@Bruce A. Frank --"Nothing but the say so of the student decides
he or she, at the moment, is what ever gender they feel like. "Do you really believe that any high school boy is going to voluntarily bring
down the ridicule of all his classmates upon himself by saying he's a girl,
just so he can switch bathrooms? Seriously??In reality,
Gender Identity Disorder is not merely a matter of deciding "at the
moment" that you are one gender or another. 1. GID may occur as
frequently as 1 in 500 people.2. Most people diagnosed with GID
identify experience gender dysphoria before puberty.3. Twin studies
indicate that GID is 62% heritable, and therefore has a strong genetic
influence.4. In male-to-female transsexuals, GID is often associated
with genetically-induced androgen insensitivity.5. Male-to-female
transsexuals have been found to have a typically female stria terminalis (part
of the brain), while female-to-male transsexuals have a typically male stria
terminalis. 6. In addition, the hypothalamus in male-to-female
transsexuals appears to function as a typical woman's does.Let's get real. Transsexualism is not a whim.
Here in CA we now have a problem with a similar law that is allowing those
claiming trans-gender identity are able to use girls rest rooms and girls
showers for the sports teems. No control. Nothing but the say so of the student
decides he or she, at the moment, is what ever gender they feel like. . .soon to
be nation wide. Complete disregard of the rights of the non-LGBT girls. . .now
coming soon to a school near you.
@David 8:44 a.m. Nov. 8, 2013Furry,The cause of the
government shutdown was that Obama and Democrats refused to negotiate on the
ACA, even refusing to vote on delaying implementation of the penalty for 1
year.----------------------Sorry, David, that's not
accurate. The shutdown happened because the Republican House leaders refused to
vote on their bill after the Senate cleaned up and amended the House bill, and
passed back to the House for concurrence. The House refused to even bring the
cleaned up and amended bill up for a vote, knowing that there were sufficient
votes to pass it, because the cleaned up bill didn't fit the far right
agenda. Nice try, doesn't fly.
I wonder what the our Father in Heaven is thinking at this time. The moral decay
of this nation will bring the downfall of this great nation as we make laws and
regulations for everything telling people just exactly how to act in every
situation sounds like Satan's plan doesn't it? Do we need to be
commanded in all things. Don't we have the right to use our common sense?
@worf --"Some children never grow up."And some
children learn to fight for their rights. If they didn't, we'd still
be a British colony. ;-)"There are things I've been
discriminated for, but I really don't care."So what? Lots
of people DO care."being fired doesn't effect me. "Lucky you. Most other people aren't nearly so lucky.
@worfI am sorry that there are things you've been discriminated
for. And if you choose to ignore, or put up with it, that is your choice. No
one will force you to fight.However, that doesn't mean other
people being discriminated have an obligation to follow your way, and choose to
ignore or put up with discrimination. If they choose to fight for equal
treatment, you cannot stop them.
@Contrarius:I'm not dependent on anyone, so being fired
doesn't effect me. I have no debts, and have paid my way through life. I
haven't taken nothing from anybody. I refuse being subjected to others.I love the peace, and security of this. Whining is a sign of weakness.
@Contrarius:Whose we? I thought the "we' was being
discriminated against, and left with nothing.A child may
say--"quit it"! " That's not fair, I'm telling"! Some children never grow up.I'm dependent on myself.
I've worked my way through life, and I don't whine for things being
unfair. There are things I've been discriminated for, but I really
@David"The cause of the government shutdown was that Obama and
Democrats refused to negotiate on the ACA"Democrats and Obama
compromised by voting for the House funding levels on everything else in the
gov't even though they wanted many changes to that. The
difference between Republican and Democratic requests to delay the mandate is
that Democrats want it delayed just long enough to make sure the system is
working right and Republicans want to just destroy it and get rid of it all.
There's a very interesting article in the NYT about this bill. The headline
is "Senate Bill on Bias Against Gays Finds Support in Mormons".It notes that Mormon legislators provided crucial support for the bill.
Those included Harry Reid (I didn't know he was Mormon!), who said:
“People shouldn’t be able to fire them because of their sexual
orientation any more than you can fire them if they’re Mormon".Other Mormons involved included Orrin Hatch, Gordon H. Smith (a former
senator who convinced Hatch), and Dean Heller. Out of 7 Mormon Senators,
**five** of them voted FOR the bill.The article also reminds us that
"the church publicly backed a provision in Salt Lake City in 2009 that
extended many of the same workplace protections as the Senate bill. "
Furry,The cause of the government shutdown was that Obama and
Democrats refused to negotiate on the ACA, even refusing to vote on delaying
implementation of the penalty for 1 year.And yet I now hear
Democratic Senators proposing to the president that they delay the penalty...for
one year.Hypocrisy at its finest. Democrats will shut
down the government when Republicans propose something. But then a month later
Democrats will propose the same thing.
@bigv56 --"No group needs special rights. It will just be
abused."Obviously we should remove all special religious
protections. It's fine to fire someone just because they're Mormon,
right?@worf --"...overcome these things without
whining to government..."So of course you won't go whining
to the government when we start firing people just for being Mormons --
right?@Mikhail --"Need I go on? "Please go on and read the legal definition for discrimination."In Constitutional Law, the grant by statute of particular privileges to a
class arbitrarily designated from a sizable number of persons, where no
reasonable distinction exists between the favored and disfavored
classes."This means that you base your hiring and firing
decisions on characteristics that are unrelated to job performance -- like skin
color, gender, or sexual orientation. In most jobs, gay people or women or
blacks can perform their jobs just as well as anyone else.Groups
like short-fingered piano players are examples of things that DO affect job
performance. Refusing to hire people who are unable to perform their jobs is NOT
discrimination."Why are we tilting at windmills?"The US Constitution is not a windmill. It's called the Equal Protection
Mikhail asks: "Why are we tilting at windmills?"Because
evil prevails when good people do nothing.
Anti-discrimination laws aren't necessary, until you are fired for being
different. The people who don't think these laws are necessary
don't have to worry. You will still have your job, and nobody will be able
to take it away from you. The only reason you need to worry about losing your
job will be due to poor job performance or you employer needs to downsize its
@David 10:07 p.m. Nov. 7, 2013"One party in one house of
Congress should not stand in the way of millions of Americans who want to go to
work each day..."At first I thought Obama was talking about the
Senate Democrats refusing to vote on a budget during the government shutdown.---------------------Actually you are talking about the far
right House leadership. The Senate amended the bill it received from the House
(to clean it up) and returned the clean version to the House for approval.
There were sufficient votes, including Republican votes, to pass it but the
Republican House leadership refused to bring it up for the vote. THAT is the
cause of the government shutdown.
"This is the role of government?"Actually, yes it is. You
see our founding fathers mentioned this when they wrote the Declaration of
Independence. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are
created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That
to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their
just powers from the consent of the governed..."
Hey, I think that the Senate missed the short people, the fat people, the
exceedingly tall people, the brown-eyed people, the red-headed stepchild, the
short-fingered piano players, the vertically challenged NBA aspirants…
Need I go on? If you want to count the need by the shear numbers of
discriminatory practices, this is not anywhere at the top of the list. Not
having such a law will not change peoples propensity to be narrow-minded any
more than having the such laws make people less narrow-minded. This is the role
of government? Why are we tilting at windmills?
@Baccus0902:Are there, anyone in history, who hasn't faced
discrimination in some form? Like it or not it's part of life. We find
ways to cope with it. You roll with the punches.It's a shame
when some go crying to the government for special privileges, because they
can't take the heat, and challenges of life. They want to sponge of off
others, because they think they're picked on more than others. Deal with
it.I've seen people with tremendous physical handicaps who took
no handouts, did not whine about how people looked at them, and accomplish great
things. One of them is my brother. I admire these folks.Being gay
is your choice, and that's fine, but I don't have to sit around
feeling sorry about it.
"One party in one house of Congress should not stand in the way of millions
of Americans who want to go to work each day..."At first I
thought Obama was talking about the Senate Democrats refusing to vote on a
budget during the government shutdown.
Mike Lee gets sadder every day.
@Chris B"Even most 4 year olds know what makes someone a man and what
makes someone a woman."Yes, and most people old enough to
operate a computer and comment on the DN realize that there may be subjects
about which they do not know enough to comment intelligently, yet are unwilling
do a minute of research first.....As for 'Utah senators split
vote’: the Senator who is less popular on DN acted as Jesus would, in
support of fairness toward our fellow humans, while the Senator who gets
applause by catering to obstruction and small mindedness continued in that vein.
Shame on you Mr. Hatch. You had to sell your soul to raise the money you needed
for reelection. Thanks Mr. Lee for supporting the values of our founding
fathers. I am sure your parents are proud of you. If you really do have the
power of shutting down the government why don't you just close down about
45% of government temperately that is not needed.
Worf, Chris B. and othersThe fact that the Senate approved this bill it
doesn't mean it will become law. There is a strong chance Congress will
kill it.... so, relax!The fact that the Senate was willing to vote on it
was a great advance for the cause of equality and fairness in this country.It is interesting how "so called" religious people can use the gospel
of Christ to discriminate and try to perpetuate a system of intolerance and
bigotry. Fortunately, the people of the Unites States and the world are waking
up to social justice and human rights for all humans.Friends, it is sad
that my life style offends you so much. Your bigotry offends me but I will
defend your right to voice your opinion and enjoy your lives with all the
privileges that I don't have. But, I will keep on fighting for those
privileges for me and others, no more but not less either. The Christ I know
wouldn't want it in any other way.
@t702;"Don't we have existing laws that prohibits
discrimination against race, religion, gender, etc?"Yes, adding
sexual orientation/gender identity to the list isn't going to be any more
litigious than any other item on the list.@rw123;"If
you listen carefully enough, you'll hear the slow, but certain undertones
of the erosion of religious freedoms"What about our relgious
freedom? It doesn't count because we believe differently than you?
Hypocrite, thy screen-name is Rw123.@Mikhail;If these
laws are "not needed" than we can remove the laws that protect the
religious, race or gendered too, right? Also, giving anybody a
"religioius" exemption just allows continued discrimination.@bigv56;"No group needs special rights. It will just be
abused."Then get rid of the protections on the religious. You
can see how they're abusing the system.
* A sixty year old person may not gain employment due to age.* A
person looking like a linebacker maybe hired over someone shorter, and more
filled out.* An attractive women may get employed over plain
Jane.You become creative, and overcome these things without whining
to government for help. I've seen many become successful because of their
effort with over coming life's unfairness.
In 2012, Hosanna-Tabor v. EEOC, the U.S. Supreme Court unanimously upheld the
firing of a disabled teacher at a Lutheran school. Religious institutions
are given broad protections over hiring and firing policies and discrimination
claims.Religious institutions are exempt from the federal Americans
with Disabilities Act. (Explains why LDS chapels aren't required to have
any automatic doors). BUT an institution or business which hires
non-adherents and serves non-adherants (like a Catholic university or hospital)
may be subject to such laws. Churches and religious institutions in
the U.S. have broad protections, contrary to those pushing the "war against
religion" would have us believe. There are many other countries, ignored by
the "war against religion," crowd where freedom of religion is actually
"Firing someone just because they are gay is not religious freedom,
it's bigotry"And getting someone fired in California
because they supported Prop. 8 is what?
No group needs special rights. It will just be abused.
@Chris B --"Even most 4 year olds know what makes someone a man
and what makes someone a woman."What do YOU think makes someone
a man or a woman, Chris?Is a person with XXY chromosomes male, or
female?Is a person with XO chromosomes male, or female?Is a person who has a uterus and ovaries, but also testes and other male
anatomy, male, or female?Is a person with a male-appearing body, but
a female-functioning brain, male, or female?These should be simple
questions for you to answer -- right?In reality, the transgender
issue is a real problem -- and discrimination, including violence, against
transgendered individuals happens very frequently.But of course
that's only one small part of this legislation.People are
legally fired just for being gay, all across this country, all the time.
Something as simple as saying "I'm going to the movies with my
boyfriend" can get you fired. It's been illegal to discriminate against
women and racial minorities for years -- and it's way past time to extend
the same protections to LGBT people.
Many of the comments on here demonstrate why this law is required.
My Religion tells me that Straight people are evil and devil worshipers. So I
make sure to fire any employee that I know is straight! And when renting out my
apartment complex I make sure straight people aren't allowed there because
of the the straight things they are doing.This is a ridiculous
supposition, but it is MY freedom of religion to discriminate against anyone I
want! The truth of the matter, is a business does not have a
religion and is in the public square to serve all of the public. All this bill
does is make sure that people are protected from unfair bias that has nothing to
do with their work ethic.
Wow! Some mean-spirited comments are allowed to be slipped through the public
forum censors again today. I am losing more faith in the sincerity of the
Deseret News' mission to enrich the world when I see more of this happening
on the readers' forums.
@rw123"If you listen carefully enough, you'll hear the slow, but
certain undertones of the erosion of religious freedoms,"Firing
someone just because they are gay is not religious freedom, it's
bigotry.@t702"Don't we have existing laws that
prohibits discrimination against race, religion, gender, etc? "Right, but we don't have one for sexual orientation.@Mikhail"Rather than understanding that such laws are non-sense and
are not needed "Completely false. Heck, at Penn State we had
girls thrown off the womens' basketball team because the coach perceived
them to be lesbians.
So every time I don't hire a gay applicant or fire a gay employee for
legitimate reasons, I'm going to get sued, right?So we've
created a protected class based on chosen lifestyle. ..... Nice.All
in the name of political correctness.
"The Senate rejected an amendment sponsored by Republican Sen. Pat Toomey of
Pennsylvania that would have expanded the number of groups that are covered
under the religious exemption. Opponents argued that it would undermine the core
bill."It looks to me as though the supports of the bill
don't like religious people because they might "undermine" support
for such legislation.
Chris B, you really ought to research the subject of transgendered individuals
before delivering wildly simplistic and just plain incorrect pronouncements
about people who undergo gender change surgeries.
Wow Chris B when things don't involve the Utes you actually make a lot of
sense! Why do people continue to disparage Mike Lee when the real
culprit is the RHINO Orrin Hatch. He is voting for more frivolous lawsuits and
government red tape with this bill. Why is no one addressing the fact that
Hatch has a lower approval rating than Lee? I wonder why? Could it be that Lee
at least has the convictions to stand up for the constitution and keeping
government out of our lives. How is Obamacare treating everyone? Doesn't
seem like it is too popular and that our president has been lying to the
American public for years. Maybe Lee was a bit smarter than everyone else back
there and didn't bow down to pressure or the Elite viewpoints. Hatch once
voted against this bill, what happened? Does he have a spine?
Chris B,The vote wasn't on gender reassignment or who uses
which restroom. It was specifically on could a business fire someone solely for
being identified as gay. This is a fairness issue. I'm not a supporter of
gay rights to any extreme, but this is a fairness issue. Should we economically
persecute people if we don't agree with their opinions or private
lifestyle, especially if those opinions or lifestyles do not affect the
workplace? I don't think we should. And if gays are granted
protections in the workplace, perhaps they can return the favor and not seek to
push religious opinions or practices out of the public space.
Really??? This is an issue that really needs attention? Now? I think that the
discrimination might be running in the opposite direction. This is a set-up to
make people think that conservatives are homo-phobic and don't want gay
people to be treated the same as everyone else. Both are lies. The Senate is
trying to set up the House on this one. Rather than understanding that such
laws are non-sense and are not needed - and may lead to more problems than
solutions - those in the Senate that voted for it are trying to drive a wedge
between conservative America and Progressive Amerika. Nice going, Orrin. You
have sold out once again. Never ceasing to disappoint...
USALover,I know, isn't it funny. We should also start
supporting "age reassignment" for people who think they are a different
age than they are. And species reassignment, for people who don't feel
like humans but different species. It's all too funny!
Don't we have existing laws that prohibits discrimination against race,
religion, gender, etc? This is just liberals creating work for their
pals, trial laywers, so they pass their outrages fees to the rest of us
And when House Republicans go on record as opposing ENDA, which we all know they
will, they'll return to the hoots and harrumphs of approval from within
their gerrymandered infra-red districts... and then wonder what went wrong when
they lose control of the House in 2014.
If you listen carefully enough, you'll hear the slow, but certain
undertones of the erosion of religious freedoms, even though they are supposed
to be protected by the constitution. There are portent's in the wind of
this erosion.Those who say otherwise are either blind to the trends
or specifically omitting the erosion from their dialogue, hoping we won't
@The Rock,Isnt it funny that some people seem to think a doctor can
change someone's gender? The irony too is a person who undergoes such a
surgery seems to be admitting they are not the gender they wish to be, if they
feel they need to change something in order to try and be the gender they wish
they were. Silly liberals, trying to change the definition of what is a man and
what is a woman. Even most 4 year olds know what makes someone a man and what
makes someone a woman.
Senator Lee is waiting to cause another Seven Billion Dollar needless government
"Gender reassignment"? I just love the every growing PC lexicon...
@The Rock,The crazy thing is most liberals support anyone using
whichever restroom they feel most comfortable with, surgery or not. So in other words, they support any male in the world who simply says "I
am a woman" being able to walk in any female restroom/locker room in the
world. Be careful what you ask for. Every high school male could
"decide to be a woman" whenever he wanted, and switch back and for
whenever he wanted to as well. Besides, surgery doesn't
change anything. Similarly, me asking a doctor to sew wings on my
arms wouldn't turn me into a bird, just as a man asking a doctor to alter
his physical appearance doesn't make him anything other than a man who has
asked a doctor to alter his physical appearance. There was an ABC
article yesterday about a man who thinks he is a dog. Lots of similarities to
those who may indeed THINK they are a different gender than competent medical
professionals have concluded.
All else being equal, good luck getting the job if your not the gay applicant
We had a guy going through gender reassignment surgery where I work. One day HR
sent out an email to all employees stating the company policy allows a person
going through this procedure, to begin using the restrooms of the targeted
gender, once the procedure reaches a certain place.All the ladies
protested.Votes have consequences.
Mike Lee voted to continue discriminating against LGBT citizens. No surprise
You know -- If the Equal Rights Amendment had passed, we
wouldn't be needing to spend all this time and money spelling out each and
every little laws one issue at a time.
And this is news that Lee voted NO? Just when has he voted yes on any thing? Oh
wait he voted yes to shut down the Government, my bad.
"reality that the Republican-led House, where conservatives have a firm grip
on the agenda, is unlikely to even vote on the legislation. Speaker John
Boehner, R-Ohio, maintains his longstanding opposition to the measure, arguing
that it is unnecessary and certain to create costly, frivolous lawsuits for
businesses."Well done BoehnerKeep up the good work!