Scott, we gave up reason long ago. I, for one, would find it VERY reasonable to
sit down at a restaurant and buy myself a drink without buying food. I would
also find it reasonable to not see people commuting in monster trucks. While we
are at it, it would be quite reasonable to stop gerrymandering congressional
districts until we split up the biggest cities into a ton of districts to negate
the votes there. It would be reasonable to expect the Republicans of Utah to be
at least a LITTLE upset that their attorney general is selling
"justice". Join with me Scott, in praying that we one day get the DABC
off our backs and that 8 miles per gallon may turn a good way toward a
reasonable 12 miles per gallon. Happy trucking!
Roland KayserCottonwood Heights, UTRe: "Voter ID laws
would make sense if vote fraud were a problem"...Since your
first comment on this subject significant evidence that voter fraud happens and
IS a problem has been presented. Do you want to update your initial assumption
that it's not a problem?Since there is DOCUMENTED evidence that
voter fraud really IS a problem, and that voter fraud has been prosecuted and
convictions handed down by the courts (that means there was evidence for the
judge or the jury)... WHY would you want to make it even EASIER for voter fraud
to occur?Why would you want to COVER for people who would tend to be
involved in voter fraud??Showing your ID is not a big hardship.
Getting ID is not a huge hardship. I don't care how much money you have
or don't have... you CAN get a government ID. What does it cost to get a
SS#??I don't know WHY Democrats would want people to be able to
vote and not prove they are who they say they are (a registered voter)...
This pretense that Republicans are all about suppressing the vote is just
complete Democrat partisan bunk. Republicans work just as hard as
Democrats do to get out the vote. They just don't register as many dead
people, none existent people, etc, as Democrat surrogates like ACORN and others
I still don't understand why this is an issue, who doesn't have ID?
Everything we do requires it, it is not a big deal to have it so why the big
deal.Me thinks we complain just to complain.
I am trying to figure out how voter id laws are any problem, even for the
poor?The poor still need a valid id to do the following:Buy alcoholBuy tobaccoGet a jobCash a checkGet
government welfareFly on an airplane (yes some poor people do this on
occasion)Get a driver's licenseRent an apartmentDid
I mention that you have to have valid ID to get a job.With
everything that requires an ID just to live, how is it that these poor people
can't get ID, since they cannot get a job without proper ID?
Re:Utah_1I can't remember the last time I cashed a check. It
has been easily 30+ yrs. When/if I get checks, i take a deposit slip and go to
the nearest bank where my account is. They never ask me for picture ID. My
paycheck is direct deposited into my account. I use cash, debit or credit cards
for all my purchases. I never get asked for picture ID unless I am traveling
through an airport. Additionally, what constitutes an acceptable
ID? If a student has registered to vote, and their name is on the voter roll,
why shouldn't a student ID suffice? Why shouldn't a govt-issue Vet
card suffice? Why shouldn't any picture ID and a utility bill suffice?
There are many disabled people under the age of 80 who don't drive. Voter supression has been a strategy employed for many, many years by
the Republican Party. Karl Rove reignited this tactic during the Bush years and
it continues today.
If you look at the stats from SLco in 2012, there were a number of ballots that
were either duplicate or didn't meet the law. We have a good system. People
need ID to cash a check. Having ID to vote is OK. Perhaps we allow expired DL
for people over 80. Almost everyone else can get something currently listed.
re:SLars"The Florida New Majority Education Fund, Democratic Party of
Florida and the National Council of La Raza are currently under investigation
for alleged voter registration fraud""a top elections
official announced that the Florida Division of Elections was investigating a
second group, the National Council of La Raza, the largest Hispanic civil rights
organization in the United States, for turning in THREE questionable
registration forms in Miami-Dade County. But there have been far more problems
with the Republican Party of Florida forms, which have mostly been filled out by
Strategic Allied Consulting. Florida Division of Elections launched a criminal
investigation into voter applications filed by Strategic Allied Consulting, a
private firm hired by the Republican Party of Florida to register voters.
Hundreds of questionable registration forms have been found in a dozen counties,
spanning from South Florida to the Panhandle." (MiamiHerald 2012)
It might hard for people in Utah to understand the motive behind the new voter
ID laws being pushed in some states because there is no way such efforts would
change the outcome in Utah. In many states however, Republicans understand the
more people who vote in any election the less chance the Republicans have of
winning. Voter suppression is an ugly, obvious,and corrupt effort to win what
can't be won when every eligible voter is allowed to vote.
To date, 46 states have prosecuted or convicted cases of voter fraud.• More than 24 million voter registrations are invalid, yet remain on
the rolls nation-wide.• There are over 1.8 million dead voters still
eligible on the rolls across the country.• More than 2.75 million
Americans are registered to vote in more than one state.• True The
Vote recently found 99 cases of potential felony interstate voter fraud.• Maryland affiliates of True The Vote uncovered cases of people
registering and voting after their respective deaths.• This year,
True The Vote uncovered more than 348,000 dead people on the rolls in 27 states.
◦ California: 49,000◦ Florida: 30,000◦ Texas:
28,500◦ Michigan: 25,000◦ Illinois: 24,000•12 Indiana counties have more registered voters than residents.• Federal records showed 160 counties in 19 states have over 100 percent
voter registration.• The Florida New Majority Education Fund,
Democratic Party of Florida and the National Council of La Raza are currently
under investigation for alleged voter registration fraud
"Five years after the Bush administration began a crackdown on voter fraud,
the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized
effort to skew federal elections, according to court records and interviews. Although Republican activists have repeatedly said fraud is so
widespread that it has corrupted the political process and, possibly, cost the
party election victories, about 120 people have been charged and 86 convicted as
of last year."(NYTimes 2007)"A 2006 study by the
Brennan Center found that 11 percent of U.S. citizens lack one, a figure in line
with a 2005 report by an election reform federal commission which suggested 12
percent of U.S. citizens lack driver's licenses. Drilling down, the Brennan
Center found that the groups worst off in this regard tend to be core Democratic
constituencies: 25 percent of voting age African-Americans and 15 percent of
voting age citizens who make less than $35,000 annually lack valid photo
The vast majority (90 percent) of the votes cast by the deceased were delivered
via absentee ballot, although that still leaves 145 that voted in-person. -
governing dot comThe state had roughly 7.3 million people listed as
eligible to vote during the time of the audit, so the cases represent a small
fraction of overall voters. - mlive dot comThis will not be
corrected by voter id. Do you have anything showing that these
"dead" people did not pull the R lever?You may want to
support votes from the dead. That is quickly becoming the GOP base.
The only voter fraud I've heard of in the past few years was a couple of
Republicans who voted twice to "show" that they could get away with
voter fraud. Except they didn't. Oops.
If you don't think there is any Voter Fraud in the recent election...
Google "How widespread is voter fraud 2012 facts and figures"... 46 of the 50 states have prosecuted or convicted voter fraud cases.More than 24 million voter registrations are invalid, yet remain on the
rolls nation-wide.There are over 1.8 million dead voters still
eligible on the rolls across the country.More than 2.75 million
Americans are registered to vote in more than one state.12 Indiana
counties have more registered voters than residents.The Ohio
Secretary of State admitted that multiple Ohio counties have more registered
voters than residents.Federal records showed 160 counties in 19
states have over 100 percent voter registration.If this many people
are TRYING to vote illegally... do you think not requiring any ID will make the
number of fraudulent votes BETTER... Or WORSE?
The South has been known for voter suppression since the Civil War. And it is
true they have learned some lessons from their corrupt behavior. Instead of the
Democratic Party it is now the Republican Party.
re:MountanmanFrom the Michigan Office of the Auditor General, Audit
Report May 2012:page 16:"Our review disclosed that the QVF voter
history file showed that 1,375 unique deceased individualswere recorded as
having voted a total of 1,381 times during the audit period."page 17:"The Department also informed us that in every instance
where it appears a deceased person orincarcerated person voted and local
records were available, a clerical error wasestablished as the reason for
the situation.The Department informed us that the examples provided
did not result in a single verified case that an ineligible person voted."
So an average of 350 a year out of 7.3 million eligible voters (the report you
mention covers a 4 year span) in Michigan are dead/imprisoned people voting.
That's .005%. Now, voter ID would end up preventing way more than .005% of
people from voting (since it turns out a lot of people actually don't have
an acceptable ID, and making them pay for some form of ID would be a poll tax
which is unconstitutional).
You can't even borrow a book from the library without ID. Why would we
want UN-identified people picking our President (UNLESS.. you want people who
shouldn't be voting voting)....You can't cash a check
without ID... but we want people without any ID voting??You
can't drive without ID. You can't register for school without ID.
You can't function in society with absolutely zero ID... but we want
unidentified people VOTING??Why would Democrats WANT totally
unidentified people voting... Unless they WANT to encourage fraud?It's not hard to get ID. You are SUPPOSED to get a SS # for your child
when they are born. So almost every person living and working in the USA
should at least have a SS#.If you don't even have a SS#... what
are the chances you are not really who you SAY you are. And that you are really
qualified to vote (of age, who you say you are, a resident of the district you
are voting in, etc)?We know for a fact that many people are voting
illegally... why would Democrats NOT want to control that??
In a report released by the Michigan state auditor general reviews the Bureau of
Elections, which is part of the Michigan Secretary of State office. The review
found more than 1,300 deceased people were recorded as having voted in the last
election.Apparently, the "dead people" voted because they did not
have to show any ID.
So, it's OK to follow the example of other countries when it comes to
voting practices, but NOT for health care, right? And BTW, the "dead people
voting" example isn't voter fraud at all. It's ELECTION FRAUD,
where the crime takes place at the top, not at the individual voter level.
Regardless, there's only one party determined to reduce the vote. It's
not the Democratic Party.
Back in 2008 Utah was giving driver's licenses to illegal alien using
documents such as the Mexican Matricular Card. The next year the legislature set
up the Utah Driver's Privilege card for those in the country illegally. In
2010 we had to take in a birth certificate to renew our license, even if we had
already had a licenseThe reason for this was an investigation into
the problem. They only sampled the licenses and soon found hundreds of licenses
given to illegal aliens, sometimes 20 or more to the same address. To register
to vote in Utah all you had to do was check a box on the license application.
They found that hundreds of illegal aliens had checked the box, and they found
that some of them had actually voted, an example of voter fraud. It
is very hard to detect voter fraud even where an ID is presented. Since there
are very few cases some believe that it isn't a problem. I had cancer for
years, but I didn't know it until it caused pain, and then it was almost
too late. If we wait for voter fraud pain it may be too late.
MMan: "Why do all dead people vote for Democrats?"Isn't
it a little hypocritical to ask others for evidence when you present none
yourself?But let's assume you are right. I would guess that
dead people vote for Democrats because, having crossed over the threshold to
enlightment, they see the rampant perfidy in Republicans (my opinion, no need to
present evidence). Maybe you will do likewise when your time comes.
Since voter fraud is such a horrible problem, where are the indictments,
prosecutions, and convictions for this crime?? Since those numbers are almost
zero, maybe the whole thing is a conspiracy created in the minds of money and
power hungry "talking heads" on AM radio. We have a lot of problems in
our country. We should focus on real issues in our society. If voting fraud is
a real problem we should prosecute the offenders before spending a bunch of
money on legislation that might not be needed at all.
I watched an elderly man at the polls last week struggling to find something to
convince the judge that he was who he said he was. It was heartbreaking and
Mark, go to Wikipedia and you will see a list all countries that require some
form of photo ID in order to vote, except the US. Why do all dead people vote
Maybe if Republicans didn't do things like declare student IDs insufficient
or what Texas is doing where names have to match (despite the state itself
mandated for a time that married women should have their maiden name listed as
their middle name on drivers licenses thus making it much more difficult to
women to vote, even hindering a judge when voting in her own courthouse) it
wouldn't be such an obvious attempt to suppress Democratic turnout.
Google "the truth about fraud" the non-partisan Brennan Center did an
extensive analysis of voter fraud.What would you put forth to refute
M-man, how about the source for YOUR claim? And please stop trying to con us.
It's no secret that the voter ID effort is 100% Republican. You
haven't forgotten Bush's big search for a voter fraud problem have
you? It was a waste, of course, because none was found - at least nothing that
caused GOP losers to demand recounts.
@ Joe Blow,"They stop many times more legal votes than illegal votes".
How do you know that? Please give us your source for your claim. Speculation? In
what other country on this planet do voters NOT have to show an ID to vote?
Answer: None, zero, nada! Even Canadians require an ID to vote and no one there
is claiming what you claim!
Voter ID laws make lots of sense.Until you dig into them. They "correct" a non-existent "problem". They stop many times
more legal votes than illegal votes.And they are only being pursued
because they can help the GOP win elections.
In this country many, many people are wary of the government, for legitimate and
illegitimate reasons. This includes older African Americans, who were the
victim of government studies that essentially left a number of black men go
untreated for syphilis, just to see what would happen.Many African
Americans who are older don't have government issued IDs, for fear that the
old days of systematic persecution may return at any moment. My mother in law
is in this category. The stories she tells of the "bad old days" would
blister anyone's ears.Even if the US went with a Mexico-style
national voter ID card - which has been impressively successful there in getting
more people to vote - a lot of Americans would prefer to opt out, not trusting
the institution that issued the IDs.It's a Catch-22 situation,
but we shouldn't get heavy-handed with requiring government ID cards until
significant voter fraud has been established, not the isolated, alleged
incidents Glenn Beck likes to elaborate on.
Voter ID laws would make sense if vote fraud were a problem. It's not. And
there are other ways to sign up for insurance besides the internet.