Mark,You don't provide any support for your statement. If you go
back and read my previous comment, you will see that I do provide 2 pertinent
facts that support my assertion. Explain those facts away please.
I sure wish we had more men like Mike Lee & Ted Cruz in Washington. Thanks
Mike & TedI totally agree with the Patriot of Cedar Hills, UtI
am a patriot in Spanish Fork
". . . if the strategy had no chance of succeeding, harmed so many people,
and had the potential to destroy the U.S. (and possibly the world)
economy."Destroy the world economy? This? Really? Where do you
guys get this extreme paranoia? Oh, wait. Talk radio. Right? ".
. . about 50% of the population will be seeing some sort of subsidy. . . I
can't claim to know the exact numbers here, but I am willing to bet that
50% is not far off the mark."Yeah, you're right, you
don't know the numbers. And you are very far off the mark. Kirk, you realize that far before the ACA was even a bill insurance premiums
were steeply rising don't you? I think there is a collective
amnesia that happens in this country. For some reason people have a very hard
time remembering back even a few years.
The end does not justify the means if the strategy had no chance of succeeding,
harmed so many people, and had the potential to destroy the U.S. (and possibly
the world) economy.
pragmatistferlifeWe have had no new medical issues, no new children added,
no change of address. Nothing has changed but my monthly premiums. When you
talk about "majority or premiums" you are talking about group plans
through large employers. Where the employer is paying at least 50% of the
premium each month, so yes, the increase seems much smaller. other
self-employed friends of mine have seen very similar rates increases.And actually, about 50% of the population will be seeing some sort of subsidy.
The Kaiser Family Foundation found that the average individual plan costs
$5,615. Under the ACA, subsidies are available for families spending over 9.5%
of their annual income on health insurance. That means that any family making
less than $50,000 annually will qualify for subsidies. I can't claim to
know the exact numbers here, but I am willing to bet that 50% is not far off the
To the Utah voters who live in Utah County. You get what you pay for. You
elected him. You live with him and the embarrassment he causes you.
Here's the thing. Mr. Smith goes to Washington is a MOVIE. Jimmy Stewart
played a FICTIONAL character. The real life famous filibusters of Strohm
Thurmond, who I think holds the record at 24 hours as he tried to stop some
Civil Rights legislation and of course Ted Cruz, though his speech technically
wasn't a filibuster, weren't quite as "magical."
Neither Ted Cruz nor Mike Lee are Jimmy Stewart. Even now, they're saying
"it was worth it." They lost nothing. They lost no money. They still are
heroes among their cronies.It isn't for them to say it was worth it,
because they haven't paid a price. Millions of other people paid and
some of them paid a terrible price, but to these two arrogant congressmen,
'it was worth it.'Really.Why don't we ask those who
lost because of their careless actions whether it was worth it?
Fall on your sword over principle. At the end of the day, you're still
Mr. Graves, I don't know the particulars of your individual situation,
however, your experience of having small increases for 9 to 10 years, and then
having premium increases of 200% since 2010 is truly an anomaly, and makes no
sense relative to the ACA given the fact that the majority of premium increases
across the country for 2014 are smaller than ever. Also personal anecdotal
experiences are not at all indicative of a national program. Secondly, your taxes will not increase even if 50% of the population gets
subsidies, (which is absolutely false in the first place), unless we are foolish
enough to repeal the medical device tax. The ACA, subsidies and all, requires
no increases in personal income taxes. The program is self funding. My advice to you is to go to the exchange and find better coverage. I think
you're being taken advantage of by an unscrupulous insurance agent.
Clearly a fools' errand, which is an excellent comment about Lee, Cruz,
Chaffetz, and the others on the far right who pushed it.
I'm proud of Sen Lee! I wish more Congressmen/women would work for the
American people. I'm afraid our country is finished. Been to the grocery
store lately? No inflation? Yea, just listening to our President/Congress--no
problem. Let's just keep increasing the National Debt...yea, right! We are
too far in debt at this point to see a recovery in the near future and the way
the vote just went, looks to me like we're going to have to continue the
same game in a few months. Come on folks! See it for what it is. The only way
our country can come out of this mess is to STOP spending! I figure we need to
stop all foreign aid (foreign countries hate us). Stop freebies... Let those in
need work for what they receive. God already figured that out, just allow those
who are hungry to glean the fields. I'm sure the farmers won't mind,
it rots anyways. Let those who need assistance clean the streets, parks, etc and
feel good about themselves. Many more ideas but no more room to write. We need
to change the way we spend!
Ted and Mike are ignoramuses who should be made to pay for their childish
behavior and the pain and damage they caused the nation.
If you understand that irony can convey the point well, read this quote from the
New Yorker:.....His eyes welling up with tears, Sen. Cruz said,
“I embarked on this crusade with a simple goal: to keep affordable health
care out of the reach of ordinary, hard-working Americans. And while this battle
was lost, that dream—that precious, cherished dream—will live
on.”Reflecting on the government shutdown and near-default
that almost touched off a global financial apocalypse, Sen. Cruz said,
“We’ll give it another try in a few weeks.”Sen.
Cruz’s closest ally, Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) also spoke reverently of the
shutdown, calling it “the most expensive Civil War reënactment in
history.”“Unfortunately, once again, the wrong side
won,” he said.Over in the House of Representatives, Speaker
John Boehner (R-Ohio) congratulated his colleagues on the deal to resolve the
shutdown, telling reporters, “This proves that when we work together, we
can come up with a totally unsatisfactory solution to a completely unnecessary
Senator Lee is not a tea party candidate. He is a career Washington lobbyist
and lawyer. He is a product of the very system he rails against. That should be
obvious to everyone, but when you get your "news" from Hannity and Beck
you are easily deceived. The fact that Lee took his salary during the shutdown
when Hatch and Matheson did not proves where his heart is...The
Republicans keep picking the wrong battles to fight and they fight them in the
wrong ways. That party will be out of existence in 10 years if they do not clean
up their back yard....
The narrow-minded tunnel vision of the republicans never ceases to amaze me.
Is there even a question?A fools errand by a landslide.
Heroic effort. These liberals would be worshipping King George if they lived in
Definite a Heroic stand, especially with all of those liberals,who claim to be
republican in Utah but think like a democrat. I support Mike Lee 100% and wish
we had more politicians like him and Ted Cruz. Mike is doing exactly what he
promise to do when he ran for the office, to stand up for the Constitution which
seems to be very unpopular among the liberals of the day especially those who
have chose to work for what has become our nations enemy the Government.
There is a lot of desperate spinning with no substance above. Maybe the tea
party supporters should try a tactic other than name calling, conspiracy
theories and shut down plans to defund a funded law.
@pragmatistferlifeI must rebut your assertion regarding who is being
negatively impacted by the ACA. I am self-employed. I have carried
private (non-group) health insurance on myself and my family for 14 years. Over
the first 11 years it increases by small increments every few years. Since the
ACA passed my monthly premiums have nearly doubled. The information I am seeing
from others says it is likely to double again in the next 2 years.Does that sound affordable to you?Then there's the other side
of the "Affordability" issue. The estimate is that nearly 50% of the
population will receive some sort of subsidy when purchasing health insurance.
That means that We The People will be paying to subsidize insurance premiums.Does that sound affordable to you?
60 percent of America is in the middle, slightly to the left or slightly to the
right but perfectly capable of getting along and compromising on most issues.
20% are loony on the right and 20% are loony on the left. Does anyone else
think we need a new party which will disavow both extremes and work together.
Remember the Whigs, they lost track of the middle and are lost to history to be
replaced by the Republican party one of the founders of which was Abraham
Lincoln. Does anyone think Lincoln could find a home in today's Republican
party. Jefferson founded the Democratic party, I don't know how well he
would be received by the Democrats either.
I wonder if the people, invoking Washington and other Founding Fathers to
justify Mike Lee's approach, have done enough reading on the subject. I
would suggest starting with James Madison's Notes on the Constitution. The
Notes make clear that the Constitution was a compromise document, and the
leaders in producing it had common sense, in addition to learning.
Interesting that some bash our elected reps for doing what they said they would
do if elected. If we are not going to stand on the principles that we say we
believe in, then it doesn't matter if you call yourself a Democrat,
Republican, Conservative Liberal..... If we are only concerned with being on the
winning side and going against what we "say" we believe, then of what
worth is the Constitutional principles this nation was founded on. We know what
eventually happens to any nation that has gone down this path of fiscal
irresponsibility, not to mention the moral decay among the people- not just the
government, after all "the people" elect and keep them in power. A
majority of voters are to blame-- not just the politicians.
Hooray for spending!!!Now we can get back to the task of bankrupting
America. The 2 week break has been brutal!
Mike Lee is what happens when we have low turnout in the neighborhood caucuses.
We need to make sure there is high turnout next time to see what the people of
Utah really want in a senator. We need to seek diligently for "honest men
and wise men". Mike Lee may be honest, but he clearly is not wise. A few I
can think of are Jon Huntsman, Mike Leavitt, and Gary Herbert. Even Mitt Romney
could fit the bill; with his popularity in the state, he would rally plenty of
supporters to turnout. We need to start the conversation now, and build the
momentum for whoever we want to replace Mike Lee. By 2016, it will be high time
to bring Mike Lee home and release him with a vote of thanks.
There's a point here that keeps popping up that Democrats need to admit and
be proud of and Republicans need to quit distorting or understand. It's
the affordable part of the Affordable Care Act. Affordable
doesn't mean everyone's insurance premiums will decrease. In fact
some will not only go up but will (using Republican language) sky rocket. Those
are the people who now don't have health insurance but are now required to
buy it. Their whole health care experience will change. Rather than just
showing up at an ER in distress and putting their hands in the air when asked
for payment, they are now going to be required to deal with coverage,
deductibles, payments etc. just like the rest of us. Affordable
means there are plans available and assistance available to make the premium
associated with their coverage doable. This is a good thing Dems.
So know when the Republicans on this thread start ranting about health care
costs skyrocketing for the poor they really are simply ranting about those who
previously didn't participate in the cost side of the health care equation.
We all cried when the Republican's voted for the Trillion dollar
bail-out.We all cried when Senators McCain and Bennett consistently
compromised conservative values to the Left.We all cried when Good Old
Party Republicans conducted "business as usual."We all wanted
change, even if it meant sacrifice and pain....Then the pain hits,
and everyone shrinks and cries even more....We didn't elect
Senator Lee to go and conduct "business as usual."We elected him
to take a stand. He is doing that, and guess what? It's not popular, and
it's painful.Well I, for one am tired of popularity in politics. The right thing, is rarely the popular thing.Be a leader, and stand up
for America. ...Lee didn't shut the government down. The
government shut itself down decades ago. These crooks don't know how
to use our money responsibly, and someone needs to stop them.Way to go
Senator Lee! That's why we elected you. We lost today, but we took a stand.
More leaders will rally to your side.
There are reports of staff members encouraging Mr. Obama to allow the shutdown
as a political tactic to further divide the Republican Party. 2014 elections are
around the corner and such fracturing could lead to a Democratic win of the
House.This president was largely aloof to negotiations these past weeks until
recently. Suddenly, the big boys come together with a behind-closed-doors
compromise bill, mostly unread yet, passed much like Obamacare. We, the People,
need more backbone, and principles, then perhaps we can get more help from
Heaven ~ we certainly need it.
Ask the businesses that lost thousands, or even millions, and their employees,
who were laid off or hours cut to nothing, whether they think it was worth it
for some self-aggrandizing egotistical fools to take a hammer to their
livelihoods, while those so-called representatives lost nothing. Except maybe
the next election, with any poetic justice.These congressmen are perfectly
willing to throw us all under the bus, just so they can get what they want.They've wasted untold days and weeks and months of time wrangling over
the healthcare law, while letting important and even crucial government business
fall by the wayside. While they have quite fine healthcare plans of their own,
which we pay for. We pay for their health insurance whether or not we can afford
any ourselves.It's too bad those businesses that lost money
can't sue them for it. They deserve some kind of negative consequences for
what they did. This action was planned months ago by the big money they
really work for.
Fools' errand, hands down.I think one good thing might have
come out of this, however. Cruz & Lee have managed to place their political
careers in jeopardy.
George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Ezra Taft Benson would have stood right
beside Mike Lee and Ted Cruz. I guess that makes them extremists on a fools
errand. Washington and Jefferson could not be elected dog catcher in 2013
This only proves one thing...Romney (who isn't man enough to carry Cruz and
Lee's water) was completely wrong about the 47%. It's more like 57%!!
57% with their hand out waiting for santa clause to bring them their gifts.
Everyone waiting for the government to start up again so they can get back to
their lives. How pathetic!! Dependency and class envy, and forced redistribution
are the embarrassing scourge of our nation.
Tea Partiers are so cute when they lose.
When this comes up again, the Obamacare will be in affect for those that can
afford to buy that type of insurance. It doesn't decrease the debt nor
provide the care that the 19,000,000 were already getting under the normal
process.These Senators could have done a better job of PR for
themselves and the GOP. Even Congressman Matheson got involved with the process
but realized he has to fend for himself as the President's party of
choice.It will be interesting to see what happens in 3 months when
it will be a government shutdown for the ice and snow waiting to fall on DC.
My first comment was denied...So...Let's try...mike and ted took a heroic stand...See...it's
easy...Let me add...All politicos should hope to be just
like mike and ted.Perfect.
reckless is the word that comes to mind.
I believe that history will show this was a pivotal turning point. If the
Republicans had held their ground, our nation would have had a future. As
it is, the Republican party is now dead. A new party will have to rise up. In
the meantime, we will have at least 20 years of Democratic dominance. 20 Years
of socialist agenda running unchecked. 20 years of federal government growth
and 20 years of state government decline.
This was not the time nor the way to unravel and defund Obamacare! These guys
are legislators after all and when laws are bad, you pass new ones. Not hold us
all hostage. These two myopic martyrs chose the wrong way to make their case and
millions paid for it in lost wages and a major hit to the economy. That's
not representing your fellow countrymen. These showed their radical side and
willingness to throw the rest of us under the bus, instead of waiting to see the
effects of Obamacare and then change it. That's not leadership nor good
representation when you are fighting for a principle without a hope. Stand on
principle, ok, but when something can be done about it. The Executive branch
and the Senate had the upper hand from the beginning and weren't going to
be moved. There was no possibility for negotiation on Obamacare. Save it for
2014 and elect those who can change it - and send the Tea Party home. Way too
arrogant and self-serving for me!
Lee and his ally Cruz are the best thing that ever happened - for Democrats.
Where's Sam Granato when you need him?
Depends upon your political views. The progressives and leftists, who dominate
the media, politics, government bureaucracies and agencies, will despise them.
Those of us who recognize that our national (and local) government
has become monstrous and overbearing and controlling regard them as heroes. I
wish there were more of them.
To all you liberals who blame Lee and Cruz for the shutdown, exactly how did
they do it? Of multiple funding bills sent to the senate, Harry
Reid only allowed a vote on 2, and the senate passed them both. Lee and Cruz
were never a deciding vote. The house passed a bunch of funding
bills that Lee and Cruz never got to vote on because Harry tabled them. Lee and
Cruz impact - ZERO.The president refused to negotiate with anyone or
give an inch on anything. Lee and Cruz are not the president, and had no say
there.So again, how are Lee and Cruz responsible for your missed
vacations, mental anguish from the shutdown, or whatever else you are
claiming?By the way, the 2013 shutdown isn't Bush's fault
either. If you think otherwise, I would be very entertained to hear your
thinking as well. (Insanity is fascinating.)
Time for us Utahns to wake up and realize we have made a serious mistake in
electing Mike Lee to the US Senate. We don't need radical, extremists in
Washington the likes of Senator Lee. What we do need are men and women of sound
judgment and intellectual capability to help craft innovative solutions to our
national debt crisis. How pathetic that this ill conceived strategy promoted by
Senator Lee has resulted in billions of dollars in damage to the US economy.
How many individuals and families have suffered over this senseless waste of
time and money? Well, we need to make sure we don't give our elected
official another opportunity to represent us so poorly come the next election.
Mike Lee does a lot of talking about the Constitution; here is a basic he
missed: It takes two houses of Congress to make and change law. When your
party controls only one house, extreme positions are never going to carry the
day. Be more realistic. Be more strategic. Try to think of measures that can
actually gain support, instead of wasting time on yes, a fool's errand.
You'll get more done for the people of Utah, I promise.
Fools' errand. Get the apostrophe right.
All I know is we're borrowing a trillion more dollars to pay off a 17
trillion dollar debt. Who's the fool?
Bob K, what is wrong with:Month 1- Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas,
California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, and Georgia;Month 2-
Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine,
Maryland;Month 3- Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi,
Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada,New Hampshire, New Jersey; Month
4- New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon,
Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina;Month 5- South Dakota,
Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin,
Wyoming.Then the system would be able to handle it!!! The bugs
would be worked out and the two states with senators making the big fuss (Texas
and Utah) wouldn't have the messy introduction to complain about in their
reasoning. And after California and Alabama had the first shot at it I doubt
there'd be anything the feds wouldn't be prepared to handle in getting
people enrolled. Doesn't 5 months of enrollment (limited to
one month for each and every state) for the entire country make more sense than
suddenly opening it up to everyone on a single day? Think about it....
I will have to reluctantly say that the Dem-controlled news media will never let
the general American public stop hearing about this for a long time. The GOP
will be a pariah for many years to come. Get used to hearing President Hillary
for 8 more years, after this last Obama term. Mark my words. Thanks Mike.
Cruz for president. Wait he is a Canadian citizen born in Canada. Doesn't
seem to be a problem to the far right who are convinced Obama was born in Kenya.
What a bunch of hypocrites people are.
The two largest tragedies (among many) in the sad situation of the last couple
of weeks are that: 1) left alone Obamacare would have imploded with all
attention and responsibility to the Democrats who orchestrated it--instead the
thoughts and attention of not just Americans but the world are on the Republican
party and 2) while it is hard to imagine the House going to the Democrats in the
next election, more shenanigans like those of the last few days it is a real
possibility. The showboating and ego-stroking by the supposedly
"heroic" tea-party favorites serve only themselves--not the government
or the American people in general, and certainly not our grandchildren, in
specific, who, years from now, will pay for our follies.
@atl134 You ask why the stock market went up as a result of this increase
passing.With the increase in the spending limit the FED can continue
to print money, $85 billion per month every month, and purchase bonds and
mortgage backed securities, shifting this junk asset from banks to the taxpayer.
If the spending limit was not increased the FED could not print more money.The minute the FED stops the money printing you will see a sharp drop in
the stock market. The money printing and zero interest loans to banks is the
only thing propping up the stock market; the rich getting richer and the
taxpayer is expected to pay.The stock market is no more an economic
indicator than the craps tables in Las Vegas.
And the winner is - Fools Errand!
"ThomasJefferson" and "The Rock" get my votes for the BEST
comments of the night!If I had 6 or 8 screen names (like most of the
liberal commenters)I would submit multiple "likes"! Since I'm not
one to "cheat" the system, I'll just stay being only "one
person"!Keep up the excellent comments guys!
We have a spineless bunch of RINOs in the House and Senate. The opportunity to
fix our budget deficit and out of control spending has just been weakened by
this compromise and foisting on the American people the false concept that the
sky is falling if we don't raise the debt limit. I'm not optimistic
about the ability of the current ruling class to lead this country.
@YAlum..... if your tactic achieved you nothing, and you embolden your
opposition, and you fracture your own side..... what have you achieved? What
these two have done is made names for themselves, at the expense of the rest of
the party. I have no doubt that these two did well to reinforce
their basis in their own districts, but what they did do was provide a 2014
battle cry to the other side.... that electing more Cruz's and the like is
just too dangerous. They have provided a new rallying point for the left....
Obama didn't like the Defense of Marriage act so he refused to enforce
it.Ditto on our immigration laws and welfare to work. All the law of the
land and he just ignored them. A judge ruled that Obama's moratorium on
drilling in the gulf was unconstitutional and Obama ignored it. Obama records
all your electronic communications and photographs every envelop passing through
the post office in violation of Federal Law. Obama's IRS targets groups for
political purposes and sends an ambassador to Benghazi with insufficient
security, then cuts it when he asks for more. Ambassador Chris Stephens is the
first US Ambassador killed in 20 years, on Obama's watch.Obama
drives the national debt up to $17 trillion.Obama Care is costing people
their jobs and their insurance. Companies are going out of business.Obama is burning the constitution right before our eyes.How did so
many LDS people who are supposed to save the constitution when it hangs by a
thread come to believe that Cruz and Lee are the bad guys just for standing up
to Obama?Lord help us all.
They have earned themselves permanent notoriety.
re: RedneckLefty I don't disagree. But, this type of
histrionics & theater of the absurd is better Monday nights of USA &
Thursdays on Spike TV. For the uninitiated, I'm referring to wrestling.
Mike Lee and Ted Cruz: Heroic in every sense of the word. These men were elected
to DO SOMETHING to stop the out-of-control spending in our country. They are
courageous and are true patriots. They are the John Adams and Thomas Jeffersons
of our day. John McCain and Lindsey Graham are a joke! What do they ever
accomplish? Nothing! Just blabber and rub shoulders with the WH.B
Peterson: The national parks in Utah are all open, so full steam ahead for your
family! Interesting that all the national parts were shut down with
steel barricades, locks, and fancy signs, but the Mexican border is still wide
open! Interesting that Amber Alert was shut down, but Michelle's website is
still open. Watch and see what expensive vacation is next for the first family
w/o any press coverage. What is the real joke in this country? The
uninformed citizenry who play with their cell phones, some of whom receive food
stamps, and welfare, etc. etc., more than they know what is really transpiring
in our country. Insanity!
HIstory will prove that Senator Mike Lee is a hero, -- ahead of his time. We,
the people, are the fools! We talk about how awful our out of control
government spending is. We deride those who have spent our country into 17
trillion dollars of debt. We wonder why we don't have elected officials
who have the courage to stand up and fix it. And when someone stands up and
speaks out, -- Mike Lee, Cruz, Paul, Rubio, -- we consider them fringe and fools
and trouble makers. Senator Mike Lee is a hero! The fight has not
ended and thankfully Senator Lee will still be in Washington to fight for sound
re:KathyAs atl134 pointed out the Senate actually did vote on a House bill
and then voted to "table" subsequent House bills.Not only
did the House not bring up a Senate bill--the Republicans on the House Rules
Committee (which act as gatekeepers of nearly all the House legislation) changed
the rules (Sept 30) to prevent any vote on any Senate bill.
Fool's errand! Bob Bennett - please primary Mike Lee next time!! We need
your maturity in the Senate. (A few years back I couldn't imagine I would
ever say that!)
Is it a "fools errand" to stand up to the continual encroachment of big
government in our lives?People are losing their jobs,and getting
their hours cut continually the closer we get to Obamacare.Is it a
"fools errand" to ask that our fellow are helped to get a job BEFORE
they get free/subsidized health insurance?I suppose liberals are
always wondering why MORE Americans just don't giveup/givein to their
myriad social engineering schemes.
Fool's Errand! However, if we could send Lee and the rest of the
obstructionists to China we could shut down their government and thereby help
the US economy. Lee needs to find a good private sector job and leave well
When the dust settles, more than a few Republicans will wonder if Cruz and Lee
are getting money under the table from Democratic operatives. The
Republican brand absorbed a great deal of damage, to the point where GOP
governors were aggressively distancing themselves from the DC Republicans.So, voting Republicans, ask yourself - if the Democrats retake the House
in 2014, are Cruz and Lee heroes? Or fools?
I stand with Senators Ted Cruz, Mike Lee and Rand Paul and support them 100%.
Don't believe the nonsense being doled out by the main stream media. This
only affected (effected?) 17% of the entire federal government. Where will your
disapproval of their actions be when your health insurance premiums skyrocket
and bread is $7.00 a loaf because the Feds are still printing money?
To call it a fool's errand is being too nice. This was a catastrophe. The
GOP could have spent all of October mocking the rollout of Obamacare -- instead,
no one is talking about how horrible that has been. This episode has been
nothing more than self-serving grandstanding for Lee, who has been using it to
raise money for his reelection bid in 3 years. I have been getting e-mails
almost daily from his campaign giving "updates" and asking for money.
Well, I'm not giving him a dime. He has done his best to throw the GOP
under the bus, and he's proud of it! Lee and Cruz live in a tea-party echo
chamber, and they don't listen to or care about the rest of the party, let
alone the rest of the country. I'm supporting ABL -- "Anybody But
Lee!" in 2016.
All along I thought the Republican's would cave in and they did. Cruz and
Lee never quit trying to save our country. I'm thankful we have two real
American's in the Senate. It will take time, but if we replace McCain and
Graham and a few others, those who are left will begin to have courage.
We can certainly categorize efforts by Cruz and Lee to be a "fools
errand" - as much as any ideological stand might be called such. They did
what they believed their constituents had tasked them to do, seemingly a rare
thing in the current political environment. Our political system is considered
to be a representative republic. The American people should not be shocked
when, on some few notable and rare occasions, it actually functions as intended.
@Kathy"the senate would not bring it up "Yes they did.
Remember when Cruz did his not-filibuster long speech thing? The bill that was
on the clock for those hours was the House bill you say they didn't bring
up. Once Cruz was done they brought it up, voted on an Amendment, passed it, and
then sent it back to the House where Boehner did nothing with it.
Question to all those who think that Cruz et al were doing the right thing for
the economy... why'd the stock markets go up in sync with a deal being
Heroic- they seemingly accomplished nothing. However, they are keeping the focus
on Obamacare, and the nightmare it is. Not too long ago a majority of Americans
were opposed to it. Now suddenly people don't want to fight against the law
that WILL change our country, economy and how we are governed. All for the
worst. I don't understand the crowd that claims to be in favor of freedom,
but is just willing to be kicked around over and over again just because they
don't want the Grand Canyon closed anymore.Their efforts have also
revealed an ugly side of the GOP. Orrin Hatch and those like him are a disgrace.
Time for them to be gone. We should be seeking out and supporting people like
Cruz and Lee instead of telling them they are on a "fools errand."
We are a 2-party nation so we can deliberate. It's a national tragedy that
the Republican Party has been unable to withstand a hostile take-over. Now it
seems we need 4 parties so that collaboration is required. The scariest thing
to me is the observation by some that our Constitutional system can no longer
function well-enough to resolve problems we must. Sadly, much of that is that
we have outlawed 'ear marks', such that party leaders have no currency
for bringing ideology into line. That function has been, again sadly, relegated
to the Super-Pacs. We are all sinners, but we have to govern ourselves to be a
democracy. Not to mention that we are no longer seen to set an example to the
rest of the world, no matter how we might insist we are. Mike Lee would be
better if he'd ever dug ditches, pumped gas, or had some other job to
support him. He seems so 'entitled'.
The Senator from Arizona also mentioned "wacko birds".
Veracity: You really think these folks brought attention to the fact that
the U.S. spends more than they make. Clinton had the first federal surplus since
the 60's. It's been an issue for decades, that's been published
ad nausea. ACA has major flaws and holes, but these men suspended the democratic
process and hurt many Americans families, for a "fight" that wasn't
winnable to begin with. It's like using your wife and kids to stand up to
the bully. Who will get hurt in the scenario?
Fools Errand. Without this debacle, we may have been discussing the problems
with implementing the ACA. Instead we were discussing government shutdown and a
possible default. Absolutely brilliant move by the Tea Partiers. (I say that
with as much sarcasm as I can muster.)
Obama wanted this to be as painful as possible. Therefore he could make the
most people suffer by closing national parks. I'm sure they spent more
money trying to keep people out than it would letting people in. Why
couldn't the national parks be open without someone to man the gates?
Because that wouldn't be painful for the American public. The Democrats
refuse to even compromise or negotiate. If the shoe was on the other foot, the
democrats would be blaming the republicans for not being willing to compromise.
Seems to me we could get along alot better without so much government.
Fools errand. This was the exact outcome everyone predicted. ACA is still law.
The only thing these folks did was hurt and anger American families. I think the
Republican Party will receive the brunt of the backlash come next major
election. This was a huge mistake.
It was actually Obama and the Senate that "caused" the 17% shutdown.
The house Cruz, Lee et al passed bills to cover everything but the ACA---the
senate would not bring it up and Obama would not sign them. So actually Obama
and the Senate chose the shutdown. BTW Prohibition, Fugative Slave act were
overturned in time. Yeah Cruz and Lee you brought it to the attention of the
It is crazy that people think standing up and trying to stop the spending in
Washington is a "fools errand".We are heading towards a
cliff.We are going to crash and burn. Obamacare is taking us there
even faster.Totally corrupt government and self serving people
everywhere I look in government.Bunch of blind people.You wouldn't have defended the Alamo either. Thank goodness someone is
willing to take a stand.
"Trying to save American taxpayers from trillions of more debt and an out of
control government healthcare train wreck is only a fool's errand in a
fool's mind."Tactics matter.Saving money is not
the issue. Saving money at someone else's expense.... 800,000 workers
directly, 100s of thousands indirectly, that is like cutting your hand off
because you have a broken finger. The rule of thumb is business development
where more than one party is involved is that if any partner in the deal comes
away feeling they won, the deal will fail. Every side needs to feel some of the
cost of getting a deal together. These two, Lee in particular, have shown he
has no grasp of fiscal responsibility. It shows in his professional work, and
it shows in his personal financial dealings too.Stepping back from
all-or-nothingness is the only path forward, which neither seem to have learned.
Well, the same ol', same ol' Republicans caved in to the big spenders
again today. So we're still on the merry-go-round for another month or two.
I'm glad to see a few REAL conservatives stand on principle.
Foolish and costly, it cost billions of dollars in lost revenue.
Fools!!! If it weren't for the destruction he helped unleash, it would be
funny. Of course, being in the bubble he is (and those who follow tea party
media), he won't even know about what a horrible politician he is!
Please don't put down fools by including these two with them.
Here's what the Houston Chronicle had to say this week about their
endorsement of TX Senator Ted Cruz:"When we endorsed Ted Cruz in
last November's general election, we did so with many reservations and at
least one specific recommendation - that he follow Hutchison's (former
Senator Kay Bailey Huchison) example in his conduct as a senator.Obviously, he has not done so. Cruz has been part of the problem in specific
situations where Hutchison would have been part of the solution."Can we expect the same from Deseret News regarding Mike Lee? Newspapers, like DN, which have largely abandoned their job of informing and
educating--using verifiable facts, help create a very dysfunctional, irrational
and misinformed public.
For those who call this a fools errand at least these gentlemen brought
attention to the fact that we spend more than we take in, that Obama care is
poorly put together, that if things do not change we are headed on a fools
journey...for those who say a fools errand also beleive the cow really did jump
over the moon.
"Were the efforts of Mike Lee, Ted Cruz a fool's errand or a heroic
stand?"Are we voting? Definitely a fool's errand. I side on
this one with the majority of Utahns and the majority of Republicans in
Congress. Foolish, obstructionist, unnecessary, etc. etc. If the GOP
doesn't find someone to run against Lee in 2016 it will be handing the seat
to the Dems on the proverbial silver platter. (Would that be bad??)
It was a noble but futile effort, I think both of them knew it was futile, but I
think they scored some political points for their next move, especially if/when
obamacare comes crashing down.By the way, you can tell that a bunch
of these comments on here are some sort of coordinated effort, probably some
shady political money. 12 comments each with about 12 likes.Look at
the one saying obamacare was written by republicans, what is this preemptive
hand-wringing? lol it's called obamacare, even the stupidest voters
won't believe that obamacare was written by republicans.
Fools all around. Lee and Cruz and the Tea Party for their futile stand and
divisive politics. Congress for their complete inability to compromise on
anything and their complete and utter lack of regard for our children and
grandchildren by saddling them with a mountain of debt (both Rs and Ds own this
one) Obama for failed leadership by not bringing the two sides together and for
not vetoing the crazy budgets passed under his watch (wasn't he the guy who
called Bush unpatriotic for the debt Bush put on the books?) But the biggest
fools are the America people who, in 2012, re-elected all of these morons and
sent them back to Congress. and the White House. 2014 prediction
- more of the same. We, the people, get exactly what we deserve.
Best part is, we get to watch these fools do it all over again in January!Talk about kicking the can down the road...
Ted Cruz and Mike Lee are going to become the head of the Republican party
because of their principled stand against Obamacare. What we are witnessing now
is the end of the old Republican Party establishment. A new Republican party
will emerge because there are enough people in this country who are sick of the
games our politicians play that they will vote them out of office. This will be
the last terms for the old Republican establishment types such as John McCain,
Orrin Hatch, and Lindsay Graham. The people of this country are beginning to
push back against big government liberals and it will begin to show in the 2014
midterms. When people realize how utterly disastrous Obamacare will be, the
economy still sinking, high unemployment, and continued foreign policy
disasters, they will turn against these liberals in mass.
Fools errand, costly and destructive. I'm not in favor of the ACA, but the
strategy was flawed from the start. Sorry Mike, I think its going to be a one
and done for you.
“Principled” – Yes. “Courageous” – Yes.
“Foolish” – Absolutely. Obama gave up nothing and got
everything he wanted including setting the stage for the Republicans to strap on
suicide vests again in 90 days. A couple more iterations of this next year and
the Republicans will be voted into a minority in the mid-term elections. It
takes principles, courage and some strategic intelligence to be successful in
the US Government. The Tea Party Republicans continue to get out maneuvered by
Reid and Obama and just drag the rest of the party down with it. It’s a
shame because I like most of their platform.
How is the deal a compromise? Democrats got everything they wanted and
republicans got nothing. Fools errand, but that is because all our
politicians are fools. Only the people are more foolish for voting for
congressmen that promise them what they want and then the people end up getting
Once America gets a good taste of Obamacare implementation and it's far
reaching impact, Senators Lee and Cruz will be seen as heroes for their
efforts.In the long run (not even that far off, really) Lee will be
justified ten times over.
How long until we can kick Lee out.I think he has a policy point,
but this "stand" only demonstrates what I thought when I first met Lee:
a lightweight diplomat whose shallow legal experience does not translate to the
serious work of governing the nation or working in the senate. Anyone can just
say no all the time, a true politician can use creativity to build a consensus
and say yes today to get to no over time. Lee lacks this creativity
and vision as he demonstrated in this battle.If the other senate
republicans were smart they would throw Lee and Cruz even further under the bus
than they already have and try to distance themselves from these antics.
Time will vindicate those who tried to stop ACA.It will join Medicaid,
Medicare and Social Security as unsustainable social programs. All are good
ideas on the surface, but cannot be managed.Proper accounting techniques
would expose them as unfunded liabilities far greater than what is reported. Our
$17 trillion debt figure, frightening as it is, is far less than the actual
liability of these programs...and ACA is plopped in right on top of the existing
mess.To paraphrase Churchill, we have stumbled over the truth and picked
ourselves up as if nothing has happened.This effort by Lee and Cruz was
crude and hamfisted...and doomed to fail politically; but it is an effort to
change direction, one that is sorely needed.
Complete waste of time and money. Obstructive foolish conduct like this would
get a person fired from a private company, and ought to get Mike Lee permanently
retired from office.
Heroic Stand, no doubt!Utahns overwhelmingly opposed obamacare- all
along the way. We elected Mike Lee to represent us, our values, and our ideas.
Why are we condemning a man who actually went to Washington to do what we asked
him to do? If you are criticizing him, think for a minute. Would you rather that
he just fall in line with the rest of the republicans who are not doing what
they campaigned to do? Even if you disagree with his politics, you can at least
respect him for standing and fighting (in the face of adversity from everywhere)
for what he said he would stand and fight for.If you are a
republican criticizing good men like Ted Cruz and Mike Lee, what do you stand
for? What differentiates you from the democrats? There is no difference these
days...at least there wasn't until these men with integrity decided to
speak up. Was it a waste in my opinion? No- for the same reason I
don't believe Abraham wasted his time when he took Isaiah to the
sacrificial alter. Now we truly know his heart and I will stand by him till the
Some of the posters here sound like the WalMart shoppers in LA when they found
out that there was no limit on their EBT cards. woohoo. Let's spend some
money, who cares that it is not ours.I for one am grateful that
there are some in government that know that we cannot continue to spend money
that we do not have and are trying to stop it.You are aware that the
FED is still printing $85 billion dollars a month and buying the junk assets
from banks, shifting the risk and payment to the taxpayer. This increase in the
spending limit will allow that to continue.Maybe those not apposed
to the spending increase limit can enlighten me as to how this is good for the
country. I apparently am unable to see what you do.
I tallied the comments and Likes. Lee had 4 favorable comments and 19 likes.
There were 14 unfavorable comments and 85 likes, and this in the Deseret News.
I expect the Trib would be nearly 100% negative. My question is this. How
could this bozo get elected and will you do it again?
I for one am pleased with Ted Cruz and Mike Lee. They are not fools. They are
principled individuals who took a stand on Obamacare unlike the rest of the
spineless fools in Washington who are only looking to stay in the Big Boys Club
at the expense of us serfs. Have you heard that only 30,000 people have signed
up for Obamacare so far and that in order to break even they need 7 million.
The website they spent a half a billion dollars on is a joke. That is what
happens when you get government intervention, total chaos and inefficiency. As
said before, this nation is a train wreck waiting to happen if we continue to
spend money on things that don't work. So the shut down wasted taxpayer
dollars...how much of our money will be wasted with Obamacare? This will end
badly and we will be stuck with a single payer system in the end where we will
all have one choice for health care. How does that sound?
Principled; Yes. Courageous; Yes. Foolish; Absolutely. Obama gave up nothing
and got everything he wanted including setting the stage for the Republicans to
strap on suicide vests again in 90 days. A couple more iterations of this next
year and the Republicans will be voted into a minority in the mid-term
elections. It takes principles, courage and some strategic intelligence to be
successful in the US Government. The Tea Party Republicans continue to get out
maneuvered by Reid and Obama and just drag the rest of the party down with it.
Its a shame because I like most of their platform.
@RedneckLefty"...in order to try to undo a three-year-old-law that was
originally crafted by... Republicans."Just keep repeating that
lie and maybe someone not on the hard left will eventually buy it. The whole
bill was ramrodded through Congress using unconventional tactics, with no imput
from the Republican side, no amendments allowed from them, and without a single
GOP vote. How anyone can say it is somehow a "Republican plan" with a
straight face is beyond me?@church member"I often wonder
what we could accomplish as a country if the GOP would get out of the
way."How about $30 trillion in debt by 2020 instead of by 2030
(assuming the entire country is not completely bankrupt before then)?It was definitely a plan that was doomed to failure given our current
government "leadership", but at least they had the backbone to stand up
and try to stop the madness.
In the movie Mr Smith Goes To Washington was it a "fools errand or historic
stand" for Jimmy Stewart to stand and filibuster for 24 hours. Most in the
movie said he was a young and foolish man but at the end of the day his stand
meant something. He stood for something in spite of what all the Washington
press and cronies and other congressmen said. They hated him for what he did.
Wow - the comparison with what Cruz did is worth noting. Ted Cruz is a smart
former Texas Attorney General. He knew the votes weren't there to defund
Obamacare but he also knew someone needed to push back against Barack and Harry
to bring to light this hideous health care bill and how it would be a disaster
for the country. Well everyone snarked at Ted but guess what---the roll out of
Obamacare was exactly as Ted Cruz predicted it would be and since its roll out
the nation is screaming with pain over this bill. Yes the freeloaders get their
ration of free healhcare along with their other free stuff but the working tax
paying man is getting hosed...as Ted predicted.
This questions is easily answered- which news source do you follow- answer that
and I will answer the question for you
Would that it were simply a fool's errand--- the rich interests that
back these third rate politicians keep trying to discredit this President and
and the overall US Government, in order to be able to elect more of their
lackeys next time....toosmartforyouFarmington, UT"If Obamacare is so great why didn't they implement it a few states
at the time so it would work for people to sign up? Not too smart, current
administration!!"Oh, please! -- A Federal Law should be
implemented in some States only? Which ones? Would people in State A buy from
insurers in State B to get around it?I am wondering if Sen. Lee wrote this
Fools. Absolutely, no doubt about it.
There was nothing heroic about it. Not only was it a fool's errand, but
they cost tax payers a great deal of money, damaged their own party and did
nothing but gain name recognition for themselves. They are both self-serving
people and I, for one, will not vote for Mike Lee. I will vote for any
candidate running against him in a primary, no pulse is needed, or in the
How much money was wasted by shutting the government down? How many man-hours
were spent sending out furlough letters? How much money is going to be spent to
pay employees who were not allowed to be productive? Personnel
costs are actual money, and two weeks of wasted money just occurred. Money that
was taken away from performing assigned duties. What a great way to
spend money. If you call that a heroic stand and fiscally
conservative, please enlighten me as to why.
Yes, the ship's crew steering the Titanic have won the right to order
"Steady on the Helm!". But the iceberg (national debt plus new
Obamacare debt) is still straight ahead. And the money we will be diverting
towards health care will not be spent on iPhones or cars or groceries or ...
complete clown show, thanks for the excellent adventures of Ted and Mike...my pet hamster is smarter than these two combined
more like a tool's errand...
Harry blinked first. They accepted a bill with conditions. The liberal media
will make the Republicans look like there were foolish when it was the "no
negotiation" Democrats that caved in for something they said they would not
accept.SCORE: Repub's 1 - Dem's 0.Unfortunately the game has been delayed for another 3 months. Sound familiar
when viewed in light of the previous financial crisis?If Obamacare
is so great why didn't they implement it a few states at the time so it
would work for people to sign up? Not too smart, current administration!!
I think it proved both of them are fools!
My wife sure isn't happy. She had planned a national parks and monuments
tour with our kids starting on October 1st. Booked hotels, rented a vehicle,
scheduled time off from her work. Then comes along Mike Lee, Ted Cruz, and
other Tea Party Republicans who decided to escalate partisanship to a new level
by insisting not to fund laws they don't like. Terrible precedent. It
affected far too many things, including the big family vacation.Even
though I'm a lifelong Republican, I will do everything I can in 2014 to
ensure Mike Lee isn't elected again. He's a stubborn, partisan,
ideological person who forgot this nation is filled with people who have more
than one viewpoint.
Mike Lee is a disaster waiting to happen; a political house of cards that is
getting blown over. His credibility is shot. Oh, how I wish Bob Bennett was
still Utah's senator.
Definitely a fool's errand.I often wonder what we could
accomplish as a country if the GOP would get out of the way.
Trying to save American taxpayers from trillions of more debt and an out of
control government healthcare train wreck is only a fool's errand in a
Fools error...not errand!
Republicans grandstanding against other Republicans in order to try to undo a
three-year-old-law that was originally crafted by... Republicans.I
have to admit, this has been kind of entertaining. Would have been more
entertaining if it hadn't brought the global economy to the brink of
HEROIC STAND! For sure!!!All those against them, in both parties,
have promoted continued un-American and irresponsible spending which will
bankrupt the country. Sure we have the gimmie programs now, but when we are so
insolvent we can't borrow a nickel, there won't be any help for the
poor, the old who have paid SS all their lives, and the ill. The government
won't have money to help, and the private sector won't either. The
government will have squandered it all.
Fools errand. We ended up where we started, via a totally unnecessary, painful
and circuitous route. We'd have been further ahead if these guys just sat
in a corner and held their breath.
I'm leaning toward "Fool's Errand."