Comments about ‘Hawaii governor to sign state's gay marriage bill’

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Published: Wednesday, Nov. 13 2013 12:00 a.m. MST

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Ranch
Here, UT

"Sen. Sam Slom, the chamber's only Republican, said the government should stay out of legislating marriage.

"People have differences, and you can't legislate morality. You can try, but you can't do it," Slom said before voting against the bill."

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I'm confused. How is preventing gays from marrying "not legislating marriage"?

wendell
provo, UT

This is a wonderful day for the people of Hawaii, and for all Americans. Equality for all is quickly spreading across this great country and I could not be happier. One day, before too much longer, marriage equality will be the law of the land, even in Utah. Thanks to our Father in Heaven for answering the prayers of millions of Americans who support this wonderful movement. My Husband and I look forward to the inevitability of full recognition of our marriage, even here in Utah. Much thanks to the people of Hawaii. Illinois is next. The tide of equality is rolling forth across America.

Contrariusier
mid-state, TN

The journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step.

We've made quite a few of those steps already, but the journey isn't over yet.

I'm thinkin' New Mexico next? I can't wait to see what their Supreme Court decides.

mcdugall
Murray, UT

"Sen. Sam Slom, the chamber's only Republican, said the government should stay out of legislating marriage." - I think Mr. Slom is confused. Most states currently legislate who can marry, by age and gender. Removing a gender qualifier the government is actually removing a legislative barrier to marriage.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

16 states, in just 10 years.

This November, I would ask how many the millions of dollars donated against gay marriage…

could have fed this Thanksgiving?

Bob A. Bohey
Marlborough, MA

Yes!! They're falling like dominos. Which state will be next? Step right up and take your place in the 21st century.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

With 16 new states allow marriage equality, lets look at the 'harm' that anti-gay marriage advocates claim…

'After 5 Years of Legal Gay Marriage, Massachusetts still has the lowest state divorce rate...' - Bruce Wilson - AlterNet - 08/24/09

Line:
'Massachusetts retains the national title as the lowest divorce rate state, and the MA divorce rate is about where the US divorce rate was in 1940, prior to the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor.'

From the National Center For Vital Statistics

Heck, let's go 10 years…

'TEN YEARS later, 85 Percent of Massachusetts voters say NO HARM from Marriage Equality' – 09/27/13

'But marriage equality has not turned society inside out, nor has the promised parade of horribles has not come to pass. Massachusetts now has the lowest divorce rate in the nation, same-sex families now enjoy full legal protections…'

In Hawaii, Aloha means hello AND goodbye.

So 'Aloha' to life-long monogamy for gay couples in Hawaii. Good on ya!

And also 'Aloha' to discrimination.

Shelama
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

Good!

Everyone knows same-sex marriage is coming to Utah, as it is to all states, with full Constitutional protection.

Same-sex marriage, like homosexuality itself, is not even a moral issue. Unless something has negative secular consequences, it's not a moral issue. If the ONLY consequences of an act are within your church, or in a Heaven or Hell in some future afterlife, it's not a moral issue. They may be religious issues, but they're not truly moral issues.

From a certain more fundamentaloid Christian outlook, it seems the worst that an angry God can do is send the grim, apocalyptic end. But that's the end-game anyway. Perhaps He could always send pre-apocalyptic storms, floods, volcanoes, droughts, earthquakes, wars & rumors of wars, but how would that be different from the last thousands or millions of years? (Maybe AGW is His plan?)

If you believe same-sex marriage is wrong, don't enter into one.

Last G.C., the Moron church pretty much announced they knew and accepted that same-sex marriage was coming and, also, that it would lead to certain, automatic excommunication. Their free, religious choice.

Tators
Hyrum, UT

@ wendell:

It's ironic that you say thanks be to God for answering prayers in this case. But the reality is that God has made it abundantly clear in the Bible what his feelings are toward homosexuality. And it's not pretty. He also specifically defines marriage as being only between a man and a woman... and nothing else.
The part about loving your neighbor doesn't override those things. God always loves all of His children while at the same time either condoning or condemning their specific actions. This one He condemns.

By the way, God doesn't make decisions based on what is politically correct at any given time... the way man does. Mankind has a way of swaying back and forth by whatever political winds are strongest at the time, while being too weak to maintain any moral absolutes.

Please don't rebuke me for expressing my opinion. I'm as much entitled to mine as you are yours. And no matter what anyone else does say, I will continue putting my trust in the Word of God, rather than the opinions of man. It's the best way to go.

spring street
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

@tators

In my experience there is really no more morally relativistic man then the one that proclaims God is on his side when it comes to politics.

Tators
Hyrum, UT

@ Shelama:

Calling the Mormon church "the Moron church" shows your personal ignorance and bias... and displays in you same things you are supposedly ranting against.

Name calling is a quick way of losing any credibility. And you just lost a lot of yours. Come back when you've matured enough to show respect to other people's religions... even to those you don't personally agree with.

Phranc
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

@tators

can you please sight for us the chapter and verse were God says "marriage as being only between a man and a woman... and nothing else?" I would also like to know how you resolve your sweeping judgments of those that disagree with you with the commandments that states that judgment is only in the hands god. "Judge not yet ye be judged." How do you resolve the early actions of LDS leaders with the supposed fact that good clearly indicated that marriage is between a man and a women? clearly the interpretation of that statement has changed over time within the LDS church.

Contrariusier
mid-state, TN

@Tators --

"God has made it abundantly clear in the Bible what his feelings are toward homosexuality. "

Not really.

1. Old Testament laws were replaced by the New Covenant.

2. Jesus never said a single word against homosexuality.

3. Homosexuality isn't mentioned anywhere in the Gospels, except for one passage in which Jesus acknowledges -- WITHOUT condemnation -- that some men are "born eunuchs" (in ancient texts, the term "eunuch" included homosexuals) and that such men should not marry women. (Matthew 19:12)

4. Paul didn't like homosexuals. Paul also supported slavery, believed that women were inferior to men, told everyone that nobody should ever get divorced, and claimed that it was better to remain single than to marry. He was a mortal, fallible man. Paul was the ONLY person in the New Testament who spoke against homosexuality.

5. Many religious people -- including Christians, Jews, and members of other faiths -- support gay rights. They have no trouble reconciling the text of the Bible with the full citizenship of gay people.

6. Many Christian denominations are already happy to perform gay marriages.

6. Even if God DOES consider homosexuality a sin, it isn't our job to judge. Judging is GOD'S job.

Shelama
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

@ Tators, actually, that was an honest typo, my mistake, sorry. I'm a little surprised the Deseret News moderator/censors let it through since it could certainly be construed as worse than just disrespectful 'name-calling.'

I don't consider Mormons to be morons at all, either individually or as a church. Wrong, but not moronic.

Meanwhile, you & I can both rejoice in knowing that, to the degree that marriage and family is the foundation of society, that same-sex marriage will add to and strengthen that foundation.

Tators, Mormons believe God is a male, married, heterosexual. I look around at the cosmos, and at all of human history, including religious history and the "scriptures" of the world, and I don't see anything inconsistent with God being a female, homosexual, manic-depressive with multiple personality disorder and an imp of perverse. And who is in favor of same-sex marriage in all of Her various states of mind including when She's feeling normal. I don't even find any evidence against this.

So I see Hawaii, and the coming of same-sex marriage to Utah, as in accordance with Her desires.

wendell
provo, UT

@ Tators
"Please don't rebuke me for expressing my opinion. I'm as much entitled to mine as you are yours. And no matter what anyone else does say, I will continue putting my trust in the Word of God, rather than the opinions of man. It's the best way to go"

I do not rebuke people for disagreeing with me, and I am certainly not going to in this case. The fact that we can disagree on matters such as this is one more reason this is a great country. With that in mind, I will tell you that I am absolutely certain God loves me and has answered the prayers offered by myself and many other God-fearing people. God made me the way I am, and I am so grateful that he did. I spent nearly 40 years being told what an awful person I was, and hating myself for my sexuality. It's such a wonderful thing to know that God loves me exactly the way that I am. You do not have to agree, but luckily we can all have our own beliefs and opinions and still be good to one another.

Tators
Hyrum, UT

@ spring street:

That simply indicates that your experience is very limited.

@ phranc:

Can you show me one exception in the Bible of marriage being between any others besides a man and a woman... chapter and verse? The first marriage ordained of God was between Adam and Eve in setting His precedence for marriage. I can't find anywhere in the Bible when that ever changed.

I'm not making sweeping judgements anymore than you are. Like you, I'm simply expressing my opinion. When that opinion is different from yours, that doesn't automatically make it a judgement.

@ Contrariusier:

Paul wrote a large section of the New Testament. Are you going to disavow everything he said just because he specifically spoke against homosexuality? Not a good thing to pick and choose.

Contrary to what you said, the New Testament didn't automatically override everything said in the Old Testament. For example, all Judeo-Christian churches still adhere to The 10 Commandments given by Moses.

For Biblical reference:
Old Testament: See Leviticus 20:13 and 18:22
New Testament: See Roman 1:26-27

These are the scriptures concerning homosexuality in the Bible and are very clear.

Tators
Hyrum, UT

@ Contrariusier and phranc:

Following the commandments of God isn't a matter of "judging others" in this case, as you are contending. It's about making a choice to follow Him. He expects and wants us to take a stand in following Him... regardless of worldly pressures to the contrary.

Believe it or not, you are actually judging others every time you choose who will be your friends and who you are going to hang out with. You are judging others when you choose a spouse from among all those you've dated. It also seems very much like you are judging me for having a difference in beliefs and opinion to your own.

Many people use the "do not judge" commandment totally out of context... just like you're doing.

phranc... why do you assume I'm lds?. I've referenced the Bible and nothing else.

Picking and choosing whichever scriptures suits your personal agenda is being a luke-warm follower. Doing so is no more than a self-justification and rationalization and for that personal agenda.

Please don't condemn me for following the Bible in the way it reads to me and personally feels right.

Shelama
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

As far as the Bible being the word of a god and an authority on homosexuality or marriage, is there anybody, please, who can provide any good evidence that the Bible is not purely a human invention? That there must have been a god involved?

I read the Bible over and over (I find it very interesting and the challenges & puzzles it presents to be fascinating). I started back when I was still a believing Mormon (a believer ever since mommy first told me when I was 2-3 years old up until I was maybe 35-y.o.)

Now, as I still continue to read and study the Bible, it screams and screams louder that it's purely human (and hugely interesting).

BYU-Neal Maxwell and FAIR do tons of Mormon-specific apologetics but they seem to just credulously accept the Bible as the word of a god, the only thing to do is "translate" and interpret it correctly. Why? What argues for its divinity?

Not even anybody on mormonscholarstestify dot org seems to question the Bible as divine or to question how to interpret common, routine, garden-variety religious/spiritual experiences.

Welcome, same-sex marriage, even to Utah!

Contrariusier
mid-state, TN

@Tators --

"The first marriage..."

Of course. As I already mentioned, they didn't have any reproductive technologies or even adoption back then.

Progress is a wonderful thing.

""Are you going to disavow everything he said..."

Nope, I'm going to take everything he says with several grains of salt because he said a lot of things that society doesn't agree with any more -- like slavery, the inferiority of women, and so on.

"Not a good thing to pick and choose."

Do you believe, as Paul did, that it's better to remain single than to marry? If not, then you are picking and choosing.

"The 10 Commandments... "

The lessons of the ten commandments are repeated in the New Testament. The condemnation of homosexuality is not (apart from Paul, as I've already discussed).

"Roman 1:26-27"

Paul, of course. ;-)

"These are the scriptures concerning homosexuality in the Bible and are very clear."

Paul is very clear about the superiority of singleness to marriage, too. Do you agree with him?

"It's about making a choice to follow Him."

You are welcome to follow him. You are NOT welcome to try to force others to follow your personal vision of him.

Phranc
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

@tators
"Please don't condemn me for following the Bible in the way it reads to me and personally feels right." I would have no problem with that other then that is exactly what you are doing when you use your reading of the bible to justify preventing gay people to marry, it is unreasonable to use your religion as an argument to support such a stance then insist that other not challenge your religion.

"Pcking and choosing whichever scriptures suits your personal agenda is being a luke-warm follower. Doing so is no more than a self-justification and rationalization and for that personal agenda." Did you not judge pick and choose when you ignored the commandment to not judge others? Are you not also know attacking others reading of the bible?

Maybe it would be best if we all followed our on personal beliefs and let others do the same. You don't want to engage in Gay marriage then don't have one and don't go to one, your churches are already protected from preforming them, live and let live.

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