What a farce... pretending this is about our grand kids money. Please. Where
is that same worry that our grand kids have clean water, unpolluted places to
raise their kids, that we preserve our natural lands so that they too can go
camping, or even hunting? Where is the concern that we are burning more energy
that we are developing new sources of energy?Its not about the kids,
or grandkids money. Its about this generations desire to be able to have and
use what it likes, and not worry about what the next generation has. Otherwise
they would be equally worried about making sure their kids and grand kids had
all the things they currently enjoy.
In 2016 the federal debt will be $20 trillion. Debts, by definition, are
financial obligations that must be repaid. The government largess buys votes
currently, but our as our grandchildren are saddled with this debt, they will be
asking (What) Were they thinking?
marxist,How can a business only pass ~50% the tax to the consumer?
You're new math must be amazing!IF the consumers don't pay
the other 50%... WHO DOES?Maybe businesses have a magic money tree
they use to pay the other 50%.I wonder where they REALLY get the
money to pay the other 50% of their tax bill... If they don't get it from
customers... where do they get it?This 50% theory makes no sense in
REAL mathematics and real economics. We need to get over this delusion that
businesses only have to pass along ~50% of what they pay in taxes to customers,
and the delusion that the government can spend money they don't take from
me and you (meaning all Americans combined) (that means "all classes"
for those with a class-warfare mentality).Where the heck is a
company supposed to get the money to pay their taxes if they don't get it
from their customers?And where the heck is the government supposed
to get money to pay their bills if they don't take it from US?Even IF they take it from businesses... they take it indirectly from us!
"Any 'tax'a corporation (or other company configurations)
pays is passed to the consumer in the form of higher cost of goods produced
and/or services rendered. " This is a sidebar, but how much corporate tax
is passed on to consumers is a matter of debate. I always figured it was about
50%. That, of course, is a lot but it still leaves a substantial 50% landing on
the corporation. More important is the personal income tax.
How much doe you want to bet that the people agreeing with Pati Sorenson gladly
accept the money "taken" from those with no children that supports their
own children in school?Can they spell "hypocrite"?
Selfishness: This letter's content.
If you think the only services you should pay for are those you use
then...you're correct. I don't imagine many people pay taxes in
Somalia and they get what they pay for.
@marxist:"Of course, many would say it is just not fair to impose
higher rates on higher earners and corporations."Did you know...
corporations don't pay taxes... only people pay taxes. Any
'tax'a corporation (or other company configurations) pays is
passed to the consumer in the form of higher cost of goods produced and/or
services rendered. Furthermore, the high-end earners pay the lion's share
of taxes. And about half (the lower half) of all wage earners pay no income
taxes at all.@mark:"The second line is from an AP story in
the New York Post, Nov 07, 2013 called, IRS refunded $4B to identity
thieves."The answer to that dilemma is not that tough to come up
with... (1) Reduce federal income tax withholding requirements resulting in few
or no refunds needed to be claimed on the federal return. (2) Have the
computers flag for review, all returns with the same address. These changes are
elementary any third grader could come up with.
The problem with this entire discussion is that the proposed medicaid increases
are not part of a zero sum game. We are already paying for the "free"
care those folks are getting today. Each of us is paying an extra $1100 a year
in insurance premiums to cover those costs. The proposed system would eliminate
the need for those hidden charges and get most people covered at least for
catastrophic illness. PS. How will the debt be up three trillion in
two years when the deficit is currently $680 billion and going down as the
economy grows and more people return to work? Remember it was Mountanman who
predicted gas between $5 and $6 a gallon several days after the election twelve
months ago went against his candidate.
marxist's fallacy is what drives the left to just keep spending and
spending and taxing and taxing. His fallacy is the hope that somebody
ELSE will have to pay the bill.That's not the way the world
works (for adults). We make our own decisions and pay our own bills.
That's the difference between being "Self Reliant/Self
Sufficient" and "Dependent" (on the Government/ parents/ siblings/
neighbors/ etc).The fact is... there's nobody else to pay the
bill. We ALL have to pay the bill. The 1% can't carry the whole
burden as Marxist pretends. We are going to need to pay our OWN
bills.If you can give us an example where the Marxian view or the
"Marxian econometric model" worked... please share it. Because I
know dozens of examples where it was tried and it failed miserably (for the
people). Not so bad for those in government and the black market... but
misery for the common people.Of course in the Marxian view you must
eliminate the 1%. But if that's your goal... why not just start the
gas chambers and save some time?
We must understand this if we are ever to control Federal Spending... There is no "Federal Money". They don't have money tree, they
have a printing press, but if they use that... our economy and your savings
disappear. There is no Federal Money that wasn't taken from a
tax payer. And I personally don't care if that tax payer was a
middle-class guy or a rich guy. That money they spend has to come from
someone. And we have already spent more than we could pay back IF we
confiscated 100% of the proverbial 1%'s income. (and I complained about
Federal spending under Bush too, so spare me the partisan attack)Even if we confiscated 100% of what the proverbial 1% make it wouldn't
pay our debts. So obviously at least SOME of that money has to come from the
middle-class.We need to get out of the mind-set that there is some
magic money-machine for the Feds. There is no machine! WE are the machine that
funds the Federal Government.There... do you see why I'd like
it to be smaller? And more manageable? And more local?
Marxist,How much of your home does your paperboy own? How much of
your home does the guy own who mows your lawn or shovels your snow or the
plumber who fixes your leaks or anybody else that you hire to help out from time
to time? Why don't you give them equity as part of their pay package?
Surely, you don't think that they should fend for themselves when you have
a home and they don't.-----The letter writer is
correct. The government cannot pay out money until it takes money from the
private sector. Selfish people would tell us that they shouldn't be taxed,
but that someone else, especially that "rich guy" that Obama tells us
about, should pay for everything. Those people covet. There is no other word
that describes what happens when you want something that belongs to someone
else, something that someone else earned either through his labor or by putting
his money at risk. When those who have done nothing to earn that
"something", they covet. Personal welfare is not the
responsibility of the Federal Government. Those words do not exist in the
The USA has been in debt since 1776, except for a few months in 1837. Every
generation has to shoulder its responsibilities. Personally, I've been
paying humongous war debts all my life. I resent paying debts for stupid wars,
but I don't mind debt to invest in the education and health of our children
and our most vulnerable citizens. There's stupid, cruel debt, and then
there's intelligent, charitable debt.
@MountanmanI said that Romney attacked Obama for Obamacare being paid for
in part by 700 billion in Medicare cuts. I didn't lie. You just read my
statement wrong. (By the way, those cuts to Medicare were also in the Ryan
@ Mark. Sorry to have to be the one to inform you that it isn't the
government's job to feed people! It is however, the government's job
to protect our country from its enemies and tyrants. Its your job to feed
yourself, not your neighbor's. Dependency is not freedom, its just another
kind of slavery!
I wonder if Pati had any second thoughts about the cost of our new aircraft
carrier? One of those eat enough tax money to feed a good number of people for a
pretty long time.
@ atl134. As usual you have your facts wrong. It was Obama that transferred $750
billion from Medicare into Obamacare. Please stop trying to deceive people and
leave that job to Obama. He does it even better than you can!
"According to its most recent estimates, the IRS reports that the
individuals and businesses who don't pay what they owe rob the government
(and the rest of us taxpayers, as well) of a whopping $385 billion per year.
That's as of 2006, and the numbers have been rising over time."(Daily Finance)"Two decades ago, when the economy was a third
smaller, the IRS staff numbered about 118,000. Now it numbers 95,000 and is on
the way to about 90,000. The likelihood of a big company being audited has
plummeted 50 percentage points from 72 percent in 1990 to 22 percent in 2010.IRS data show that auditors assigned to the 14,000 or so largest
corporations found $9,354 of additional tax owed for every hour spent testing
tax returns in the 2009 fiscal year. The highest-paid IRS auditors make $71 an
hour. Based on a 2,080-hour work year, that works out to around $19 million of
lost revenue annually for every senior corporate auditor position cut from the
payroll."(David Cay Johnston)
Remember when Romney went after 714 billion in Medicare cuts as a result of
Obamacare? That's where a lot of it comes from. The rest comes from taxes
and mandate fines. It's all fully paid for. That's why the CBO scored
the Republians' repeal bill as adding around 100 billion to the deficit
over 10 years.
Republicans work hard to make sure govt. doesn't work."
Obama last year asked for the I.R.S. budget of $12.1 billion to be increased by
more than $1 billion, to enable it to hire 5,100 employees. But Republicans, who
oppose the health care program, succeeded in trimming the agency’s funds
to $11.8 billion in the budget approved last month. To accommodate the cuts, the
I.R.S. offered buyouts to 5,400 of its 95,000 employees.Although the
health care initiative will not be fully in place for years, the report found
that the budget squeeze has already affected I.R.S. operations — in part
because the tax code, which is now more than 3.8 million words, has grown more
complicated. In 2010 alone, the code underwent 579 changes — each of which
had to be explained to the public, programmed into the computer systems and
incorporated into the audit procedures used to examine returns."(NYTimes Jan 2012)
We are currently over $17 trillion in debt and headed for $20 trillion in the
next 2 years! Who's money is that? Why, its our grandchildren's money!
But who cares about them, right? Just as long as I get MY entitlements! What
coveting, what greed and what irresponsibility!
This is from the oped in the DNews“. . . 655 refunds sent to a
single address in Lithuania and 343 to a lone address in Shanghai.”“. . . 655 tax refunds to a single address in Lithuania, and 343
refunds went to a lone address in Shanghai.”The second line is
from an AP story in the New York Post, Nov 07, 2013 called, IRS refunded $4B to
identity thieves.Gotta love plagiarism. Anyway,
from the same story:“ ‘The constantly evolving tactics
used by scammers to commit identity theft continues to be one of the biggest
challenges facing the IRS, and we take this issue very seriously,” the IRS
said in a statement. “The IRS has a comprehensive and aggressive identity
theft strategy that focuses on preventing refund fraud, investigating these
crimes and assisting taxpayers victimized by it.’“Despite
budget cuts, the agency said, agents have resolved more than 565,000 cases
of identity theft this year, three times the number of cases resolved at the
same time last year.”Yeah, the IRS, like any business has to
deal with identity theft. Surprise.
"Federal money is not free, someone always has to pay and that is most often
the middle class." True, the money has to come from someone, but it
doesn't have to come from the middle class. In the 50's, 60's
and 70's rates on high incomes and corporations were much higher, but such
cannot be imposed today because both of the major political parties dare not do
it. Of course, many would say it is just not fair to impose higher
rates on higher earners and corporations. This is where the Marxian econometric
model is critical. In that view wealth accumulates and the high end because
labor is not compensated for all of the product it produces. In other words,
our system is a gigantic engine of inequality (in addition to the other things
it does) due to the exploitation of labor (typically lower earning people). So
the model would justify higher rates on the high end.Of course the
Marxian view is disputed by some of those who are acquainted with it, but it has
to be part of the debate, and is not now.