Comments about ‘Supreme Court will take up new health law dispute’

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Published: Tuesday, Nov. 26 2013 3:46 p.m. MST

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Counter Intelligence
Salt Lake City, UT

It is fascinating how politically correct bullies who claim to be traumatized by public religious speech (which requires no more emotional effort than mere tolerance of a different opinion) suddenly do not see a problem forcing someone to violate their conscience or pay for things that violate their religion.

It is fascinating that those who claim to be all about freedom of speech suddenly claim that businesses have NO right to freedom of speech or religion (but unions and associations do)

It is fascinating how some people claim to be victims when others do not pay for their free stuff and they cannot seem to comprehend they are actually perpetrators for forcing others, against their will, to do things that they can do themselves.

The HHS mandate is the epitome of politically correct bullying and hypocrisy

Northern
Logan, UT

@counter

Well said!!

BrentBot
Salt Lake City, UT

The 40 companies not just object to birth control. They object to providing abortificants such as the "morning after" pill, which is contravention to the Hyde amendment. The Hyde amendment prohibits public funding of abortion.

spring street
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

@CI
I am not interested in yet another day of debating your victimhood but I will remind you of an old saying, you cannot take the effect and make it the cause.

I do think it is very appropriate for the supreme court to take up this issue because of the conflicting lower court rulings and the question of constitutionality.

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

Since the law – which simply mandates that insurance, part of all employee’s paid compensation, cover things people want (i.e., no employer is directly purchasing anything) – is a generally applicable law that does not in any way target religious people, all prior precedents (including Employment Division v Smith) suggest Hobby Lobby et al should lose their case in a 9-0 decision.

That said, given the fact that Scalia likely favors Hobby Lobby’s position for purely political/religious reasons, it will be interesting to watch the contortions & mental gymnastics he will perform to twist the law (including doing a complete 180 on his opinion in the above mentioned case) into the outcome he wants.
Roberts and Kennedy will likely decide the outcome…

Stalwart Sentinel
San Jose, CA

Counter Intelligence -

For-profit companies do not have a will, they do not have a religion, and they do not have a conscience. But, you seem so sure of yourself, so I bet you can prove to me where the laws of the United States grant corporations a will, conscience, and religion. Please, show me where those corporate rights exist under statutory or case law. I'll wait.

I'm sorry but the owners of the companies are not special, they do not have a legally-recognized right to exert their personal morality through their company. It's time for Christian exceptionalism to come to an end in the United States.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

#1 Morning after pills are not considered or classified by scientists as abortifacients because they prevent ovulation and fertilization.

#2 There is no evidence to date that Ella or Plan B prevent implantation of a fertilized egg. When taken after ovulation, pregnancy occured at the same rate as women who had not taken the morning after pills.

#3 The Catholic Health Assoc.: “HHS has now established an accommodation that will allow our ministries to continue offering health-insurance plans for their employees as they have always done,” read the opening statement accompanying the trade group’s “memorandum,” which explains how the final rules would work.
“We are pleased that our members now have an accommodation that will not require them to contract, provide, pay or refer for contraceptives."

bandersen
Saint George, UT

another reason to come join the crowd that believes in Liberty. Get the Federal government out of everything from defining marriage to providing health care to the "do-gooders" seeking validation through government action. Liberty is a wonderful feeling when defined by yourself, not a government bureaucrat or an elected leader. How frustrating it must be for those who continue to seek a Utopia through government fiat. Come join the ranks of those who understand liberty and live it without the chains of government decree. How empty it must feel to never be able to move forward in life without a government officer telling you what to do or a handbook of instructions(Printed, of course, by the government).

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

If you use religion to force action upon others, you do not advocate freedom.

You advocate a theocracy.

What will happen then, when someone else's religious beliefs, conflict then, with your own?

We already have examples of this in Human history.

The Crusades, Jihads, Oaklahoma Bombing, 9/11.

And the murder of doctors in churches.

'George Tiller Killed: Abortion Doctor Shot At Church' - Huffington Post - 05/31/09

Jim Cobabe
Provo, UT

How strong a parallel between the horrors of the bombs or the abortions which destroy human life. What difference if death is delivered by high-tech drones or high-tech pills? The devastation is the same. While a few hundred are slaughtered by bombs, or a few thousand die from tropical storms, countless millions of unborn babies are murdered and unceremoniously discarded in dumpsters.

LEDSFW
Las Vegas, NV

OBAMACARE Regulations might strip AFLEC of its ability to provide a variety of supplemental coverages. Liberals may regulate them away. But if AFLEC survives, it could continue to provide a variety of individual supplemental insurances including a policy to cover women's reproductive health issues (including child-murder, I mean abortion). If that was provided and allowed in the regulations (not sure AFLEC would want to provide such a policy), then an enterprising company could offer the product to employees/individuals without employer subsidy as part of people's HSA or 125(a) programs or simply as a separate individual coverage available on-line. It would have to exclude pre-existing pregnancies from termination of life coverage of course. The point is, the Supreme Court should find OBAMACARE a 13th Amendment violation. Nevertheless, the private sector could fill the (sad-to-say) need and want without forcing an employer mandate; thus relieving responsible companies like Hobby Lobby to continue to control its OWN business destiny. The patrons of Hobby Lobby who purchase goods and services nor Hobby Lobby's Management's should be held by Marxists as responsible to pay for irresponsible women to terminate an innocent human life against conscience.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

If you guys want birth control pills, pay for them yourselves! Stop trying to force other people to be responsible for your body and what you choose to put into it or do with it!

Vanceone
Provo, UT

So, liberals want to force businesses to violate their owners consciences. Let's say the Supremes agree: that Hobby Lobby has to pay to let women murder their children. Then Hobby Lobby will likely drop all health insurance for their employees. What then, liberals? Force Hobby Lobby to offer health insurance if they want to stay in business?

Why not--I mean, you fascists are all gung ho about forcing Americans to pay the government a yearly tax merely for the privilege of existing. After all, that is what America is all about--if you breathe, you pay Obama his fine or else! George and Tom would be so proud that at last their vision of an America run by a government that demands you pay money to them for the privilege of breathing has finally come to pass! It's what we fought the King for, right?

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

@bandersen – “Get the Federal government out of everything from defining marriage…”

Glad to know you’re against DOMA and in favor of letting States decide for themselves whether or not to sanction same-sex marriages… I wouldn’t have guessed.

@Jim Cobabe – “countless millions of unborn babies are murdered and unceremoniously discarded in dumpsters.”

And what exactly does that have to do with an insurance mandate meant to cover birth control and things like the Plan B (so-called Morning After) pill?

Even granting that Plan B terminates a fertilized egg (the science suggests otherwise), is it your contention that a fertilized egg is the same as a baby?

Keep in mind this egg (even at 3 days old) is so small that if placed in your hand you would not be able to see it without a microscope. Needless to say it has no organs, blood, bones or human features of any kind.

Just something to think about before you start tossing out gruesome & evocative statements like the one above…

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

Bottom line, their body.

Not yours.

When you believe that your moral platitudes can dictate another human beings body…

well, we have 100,000 people in America who need an organ transplant.

Right now.

Put your kidney where your mouth is.

Granny
Saint George, UT

As a 60+ woman too young for Medicare, imagine my frustration that I am required to pay for MATERNITY CARE AND forced to sign up for PEDIATRIC DENTAL CARE in order for my insurance policy to be compliant and avoid a penalty. I CHOSE not to sign up for my own dental plan because it didn't make financial sense in my case, but I am FORCED to pay for some other people's children dental care.

Can I say IMPEACH loudly enough?! Not only are the Democratic sheep following their shepherd over the cliff...they have tied us all to them and we are at the edge.

RedWings
CLEARFIELD, UT

Stalwart Sentinel - But the courts have already said that "corporations are people" in the political sphere. What makes the religious sphere different?

A business owner has the right to operate his or her business. If employees want these types of contraceptives, go work where they are offered. If these companies cannot attract employees becasue of their policies, then they will need to adjust or go out of business. This is called freedom of choice and it used to be a desirable thing in out country.

Today, there is still a choice as long as a person's choice happens to agree with the far left. If it does not, then the person is a bigot and not deserving of freedom....

dan76
san antonio, TX

To Granny;

From your monicker, one must assume you've had children and subsequently grandchildren. Why then were childless members of society required to pay school district taxes to support your kin's education?

ConservativeCommonTater
West Valley City, UT

"The 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled against the company on its claims under the 1993 law and the Constitution, saying "for profit, secular corporations cannot engage in religious exercise."

This sounds like a rational and non-sectarian decision. Churches and religions that are in the business of business should not be allowed multitudes of different laws pertaining to their particular beliefs. Business has one set of standards, religions have others.

Would this or any other business be able to tell their employees how they could spend their paychecks? Health coverage is a benefit, as is the paycheck. They should not dictate how an employee uses benefits or pay.

Ranch
Here, UT

@CI & Moutanman;

It isn't "free stuff" when the employee PAYS the premiums.

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