I lovehow the Gop uses words like patriot, freedom,the constitution. Most of the
Nutcases dont know crap. You always hear "This isnt what the american people
want" We the people voted in 2012 for our president. Obamacare was part of
the scenario. The american peple have spoken! Get over it! If you dont like the
results, Go out and try again, to change it, by winning an election. Dont try to
ell me your fantasy dreams of what the american people want. We found that out a
year ago, when we sent Romney packing
I could never understand how a guy from Pa. get elected in Ut. in 1976, then
stay in office all these years.
@Semi LightsThose are from 2011.@UtahBlueDevil
"Trying to kill unrelated legislation through the budget process is a
dishonest act...."Take it up with James Madison."The House of Representatives can not only refuse, but they alone can
propose the supplies requisite for the support of Government. They, in a word,
hold the purse; that powerful instrument by which we behold, in the history of
the British Constitution, an infant and humble representation of the People
gradually enlarging the sphere of its activity and importance, and finally
reducing, as far as it seems to have wished, all the overgrown prerogatives of
the other branches of the Government. This power over the purse may, in fact, be
regarded as the most complete and effectual weapon, with which any Constitution
can arm the immediate Representatives of the People, for obtaining a redress of
every grievance, and for carrying into effect every just and salutary
measure." (Federalist #58)You disprove your own point when you
call Obamacare non-negotiable. Non-negotiable by whom? Lee and Cruz called for
negotiation from the outset."You want Obamacare repealed...
propose an alternative."Anyone who says we haven't, is just
2 Bit,Semi-Strong here.Sure. Try "Mike Pence Shut
it Down". Comes with video. No need to read.
Lost in DCGoogle Mike Pence Shut It Down
Semi-Strong,Can you give us any references to your story about all
the tea party people shouting "shut it down" at rallies? I must have
missed that news story. Maybe I don't listen to the same news you listen
to. I can't find anything about it on the internet either though. Maybe
YOU just made it up?I would love some references we can google to
read the story.
T. Party... you are right... Obama said "We will not negotiate, send us a
clean CR".... if we want to do the full quote. Trying to kill unrelated
legislation through the budget process is a dishonest act, regardless of who the
one promoting the act is. I will give you another hint.... Lee and
Cruz also said they would not negotiate. Their form on negotiation was along
the lines of saying " you pick... I either kill your daughter, or your wife,
you choose". No more was Obamacare seriously on the table than was gun
control ever negotiable either.It is time that a budget bill, is a
budget bill. Pure and simple. You want Obamacare repealed...
propose an alternative. Until then.... just saying no is not negotiating, by
either side.And lets be clear.... the US has never had its spending
in line with its income....never. Not in over 200 years. This
"budget" chatter is just air cover for a whole lot of other issues.
Recent Rasmussen pole has Obama aligned voters at 42%, Tea Party aligned voters
at 42%, and the balance undecided. I think the old guard should move aside and
let the young move in.
Great letter. Agree 100%. In 2010 we saw some new fresh smart senators born
(Mike Lee being one of them) who had the courage to stand against the national
media, the communist left, and the progressive GOP to STAND for conservative
I guess all us democrats are anti American? How self righteous can it get? Sen
Lee has done nothing but bash Obama for absolutely everything! He hasn't
had any plans of his own, for anything else! He has no plans to improve
healthcare. He has no plans for anything! that is all it takes to be a true
American? You know, whether you like what Obama has done, or not, at least he
has done something. I personally worked with stimulus funds and I seen the good
that it did. It has been disgusting the way in which Republicans have carried
on, as if they were a bunch of crying children. They scream and they pout in
hopes that they will get their way! The only thing thay stand for is making sure
all the entitlements go the wealthy. They certainly care little about the
average American and they are far from being the heroes of this nation, at least
right now! If he is so great, tell me, what has he really done? It is easy to
bash the plan of others. Where is his plan! Huh?
per Res Novae yesterday afternoonAs its Halloween time, you could
have referenced Salem, Mass in 1692.
T. Party,Who was shouting "shut it down" at rallies?
Moderate (what we used to call conservative) Republicans? Democrats? Nope.
Tea Partiers.The gray heads in the party warned them. They would
not listen. Re-read Senator Bennett's piece prior to the shutdown. This
was Tea Party driven start to finish. Period.
@UtahBlueDevil "What is being proposed here by the Tea Party types is the
furthest thing from patriotism."Which proposals? Getting our
spending in line with our income? Avoiding a budget-killing federal program?I say, if you love your country, protect it from the forces that tear it
down. Crippling debt will do that to us.Partisans who would rather
shut down the government than negotiate a budget will also do that. You should
go back an re-examine who those people were. I'll give you a hint: there
was someone who said during the shutdown, "We will not negotiate."
To "Open Minded Mormon" what has Cruz or Lee done to trample the
constitution? Have they single handedly implemented any law without
congressional approval? Have they taken over the Presidency? Explain how 2
senators by themselves can enact any law that destroys the constitution?You realize that the Obama administration has done more to destroy the
Constitution than your imagination attributes to Cruz and Lee.
The tide is going out with the tea party. Senator stated the collapse of the tea
"Sal"Senator Hatch is a savvier politician than Mike Lee."We don't need politicians in our government. What we need are
patriots. Mike Lee is a patriot of the finest order."He knew
Republicans would win the ACA battle by allowing it to die of its own
accord."Obamacare will not die of its own accord. It has to be
killed... something like you'd slay a nasty dragon.@Roland
Kayser:"Neither a true patriot nor a true conservative would try to
destroy the world economy to get what they want."The folks who
tried to destroy the world economy to get what they want are Obama and Harry
Reid. They refused to negotiate on, or even consider, any of the several points
the Republicans put forth to try to bring our ballooning national debt under
some kind of control. Hence the government shut down. And who shut it down?
The president, of course. He runs the government. He sent the word to close
the parks and memorials. It wasn't Boehner or Republicans. They have no
authority to shut anything down... except maybe the House, which remained open.
Did Freedom Works send out a mass email for everyone to write letters bashing
Hatch and calling Lee a Patriot (comparing him to those at the Boston Tea
Party?)?It sure seems we've seen the exact same letter for
about 3 straight days now. Coincidence? I think not!
You can't "rehabilitate" a true patriot. They will go to their
grave defending the cause of freedom.======== Fine, suit
yourselves.But that is NOT a "true patriot".A True
Patriot wouldn't have trampled the Untied States Constitution like Cruz,
Lee, and their lemmings are doing.I'm a Veteran and have sworn
the same oath that Ted and Mike are now breaking.BTW - Does not make
a very good Mormon either.AoF 12.We believe in being subject to
kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining
the law.The Law's the Law.If you don't LIKE it,
change it.But do it by getting the required votes [per the Constitution].
What an absurd notion that patriotism only knows one political party - or even
worse yet - a singular ideology. If anything, demanding that everyone think,
believe, and act like you, is the antitheses of Patriotism. It is sad that the
title "Patriot" has become so hijacked and warped in perverse ways to
demand a singularity of thought, and a purity and loyalty to a specific
ideology. A true patriot is one who is willing to sacrifice ones own
self to ensure all people have the right of conscience, whether that means
people agree with you or not.What is being proposed here by the Tea
Party types is the furthest thing from patriotism.
@Mike in Sandy,Thank you for putting it succinctly in your 1:55
post.I used to consider myself a moderate conservative. Heck, I
even voted for Bush II. I don't think my political views have dramatically
shifted. But until the GOP's civil war ends by moderates regaining control
from the fanatics or the Tea Party splintering off on its own, I won't vote
for them outside of local politics (maybe not even then). The party is so
obsessed with casting out so-called RINOs, sneering at the poor and minorities,
and hoping that it's 1776 (or 1861) all over again that they are marching
themselves into irrelevance nationally. Based on national polls, I'm far
from alone in feeling that way.
ken12s,You complain that the people who shutdown the government to bring
attention to our growing government and out of control spending... cause us to
lose face and empower our enemies... Funny I remember Republicans saying the
same thing when Democrats in Congress threatened to defund the war on terrorism
during the Bush administration. Were you writing these same letters back then
complaining that Congress calling the President on anything is "empowering
our enemies"??I personally think Congress defunding the war on
terrorism and insisting the President give a deadline and promise to pull out of
Afghanistan with our tail between our legs... would tend to embolden our enemies
more than Lee's grand-standing.-Does a standoff on ObamaCare
really embolden our enemies?-Does Congress trying to defund the war on
terrorism embolden our enemies?Do you see my point?It's
that you are totally blind on the one that really WOULD embolden our enemies,
and pretend that this issue (which our real enemies don't care on iota
about) will give courage to our enemies.Congress challenges the
President on things. Obama isn't the first President to be challenged by
Mike in Sandy,Right on! Spoken like a true compassionate
conservative who has watched the republican party leave me on the side of the
road. The republican party is doing its best to push away anyone that is not
completely lock step with the tea party. At the current rate we are going, the
republicans will not even be able to hold onto the house even with its
gerrymandered districts that make it virtually impossible to lose in.
Many of us are not "liberals' just because we think Lee and Cruz are so
highly ineffective, and way out on Mars somewhere.It's that is
not my Grandfather's GOP. It and it's loose cannons have no idea how
to lead; only how to obstruct, criticize, lie, pad their own pockets and
@ Mike in Sandy. You think the GOP is like the Keystone Kops...? Have you been
asleep for a few months and missed the Obamacare mess, the NSA spying mess, the
IRS abuses mess, fast and furious mess, Benghazi cover-ups mess, et al? Who are
the real Keystone Kops creating mess after mess? All the GOP wants is some
honest answers and a little accountability and you think they are the Keystone
Kops? I suggest your ideology has blinded you to facts.
People who shutdown the government, cause the U.S. To lose face and empower
it's enemies, shock the economy and risk a global melt down are not called
patriots they are either unstable at best or more likely traitors. There are
better ways to disagree and change things!
Roland,Thank you for admitting harry and BO are NOT true patriots, since
they shut down the government to protect Obamacare.Mike in Cedar,Not surprised that a true liberal like you would wonder about the value of
free speech! But you speak of the uninformed – you are referring to BO
supporters, aren’t you. (statement – not a question)Steve Warren,Too funny!!! BO GOOD? for the economy, nation, and
especially the lower class! Oh please, my sides are aching! You know the
wealth gap has grown more during BO’s misadministration, don’t you?
Talk about uninformed!Kent,“trainwreck” is the
term given by –ITS AUTHOR!
Let met get this right. The liberals here are all for buying stuff now, and
passing on the debt obligation to their children and grand children. Owing
money puts you into servitude to others puts your security at risk and makes you
a servant to that debt and your debt holders.The liberals also have
no problem taking away freedom and imposing economic killing programs.Ok, so we have liberals defending and cheering the government growing in power
and selling us into slavery. At the same time they attack anybody who says that
we can't keep giving more power to the government and we can't keep
adding to our debts.Now you liberals are saying that if a person
actively works to limit the power of government and tries to cut the amount of
debt the nation is taking on, that person is somehow evil? It makes no sense.
Somebody fights to keep you safe, and you would rather have the insecurity of
"...You can't "rehabilitate" a true patriot. They will go to
their grave defending the cause of freedom. Thank you,...".Totally agree...with a few exceptions...You can't
rehabilitate a TRUE BELIEVER. They WILL go to their grave defending THEIR
definition of freedom.There...all better.
Nice diversity in the letters today.GOP is like the Keystone
Kops...carrying ladders in a crowded room, spinning around....what a mess.
IMO... You've drunk too much government coolaid when you think we need
re-education camps to rehab people with the audacity to disagree with the
President or his administration.The Tea party haters posting today
and people like Hatch sound like he have had too much coolaid and have lost
their appreciation for diversity of thought, and just attack anybody who
doesn't agree with the President or the party leaders and power brokers.I like that Lee will stick his neck out for what he believes in.We should not be punishing Congressmen or threatening re-education for
people guilty of not going along with the President. That's way to
gestapo for my liking.
Good point on the "train-wreck" phrase. It is similar to "tear up
their credit cards" or pass the debt "to the grandchildren". You
would think that a group trying to get rid of present government and the present
economy would have a complex plan instead of catch phrases. It is easier to spin
negativity and conspiracy by short phrases than to actually attempt to govern.
Senator Lee has proven that causing damage to the economy is not a viable
governmental plan. The tea party needs to be voted out before they cause more
Is this Mike Lee's great aunt?
How many times must I hear or read the silly parroted phrase "the train
wreck that is Obamacare"? Good grief, people, do you not have the vocabulary
to come up with something original, even if it's not accurate?What the polls are showing is that there is only one train wreck on the
horizon in America right now, and it is the divided, contentious, unimaginative
GOP. And guess who's driving the train? Ted Cruz, with his chief coal
shoveler, Mike Lee, right behind him. What they don't see is that the
bridge ahead of them fell apart because of lack of government funding for
infrastructure. No problem. Full steam ahead.I'm impressed,
though, that the Des News would find three letters to print on the same day that
say the same thing. Scary. Oh well, I guess it is Halloween this week.
@Mark B "The freedom to NOT have health insurance is something that needs
fervent defending?"Everyone think about this question. It
reveals something about the liberal mindset that you really need to know.Yes, our freedom does need fervent defending. If a man weighs his
options and chooses something other than health insurance, that is his choice to
make. He shouldn't be forced to buy it. A government that taxes us in this
manner has grown too large and intrusive.@Steve C. WarrenYou're not paying attention to the Obamacare rollout, I guess. We've
seen only the beginning. Big Government is being discredited before our eyes,
and its decline will take down Republicans and Democrats alike. Leaders like
Mike Lee who tried their best to avoid the disaster will do just fine.
Today's DesNews contains three letters strongly supporting Mike Lee and the
tea party. Frankly, that's terrific.What it suggests is that
people like Mike Lee, Ted Cruz and their backers haven't learned anything
either from the 2012 election or from the recent shutdown fiasco. This will
prove disastrous for the Republican Party in the 2014 election. It may mean that
President Obama, with a Democratic Congress, will be able to push through much
of his agenda in 2015 and 2016. This, of course, will be good for the country
and especially for lower- and middle-income Americans.
The problem with freedom is that freedom for some may mean oppression for
others. On the highway unlimited freedom to drive as one wishes can
be viewed as the loss of others freedom to be safe in their worlds.If the farmer and or processor has unlimited freedom to create and modify food
in any manner he pleases, consumers of that food may lose the freedom to live.
Honest, decent and humane people readily trade their personal
freedoms for the better freedoms for all people. Criminals oppose losing
personal freedoms that give them power and control over others. If
we are to honor and support the freedoms for people we have to control the
actions of criminals.
This uninformed letter tests the limits of my commitment to freedom of speech.
Until the Tea's or the Republicans declare the don't tread on me crowd
a third party, the real power of 10% of congress will not be apparent...no where
near what they thing they have!
The far right goes father to the right. The extreme right is a tight corer as
demonstrated by the universal put down of the tea party tantrum. The train-wreck
is the off the rails tea party.
Defending the cause of freedom? Thanks for the chuckle.
The freedom to NOT have health insurance is something that needs fervent
defending? No wonder the GOP is so fouled up these days.
Neither a true patriot nor a true conservative would try to destroy the world
economy to get what they want.
Patriot is not the same as foolhardy. You can be one without being the other.
Mike Lee did his best to save the country from the train wreck which is
Obamacare.Orrin Hatch did nothing, but he talked a lot.
Senator Hatch is a savvier politician than Mike Lee. He knew Republicans would
win the ACA battle by allowing it to die of its own accord. Senator Lee's
actions just strengthened the Democrats and the ACA. He had no chance of
winning on this one and only hurt Republicans.
Orrin Hatch isn't conservative enough?Oh yeah? Well... you
know who _also_ isn't conservative enough? Mike Lee!Nope,
Lee's not sufficiently conservative for my definition of conservatism.
He's just a RINO.What this country needs is a _truly_
conservative patriot.See how easy this game is to play?
A Senator take's this oath of office, administered by the President: "I
do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of
the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear
true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely,
without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and
faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So
help me God."Defending the Constitution is the first duty of a
Senator. Mike Lee did that. Orrin Hatch did not do that.
Mike Lee stands for the freedom of irresponsible persons to get health care from
the emergency room while those who were prudent enough to have insurance pay for
it; the freedome of insurance companies to deny coverage for pre-existing
conditions, and to cap coverage; and the freedom of right-wing politicians to
shut down the government and to cause the nation to default on its debt
payments. What a champion of freedom!
Mike Lee is certainly not a "true patriot". He's a grandstanding,
self-important feeder at the public trough.
Thank you , Rose, for your humor. I needed a good laugh to start my day, and
your comment provided it.
"for those who stand for freedom." Ha Ha! That's rich. I'd
say "for those who cannot accept defeat and the will of the American
People". Tea Party=Sour Grapes Party!Enjoy the next election
Wow! Orrin Hatch goes from being a 7 term Republican Senator from one of the
most Republican states in the nation, to being compared to a communist despot
with one statement. And the Deseret News has nothing better to print in
today's letters than (3) letters all saying essentially the same thing -
Orrin Hatch is a traitor, communist sympathizer, non-patriot, just like the
pre-revolutuionary British subjects etc, and Mike Lee, who used his lack of
understanding of how laws are passed and funded to cause a $24 billion deficit
in just two weeks time (of course with the help of his new big brother Ted
Cruz), is a true patriot and "can't be rehabilitated."I
really do miss living in Utah. It was so entertaining.