Unfortunately, we're rapidly turning into a dystopian society where the extremest fantasy of everyone going armed and being ready to survive by getting the drop on all their neighbors is becoming too real. If all these killings were being done by people armed with machetes, we wouldn't hear arguments that this is why everyone should be carrying a machete. Why should guns be any different?

PP
Eagle Mountain, UT

Well Old Man... both were on the front page of the paper. I guess your theory is destroyed in one sentence. For me the bigger issue is both happened in gun free zones. How could that possibly happen in a gun free zone. No one is allowed to have guns there? I am so confused.

Maybe the NRA is correct when they say gun free zones just create safe havens for killers.

PP
Eagle Mountain, UT

Eliyahu
Pleasant Grove, UT

I'm with you, One Old Man. Unfortunately, we're rapidly turning into a dystopian society where the extremest fantasy of everyone going armed and being ready to survive by getting the drop on all their neighbors is becoming too real.
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AS opposed to the extremist fantasy that making gun free zones will somehow deter a law breaking murderer from carrying his gun into a school or a hospital where he knows there are no guns. Taken to an extreme this is the exact reason Hitler invaded the rest of europe, because all the other leaders were trying to set up pacifistic "gun free zones" They used nasty labels for realists Winston Churchill like "War Monger" but history quickly proved them wrong

Peace is an awesome thing, but in our world peace is impossible without the strength to enforce it. There are bad people our there and if we lay down our arms then we are at their mercy, or lack thereof.

NorthOfHere
Rexburg, ID

One Old Man, you are right about the trash that is being portrayed in media. Constantly viewing violence, revenge, objectifying and murder, all dull a person's ability to think about solutions to problems without resorting to violence.

Sadly, the fact is that no one is going to put a stop to the trash anytime soon.

I guess my extremist fantasy is to have the trash completely removed that pollutes the minds of individuals. Until then, there needs to be a way to protect ourselves. Removing guns from the hands of law abiding citizens is not the solution to protecting ourselves. How many gun crimes have been committed by those lawfully possessing the firearm used to do the deed?

I also think the media does a public disservice by reporting every aspect of the life of the criminals who commit these murders. We don't need to know who they are, we don't need to know why they did it. That only gives motivation for others struggling to be known to get known in this way. Please stop feeding the flame.

Thriller
Saint George, UT

Perhaps the reason we have seen so many shootings, old man, is because of all the attention they receive. Think about it, if you were a suicidal, mentally unstable person who has absolutely no empathy, wouldn't you want to go out in a big way? What bigger way to go out than to get live 24-hour coverage from all the networks about every detail of your life?

The problem isn't guns; that is a glib and extremely oversimplified viewpoint. The problem is certainly a combination of factors. The principle factors, as I see it, are the overabundance of media coverage of the shooters (for the sake of ratings), the desensitization of our youth (as has been mentioned), and the inability to identify and treat the mentally disabled potential shooters.

Also, do you really think the NRA likes seeing shootings covered in the news? Of course not, the NRA wants America to think these kinds of shootings don't happen. So the attention created by these shootings is bad for the NRA.

Brave Sir Robin
San Diego, CA

Ah yes, another incident that will get the gun nuts defensive about some government agent swooping in and taking everybody's guns away. We wouldn't want the fear of some possible dystopian future to distract us from our current dystopian present.

AzPete
Mesa, AZ

Old Man "How many more people must die? Or will it only become real to us when the dead are someone close to us -- like a family member. Is that what it will take?"

Did you forget that the day before this tragedy approximately 90-100 people were killed by automobiles, many of them children. The next day, another 90-100, the day after that, another 90-100, and so on and so on. Every day of the year, 90-100 deaths, yet we remain complacent because "S*** Happens". It has become so routine we just continue on, hoping it doesn't happen again too soon. I have not had one family member killed by gunfire, but I can name 8 that have been killed by automobiles. And by the way, the NRA does not condone firearm deaths any more than the AAA condones automobile deaths.

Eliyahu: Never take a knife to a gunfight! By the way, do you have insurance on your house? Are you expecting a disaster? Do you have a fire extinguisher in your kitchen and garage? Are you expecting a fire? I am not expecting trouble; I pray nothing ever happens, but I train and carry so I am prepared just in case.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: ". . . exactly what the NRA is hoping will happen. How many more people must die?"

Yeah, it's the NRA's fault that this gunman took Vice-President Biden's advice and got a shotgun. Or that he couldn't get the help he so obviously needed because the liberal/socialist ACLU would sue the pants off anyone that tried to force treatment on him. Or that the medical center opted not to have armed security at its entrance because liberal, anti-gun people like "one old man" would pretend to be offended.

It's also conservatives' fault that teens play violent video games. Or that this regime can't get its act together and sell Obamacare. Or that the cost of everything has gone through the roof because of liberal environmental overreach and overregulation.

What's actually disturbing is that liberals have created all this hate, discontent, and chaos, yet they get away with blaming it all on conservatives.

Mark B
Eureka, CA

I'd like to see research comparing gun violence in "gun free zones", as the NRA likes to call schools, hospitals, churches, theaters, etc. to "guns welcome zones", which would be everywhere that's NOT "gun free". My guess? I'd rather be in a gun free zone if safety is my goal.

Eliyahu
Pleasant Grove, UT

@ procuradorfiscal

You may think that having armed guards or police at the entrance of every school, hospital, shopping mall, theater, and other public building is a solution. Most of us would prefer that we not turn our country into an armed enclave with massive police departments watching us at all times. I don't see the idea of sending our children to school in armored buses, dropping them off at schools with hardened perimeters manned by soldiers/cops, with the sort of security we use in prisons, as either a solution or as an environment conducive to good learning.

one old man
Ogden, UT

The amount of simple minded acceptance of the NRA's propaganda in comments here is astounding.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "Most of us would prefer that we not turn our country into an armed enclave . . . ."

Sure we would. But, when the only real alternative is this kind of violence, it's not a hard choice.

And, please note that disarming everyone is NOT a real alternative. Any disarmament scam would be roundly vetoed by the bad guys, and would result ONLY in disarming the good guys.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

The present situation is not working. Adding more guns and more freedom, in my opinion, will make things worse. We need to set a new attitude towards guns; that attitude will have to be that not everything goes. It's a societal, paradigm shift. It will have to be made real with some real time restrictions. We have to acknowledge that, when it comes to guns, the dystopic future we fear is just an extension of the dystopic present we're experiencing unless we do something different.

Mark B
Eureka, CA

Take a deep breath and relax, Mr. proc. No one is coming for your guns, and you can use the same posts the next time there's a shooting of some kind. But it is OK in the meantime to lock the guns up, right?

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