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Comments about ‘Hawaii House passes gay marriage, back to Senate’

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Published: Saturday, Nov. 9 2013 12:51 p.m. MST

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Contrarius
mid-state, TN

I watched most of the amendments and floor debate live on streaming vid yesterday. It took FOREVER, but parts were very interesting -- and educational.

The anti-gay crowd outside was incredibly rude. They had monitors, so they knew who was speaking when -- and they'd intentionally make even more noise when a pro-gay speaker had the floor. And one of the state representatives would even go outside and further rile up the crowd on purpose when one of his opponents was trying to speak. Very low class, IMHO.

And one of the reps really had me scratching my head. She was incredibly emotional, saying that outsiders (pro-gay people) were invading her state and ruining her native cultural traditions and so on -- and on, and on. She apparently doesn't realize that her own people -- the native Polynesians -- had no problems with things like homosexual relations, incest, and all sorts of sexual variations, until the Christian missionaries came along. It was really puzzling to see just how ignorant she could be (or could pretend to be) about her own culture.

And that lesbian rep who voted against the bill? -- yikes. Nuff said.

Interesting stuff. Congratulations, Hawaii!

rw123
Sandy, UT

After being labeled hypocrite and pervert in posts on similar stories, let me be clear. I don't believe in discrimination or persecution of GLBT’s. But, same-sex unions (for me) don’t meet the requirements for the rights and privileges given in a legally-recognized marriage between a man and a woman.

I am open to the assertion that there may be genetic predispositions toward same-sex attraction, but because of my religious beliefs, I can't believe God would send us here with unhealthy predispositions and then give us neither control nor ways to resist such attractions.

I know many of you don't believe the same doctrine I do, but I'm just hoping someone out there will resonate with eternal and universal doctrines.

rw123
Sandy, UT

I think brotherly love for all of God's children is the standard, whether they are living a healthy lifestyle or not. None of us is perfect. All are children of God. He isn't pleased when we (and I include myself) transgress His laws, but He loves us anyway. But I still feel it my duty to stand up for His truths.

But, we can't say we haven't been warned. There have been enough teachings against homosexuality from prophets and past (not necessarily current) teachings from most denominations that it should be clear to all the issues involved. We can't claim ignorance. Some societies and nations may be able to claim they did not know, but not this one. Both sides of these issues have been argued at length.

Contrarius
mid-state, TN

@rw123 --

"But, same-sex unions (for me) don’t meet the requirements for the rights and privileges given in a legally-recognized marriage between a man and a woman. "

Fortunately, your opinion is not what determines our laws, or their constitutionality.

How do same-sex couples act any differently from any other infertile couples?

"I can't believe God would send us here with unhealthy predispositions"

Who says that homosexuality is unhealthy?

Many species of animals out in nature practice homosexual behaviors. They are quite natural, and quite common. What is "unhealthy" about them?

"I know many of you don't believe the same doctrine I do"

Right. That's the central point for you to keep in mind.

"but I'm just hoping someone out there will resonate with eternal and universal doctrines."

Your doctrine is neither eternal nor universal. Each religion, and each sect of each religion, has its own particular dogma. There are thousands of such religions and sects across the globe -- and there is no way for human beings to know which one is correct.

Bob K
porland, OR

Who are those us of who have not walked in another's shoes to claim he is unnatural, unhealthy, immoral, etc?

Do we not trust God, that if he made some people different, that they are as valuable as we are, and it is OUR task to understand and accept them as equals, not theirs to beg us for equality?

Have we not noticed that many, many elements of the Old Testament are not honored in modern life, remembering that God gave us the ability to progress?

LDS people, tending to have larger families, produce thousands of Gay kids each year. All of the lds, in my mind, ought to be praying that God shows the prophet how He wants all those children to be integrated into the family, community, and church as equals.

Recent doctrine, saying to love all of them is nice, but there is no way that God wants some of our kids to lead 2nd class lives, as if crippled or maimed, because of how they were born.

No outsider or government will force mormon Gay temple marriages -- it is time for God to show the lds people how to truly love all their offspring.

Contrarius
mid-state, TN

@worf --

"A country of rights has transformed from a country of responsibility."

This country started OUT as a "country of rights".

Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

"No one is exempt from discrimination in some form."

That's probably true, if you stretch the concept of discrimination far enough.

So what? The widespread existence of discrimination is no reason to ignore it when we have the power to eliminate offensive instances of it.

worf
Mcallen, TX

Offensive instances can be exaggerated to gain special privileges, like making some one hire you for a job, or get punished.

Not very honest, and shameful..

postaledith
Freeland, WA

I am thrilled that Hawaii is the 16th state to legalize same-sex marriage. I believe it is also very important that we change the laws to end discrimination towards the LBGT community in their jobs and where they choose to live. It is unconstitutional and needs to stop immediately. I hope someday that America grows up and realizes that we are not the same and that no one has the right to force their beliefs on others.

Contrarius
mid-state, TN

@worf --

"Offensive instances can be exaggerated to gain special privileges, like making some one hire you for a job, or get punished. "

Again -- so what? Most laws can be abused if one tries hard enough. Is that a good excuse for not having any laws at all?

Irony Guy
Bountiful, Utah

As a fully committed LDS, I don't think people should choose same-sex marriage. I think it will be sad for them in the eternal scheme. At the same time, I also don't believe that my religious convictions have anything whatever to do with the secular law. I uphold
DC 134 which we should not mingle religion with the civil law.

worf
Mcallen, TX

@Contrarius--you're free to have your own "so what" values. Just don't force it on others.

Contrariuser
mid-state, TN

@worf --

"you're free to have your own "so what" values. Just don't force it on others."

It's called the Constitution, worf. Complaining that discrimination is widespread or that laws might be abused does nothing to change the validity of the Constitution or the importance of following it.

Rikitikitavi
Cardston, Alberta

Regardless of how legislatures vote...sin is still sin!!!

jrp7sen
Logan, UT

Congratulations Hawaii! :)

@Irony,
Shouldn't "choose" same-sex marriage? What do you mean by that exactly? I'm sorry, but your argument holds no water immediately after saying that. Gay is not a choice. Logically, gay people, being humans that they are, will fall in love. The next step is to marry the one you fall in love with. There is no such thing as gay marriage, really anyway. There is only marriage. Two people in love getting married. It's the same for straight and gay.

Schwa
South Jordan, UT

If you feel that a sin is still a sin, then your God can sort it out in the after life. For those of us alive and on earth, the legislature actually matters.

Ranch
Here, UT

rw123 says:

"But, same-sex unions (for me) don’t meet the requirements for the rights and privileges given in a legally-recognized marriage between a man and a woman."

Then you shouldn't have one, simple enough; but you have no right to define what marriage is for any other couple. PS. Your "god's" will is irrelevant.

@Rikitikitavi;

Bigotry is a "sin", but that doesn't seem to have stopped you from participating in that particular sin.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

Same sex marriage will lead to 'unhealthy' life styles…?

You mean like…life-long monogamy and commitment?

7 billion humans on earth today.

Gay marriage has not brought anyone any factual harm.

If you are against gay marriage fine.

One less invitation to write.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'...to gain special privileges, like making some one hire you for a job, or get punished.' - worf.

Heaven forbid…

that LGBT should be expected to have JOBS!

'Study: Gay Men Offered Fewer Job Interviews' - By Winston Gieseke - The Advocate - 10/04/11

'According to a study published today in the American Journal of Sociology, men whose resumes indicate that they’re gay are 40% less likely to be called in for job interviews, especially in the south or Midwest.' – article

FYI, ENDA passed the Senate.

The Republican dominated House, refuses to even vote on it.

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