@Open Minded MormonOut sourcing and hiring foreigners is a
different issue from the invented and irrelevant covetous-based issue of wage
disparity,and I think generally every one on the right would agree
something needs to be done about out sourcing and hiring foreigners. So what are your democrat reps. and senators doing about it?
To "Open Minded Mormon" bot those are not examples of socialism. Those
are examples of the United Order, which is NOT socialism.Here are
some quotes and scriptures explaining why:D&C 134:2 "We
believe that no government can exist in peace, except such laws are framed and
held inviolate as will secure to each individual the free exercise of
conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life."
Under Socialism, you lose the right and control of property as individuals as it
becomes controlled by the state.April 1966 Elder Marrion G Romney
gave a talk titled "Is Socialism the United Order". In that talk he
states clearly that Socialism is not the United Order.Heber J. Grant
stated "… Communism and all other similar isms bear no relationship
whatever to the United Order. They are merely the clumsy counterfeits which
Satan always devises of the gospel plan… Latter-day Saints cannot be true
to their faith and lend aid, encouragement, or sympathy to any of these false
philosophies. They will prove snares to their feet."Prophets and
the scriptures show that the United Order is not Socialism or Communism. Do you
know something the Prophets don't?
@Chris BSalt Lake City, UTNo, it is not my responsibility to
improve your skills. That is your responsibility. 2:37 p.m. Dec. 17,
2013[FYI --- I am an Aerospace Engineer. I hold 2 Bachelor's
Degrees - one in Mechanical Engineering, the other in Manufacturing Engineering.
My wages have gone consistanly down due to out-sourcing by Capitialists in
America to the Communists in China over the last 25 years.I suppose
could either move and help the Chinese, of I could change careers, but in
either case -- who do you expect to be designing and building our Air
Force fleet -- communists in China?]=======Redshirt1701Deep Space 9, UtFinally, if socialism is so
great, tell us where pure socialism has worked in the long run?2:40 p.m.
Dec. 17, 2013[Crimeny - here we go...again! You want examples
-- you a Mormon? Try -- the City of Enoch, 200+ years with the
Nephites/Lamanites after Christ, Families, the Celestial Kingdom...]
Hey liberals!How's that free trade agreements working out?
Just to set the record straight, in 1973 I was making $3.00 an hour and happy
and paying rent and eating and having kids, now I Work for $300. 00 per day.
There is certainly a bigger wage difference than 5%. This is the problem with
liberals, they just make things up.Isn't it funny that the hero of
the left, Barack Obama, who before being president never really worked a lot is
now a multi- millionaire while at the same time complaining about the rich. And
now it is off to Hawaii one more time on someone else's dime. Oh how would
it be.Why are the rich richer? Just look at the founder of Facebook, one
day nothing and now a billionaire. That happens frequently.
This is reality folks.* People are paid for what they are worth to
an employer.* Do you think a good car salesman would be under paid
if he sold alot of cars?* A good dentist, or doctor is worth every
penny they earn.* Payton Manning increases cash flow for the Denver
Broncos, and is worth the money he earns.* Burger flippers are
Just need to wait for another fifty years for the trickle down.
@ Christopher B - Ogden, UT - "I am ashamed when lazy and jealous people
blame the rich for the income gap. It's my responsibility to improve my
skills such that I will be in higher demand in merit more pay, not Mitt's
responsibility."Chris B, you and I will most likely forever lock
horns over BYU and Utah, and often times over viewpoints of the LDS church, but
with your 3 comments at the top of this comment board, you are forever my
friend.You, Sir, clearly understand the truth of responsibility and
Robin, "It's intellectually dishonest" Ya,
well, if liberals couldn't use that kind of reasoning, what else would they
To "marxist" you are wrong. It is Socialism that is destroying
capitalism. Just look up the many news articles about how under Obama the
income gap has increased.Socialism is a parasite on capitalism, and
will kill capitalism if unchecked. Just look at Portugal, Greece, and Spain.
The socialist policies there have killed their economies.Since
Europe is more socialist than the US, lets see what is going on there. Read
"Gloom, anger spreads as European economies teeter" in the DN. Now ask
yourself, why is it that they are teetering long before the US, if capitalism is
the problem? If Socialism is the savior, then shouldn't they be doing
better than the US?Finally, if socialism is so great, tell us where
pure socialism has worked in the long run? Capitalism has a centuries old
record of lifting people out of poverty and improving the world. What is
Socialism's record? (I will give you a hint, it isn't good.)
airnuat,No, it is not my responsibility to improve your skills.
That is your responsibility. And I haven't seen concern about
others taking jobs when it comes to illegal immigrants? Its ok for an illegal
immigrant to take a job from an American but a Chinese person can't?Flip, flop, flip, flop
Christopher BOgden, UTI am ashamed when lazy and jealous people
blame the rich for the income gap. It's my responsibility to
improve my skills such that I will be in higher demand in merit more pay, not
Mitt's responsibility.11:38 a.m. Dec. 17, 2013======== ANDI am ashamed when lazy and jealous people
blame the POOR for their income gap. It's also your
responsibility to improve my skills such that I will be in higher demand in
merit more pay, so Mitt CAN'T send your jobs to Communist China.Because if they can, believe me -- they will.
BO's trickle-up poverty is working.Why the photo of the person
obviously NOT in the labor force when the article supposes to talk about income
gaps? Compare the homeless in the window with my 12 year old neighbor who mows
lawns in the summer, and the 12 year old has MUCH higher income. I suppose the
liberals would want to tak from him to give to the hobo to even out the income
gap.Springstreet,If BO's policies had not extended a weak
economy, those workers at Caterpillar and elsewhere would have more choices to
go somewhere else and the company would be forced to increase wages to keep
them. Caterpillar's management has a greater responsibility to their
shareholders than to their employees.I recently walked into a
McDonalds in San Francisco where the minimum wage is out of line with the value
of the labor provided. I saw the prices on the menu and walked out – I
knew where I could get better food at a similar price. Artificial intervention
in the market can have dire effects, just like barney frank forcing fannie and
Freddie to buy junk mortgages took down the banking industry and our economy.
Jobs are not created by the rich, they're created by customers.
Businessowners don't hire people just because they can, they hire people
because there's a need. Wealth inequality stifles the purchasing power of
the lower and middle classes. When that happens demand falls and the economy
gets or stays weak. The problem with the slow growth in the economy right now is
on the demand side of the equation. Doing things like cutting off unemployment
benefits or food stamps isn't going to help things, it's just going to
make things worse by further putting downward pressure on purchasing
@spring streetDo you know why worker productivity grew 80% over 40
years? Because of the invention of the personal computer. It's
intellectually dishonest to imply that the average worker became 80%
better/faster at their job while only getting 5% more money. The truth is, it
was someone else's work that made us all more productive in our jobs.
Workers don't deserve 80% more money because they didn't make the 80%
improvement - the folks who developed the PC deserve it.And you know
what? They got it. The PC industry now has millions of highly-paid workers.
So at the end of the day, capitalism rewarded the right people.Another beautiful thing about capitalism: If a worker at Caterpillar is tired
of having his wages frozen while the company makes record profits, he is welcome
to take a job at any of the other tractor companies where wages aren't
frozen. If he's a good worker for Caterpillar, the competition would
welcome him with open arms. Or he's welcome to start his own tractor
manufacturing company and pay himself (and his employees) whatever he wants.
Capitalism is strangling itself like Marx predicted - the distribution of wealth
grows ever more top heavy. The problem for the system is that it still needs
little people, but American capital doesn't think it does. They are due
for a shock just like the rest of us.
spring street - Its a free country, employees are not forced to continue to work
for a company that underpays them. If an employee's skills and
contributions are worth more than he/she is getting paid, they should go find a
company that will pay them what they are worth. Surely John Deere
would love to hire a an employee from Caterpillar who is currently making
Caterpillar a very profitable company and if that employee has the skills to
make John Deere very profitable then John Deere will certainly be willing to pay
said employee more money than he/she is currently making at CaterpillarI own a small business and if I know there is a person who will make my
company more profitable, I'll absolutely hire someone and pay them enough
to make them leave their current employer. If I didn't do such
a thing I'd be turning my backs on my OWN profits. And if such thing is
not happening, perhaps the employees are not as valuable or don't bring
quite the skill set they think they have.
@ Christopher B: From 1973 to 2011, worker productivity grew by 80% - while
worker pay grew by less than 5%. This means people are working harder and doing
more for their money but not getting paid more. You can do whatever you want to
make yourself more valuable to your employer - but chances are you will not get
paid for that additional effort.Caterpillar, for example, had record
profits last year but has put six-year wage freeze on the blue collar workers
who actually make the products Caterpillar sells for its record profits.This is happening in many companies - record profits, lower pay - unless
you happen to be one of the top people making more than 300x the average worker
- even though your direct productivity has not increased as much as the
productivity as those whose wages are stagnant.The American worker
does not want money to which they are not entitled - they merely want to be paid
fairly for the work they do.And, as the article points out, this
would be good for the wealthy as well as it will increase demand for the
products their companies sell thereby ensuring they stay in business and
continue to make money.
Well, both groups could change this:The rich group could stop
working hard, investing their time and money, and stop creating value which adds
to their pocketbook(and creates millions of jobs)andThe
poor group could take more responsibility for themselves, get more education,
work harder, work smarter, and be more fiscally responsible.Tough to
hear?Ya well, deal with it.
Barack and liberals would be happier with everyone in the nation struggling if
that meant the income gap were smaller
I am ashamed when lazy and jealous people blame the rich for the income gap.
It's my responsibility to improve my skills such that I will be
in higher demand in merit more pay, not Mitt's responsibility.