Anyone with a lick of common sense could see plainly that Obamacare was bogus
and would be an epic failure from months before it was ever passed.
Unfortunately that does not include at least half of the American voting
population. Also, do not defend Romneycare just because Romney
happens to be a Republican and a member of the Church. "Bipartisan"or
not, Romneycare was still the basis for Obamacare, and it was still, like
Obamacare, a naked power grab that is an affront to the principles upon which
America was founded, namely individual liberty, freedom of choice,
self-reliance, and free-market economics.
It is not at all clear to me that the President lied. It seems that most of
those affected, purchased these unqualified plans after the ACA was passed and
before the ACA was put into effect this year. In those cases, the law would not
have allowed plans not meeting the minimum ACA requirements to be grandfathered
as was done for all the healthcare plans in place before the ACA was enacted. I
seriously question whether the president could have been aware of the
consequences of this temporary loophole that the Insurance companies
surreptitiously exploited during the interim between the enactment and the
execution of the ACA. It seems to me that mendacious Mitt and other
Republicans have rushed to judgement and overplayed their obvious partisan
political cards on this one.
In theory, people can keep their health plans. If insurance companies cancel
them, that says more about the condition of the insurance companies than it says
about the ACA. The ACA is designed to give insurance to people that were denied
coverage otherwise...I am one of them. Of course some of the insurance companies
are not going to meet the requirements of the ACA because it requires fair
treatment of all and the insurance companies have a big problem with that.
It's estimated that 11-15 million Americans are affected by this.
That's 5%, the vast majority of people can keep their healthcare plan. The
ones that can't fall in two categories: 1. The ones that had junk plans
with absurd deductibles (find the lousiest bronze plan and realize these plans
being banned are even worse). 2. People whose plans didn't cover one of the
mandatory requirements like maternity care or birth control (in these cases a
similar plan can be found on the exchange). I won't speak for
all Democrats but you know why I don't care much about the "lie"?
Because the statement was still mostly true and in the end millions more
Americans are going to have more affordable health insurance. The good outweighs
There are millions of people in this nation and throughout the world that are
schooled in the art of lying. Very young people are taught the rudiments and
the education proceeds through school and through great centers of learning.
These people are usually called businessmen; however they have many other names.
Since the people drawn to be our political leaders are almost
always from the businessman group does it really make any sense to argue about
whether or not they lie.
the only way to fix the lies is to get rid of the "liar" and last time I
checked he still has 3 more years in office unfortunately.
@pragmatistferlife "Both qualify as lies one benign the other morally
abhorrent."Lies which disrupt the health care of millions of
Americans are the morally abhorrent kind. The very definition of bull.
Really. Republicans said "you lie!" - that illegals WOULD get free
health care, that there would be death panels and that THEY never EVER promoted
mandatory health care insurance. Pants on fire.They also said Obama
couldn't be president because they believd he was born in Kenya. AHH HEEEM
the Canadian TED CRUZ for president?Pinocchio is a republican and
full of fake outrage.
Liberal Larry - Many on your side called Bush a lier. Ever heard the phrase
"Bush lied and people died"? The thing that makes this ACA
among the worst of Presidential lies is that it literally affects every citizen
in the country. And it will become the most expensive piece of legislation ever
enacted by Congress. I hope that future Presidents and Congresses have the
guts to change the ACA and redo stuff that needs redoing.
"I don't vote for politicians who do."Then you dont
Mm..no that dress doesn't make you look heavy..Iraq has weapons of mass
destruction. Both qualify as lies one benign the other morally abhorrent. "To a liberal lies are only benign and irrelevant." A few years ago Harry G. Frankfurt wrote a small book called "On
truth" talking about what truth is and it's importance. His follow up
book was on Bull..something. The premise of the book is how much more dangerous
the later is because while a lie is a knowing distortion of the truth, bull...is
a complete disregard for the truth. Someone who engages in the later
doesn't know the truth nor do they care. They simply have a point to make
and say whatever it takes to make that point. Notice I don't
accuse you of lying. I do think your opinions are dangerous, not because I
disagree with them but because they have a complete disregard for the truth.
@ Joe Blow. How am I any different? I don't lie and I don't vote for
politicians who do. That's the difference.
"Democrats do not care about Obama's lies! To them any means justifies
the end; making the government your doctor! But if a Republican lies; well,
that's different!"And how are you any different?
Folks just for context, the CBO report also talks about how Employer Sponsored
Insurance had decreased by nearly 20% between 2000 and 2010, and it also
projects the ESI's will begin to increase again, because of the ACA in
about 5 years.
So the latest tactic by the left to cover up all the lies by the president is to
try and characterize all the canceled policies as "Junk Policies".Obviously something that does conform to every Obamacare regulation
(like maternity benefits to old people) must be junk! It doesn't matter if
the person who bought the policy knew full well what it covered and didn't
cover and if it insured exactly what the person expected; it must still be junk
because it didn't have the blessing of some bureaucrat in Washington
D.C.That's like saying my new, good-gas-milage, 5-passenger car
is "Junk" and must be scrapped because it doesn't have 4 wheel
drive and carry 8 passengers. I should be forced to buy a $60K SUV that I
don't need, just because someone else "knows what is good for me",
right??Obamacare is all about taking choices away from the
individual and making everyone pay for a one-size-fits-all vision of this
progressive leftist named Obama.
"Moral: When you're working on a major change in America and want to
get public support, don't hide what you're up to and don't try to
do it on your own." Do you mean like with the rollout of Medicare Part D?
@ Prag. You have proven my point. To a liberal lies are only benign and
irrelevant. Dishonesty therefore is a virtue to a liberal aka Bill Clinton,
"I didn't have sex with that woman, aka Harry Reid, "Romney
hasn't paid taxes for 10 years", aka Hillary, "What difference does
it make", aka Obama, "Obamacare will reduce healthcare premiums by $2500
for a family of 4". I could go on and on but the truth does not matter to
you, as you have stated.
@pragmatistferlife "Still a small percentage."Administration
analysts said otherwise, over three years ago. Their mid-range estimate was that
51% of employer plans would be terminated as a result of Obamacare. Their
high-end estimate was 69%. (See the Federal Register, vol. 75, no. 116,
Thursday, June 16, 2010.)This isn't Republicans -- it is
Obama's own administration. Meanwhile, he was telling the citizenry,
"If you like your health-care plan, you can keep your health-care plan.
Period." It was an outright lie.@pragmatistferlife
"[I]t's entirely possible...that some companies will drop their plans
because their employees can get better coverage for less on the
exchanges."Maybe in theory, but not in practice.@Truthseeker "When Obama first made those statements he wasn't
lying."Yes, he was. As shown in the reference above, the
fundamental design of Obamacare was to replace current plans with something
else. This was known from the outset.@Blue "tiny
fraction"Mid-range estimate 51%, from Obama's own
truthseeker: You must be kidding! For you to justify blatant untruths told by
Obama is amazing! This is typical of politicians, and supporters of the kingmen
liars. "They didn't really mean what they said," or "This will
really work well if we just give them (the liars) time to make it work," as
if somehow it is O.K. to lie because there is a 'higher purpose' in
mind. Sorry, a lie is a lie. A half truth is still a lie! Obama did not
misspeak when he said "You can keep your own health care and your own
doctor." That was a bald faced lie and he knew it! Republicans and
Democrats have all participated in it and by extension every citizen that
supported them in their lies. Government's sole purpose is to maintain
power and control at any cost, including lying to a naive and deluded public.
Mr. BennettI remember well that you worked on an alternative plan
with Senator Wyden, and for that I applaud your efforts. Though I didn't
favor your plan, you were one of the few Republicans who actually was invested
in addressing the issue. We are worse off as a country for not having you in
D.C. However, i do not believe for one moment that the majority of
Republicans in Congress were invested in developing a real plan or working with
Pres. Obama. Many Republicans were too busy pedalling the lies of " death
panels." Actually, i recall now that the ideas for a plan Republicans were
floating was evaluated and it was determined it would cost nearly the same as
ACA but extend coverage for only a small fraction of the current uninsured.Pres. Obama hasn't had the same Congress to work with that Gov.
Romney had. Republicans in Congress main goal has been to deny, or
obstruct--regardless of the outcome--a fact believed by a majority of Americans
which is why Republicans popularity is at historic lows, lower than Obama or
How lovely to see conservatives froth about lies vs. truth.I'm
making a note of this. It'll come in handy as the 2014 and 2016 elections
draw nearer.Meanwhile, I am definitely _not_ happy when an elected
official says something that later turns out to be not 100% true. But a little
context here would be helpful. The "lies" you guys are getting worked
up about concern a tiny fraction of privately insured Americans whose policies
don't meet ACA minimums.
The vast majority of people will keep their current policies and Drs. When Obama first made those statements he wasn't lying--the exchanges
hadn't been "built" etc., the insurance requirements hadn't
been determined etc. But I would agree it is long past due for Obama and others
to keep repeating the same line. I knew some self-insured people would pay more
and not be able to keep their current policies because someone (can't
remember who) explained it in more detail. What was explained was that some
people might pay more, but they would have better--not junk--policies. These
stories aren't being reported. Many of those who are held up as examples
by media of having their insurance cancelled and having to pay more upon closer
examination, will be paying less (including subsidies) for better policies.
Others will pay more, again, for better policies. One woman in the media had
her low-cost policy cancelled, a policy that had NO hospital coverage. So those who are calling out Obama for lying--I hope you are holding
your media personalities and politicians to the same standard and calling them
out on their lies.
I'll believe that Democrats care about lies when they condemn Obama for
lying to us. Until then, they support his lies. They also seem to have
forgotten that Obama shoved ObamaCare on us. We told him no (59% of us), but he
wouldn't listen. They want us to believe that Romney or Bush or Mickey
Mouse was somehow responsible for ObamaCare. It was Obama's
"signature" legislation. He owns it. Those who support him own it. There is no mythical "rich guy" who will pay for all the
premiums of those who will get "subsidized" insurance. You and I will
pay for that, just like we pay for every program that government foists on us.
Government can't pay out money until it has collected that money from the
private sector or borrowed it. Liberals refuse to acknowledge that fact. They
think that there is some kind of fairy-godmother living in Washington who can
wave a wand and "presto", the gifts fall from heaven.Either
open your wallets and pay the whole price or demand that ObamaCare be removed.
It is dishonest to expect someone else to be forced to pay for your personal
Liberal Larry & others: If it is only now that some, including you it
appears, are admitting that both Republicans and Democrats have lied to the
American people (Bush/Obama, etc.), doesn't that say something about the
ignorance of those who are just figuring it out? You are either trying to
justify Obama's lies or you haven't come to terms with the fact that
Republicans and Democrats, and most politicians by implication, are liars. Just
as former Senator Bennett refused to call a spade a spade when Obama lied about
it, it is quite ironic that he now wants to tell us that he lied! Where was he
when we needed his voice? It was the same place that all the other voices
were-no where! Our Congressmen, Republican and Democrat, were more interested
in their position than defending integrity and honesty in office! Come on
people! Figure it out! At the very minimum, you should be supporting candidates
that will tell the American people the truth. It is obvious that Obama lied
about Obamacare! Quit trying to justify those lies by saying others have lied
too. A lie is a lie, whether by Democrat or Republican.
Nate, the self insured are exactly who the Republicans are talking about. This
is a group everyone knew was there and would have to change policies..yes
including the President. The point is it's a small group. In addition any
employer sponsored plans that didn't meet standards are also included in
those numbers now. That's how it could be beyond the 2 to 3 million
number. Still a small percentage. If employers who's plans do
meet standards choose to drop those plans just because (name the reason)
that's entirely different. Your numbers are speculative in the first place
and don't consider outcomes at all. As long as we're speculating
it's entirely possible (as reported) that some companies will drop their
plans because their employees can get better coverage for less on the exchanges.
Mm..wart benign, small percentage irrelevant to content and overall
@liberal larryFill in the blank: "Bush ____, people died."
Some civility.@pragmatistferlifeYou're only
counting people who self-insure. The next group to be caught in the trap is the
employer-insured. Estimates go as high as 93 million people affected.This is a horrible mess Obama has made. Stop trying to downplay it.
A "wart"? 1: [lahy] noun, verb, lied, ly·ing. noun 1.
A false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional
untruth; a falsehood. Synonyms: prevarication, falsification. Antonyms:
truth.Definition of wart: wawrt ]1.small lump on skin: a small
benign rough lump that grows, usually, on the hands, feet, or genitals, caused
by a virus. A wart is not a lie Prag. sorry!
@ Larry President Obama failed to realize Are you kidding. He knew for a fact
and therein lies the problem. HE LIED! Junk policies, you repeat the Obama
mantra. For those who had those policies they were not junk They were
affordable. You libs always know best for other people.This is so like Obama
just as in Bengazi. Americans were dying and Obama is still lying. He is still
lying about this and just about everything he talks about.
"Democrats do not care about Obama's lies!" Once again Mm is
wrong, wrong, wrong. Democrats/liberals etc. do care about all lies, but
putting the statement about you can keep your health care plan in perspective is
not an exercise in exoneration. It is small percentage of Americans
with health insurance who purchased policies (in many/most cases knowingly) that
weren't compliant who now have to buy policies that do comply, and, give
them benefits that are worthwhile. In some cases this small percentage will pay
nothing more, in some cases they will pay a little more and in some cases they
will pay a lot more depending on the plan they had before. It's still a
small percentage of people compared to the over 280 million Americans with
health insurance. So Democrats aren't going around saying hey
have you seen this wart under my eye doesn't make the wart cancer.
It's just a wart.
Democrats do not care about Obama's lies! To them any means justifies the
end; making the government your doctor! But if a Republican lies; well,
After Bush and Cheney lead this country into war with Iraq on claims of
"weapons of mass destruction" most opponents of the war disagreed with
the president but rarely called him a liar. President Obama failed to realize
that a small fraction of Americans would lose their low grade, junk health
insurance policies, and he is attacked by the right as a liar and a fraud. Rather than paint Obama as a liar I think this demonstrates the lack of
civility that the right has for our president. For conservatives tearing down
Obama's presidency is more important that implementing good public policy!
The fact that Obama promised the most transparent administration ever was the
first big lie. It has been downhill from there.What disappoints me
the most is the fact that people could not see though the hubris from the
beginning. I am constantly amazed that many people still willfully blind
themselves to this admiration's innate dishonesty.