BYU football: Arizonan TE Matt Bushman commits to Cougars


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  • Reno Cougs Fan 68 Reno, NV
    Oct. 17, 2013 11:34 a.m.

    All schools try to get the best players that can help the schools win games!!! Would they like to get all 5 stars probably, is it possible no!!! Not even the Top football school Alabama gets all 5 star recruits, so lets all chill out and just enjoy the kids that play for our favorite schools and cheer them on each week!!!

    Go Cougs!!!

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 17, 2013 10:28 a.m.

    analogy of how we can manipulate numbers when it comes to recruiting.
    it is like saying I have a pie that is 3/5 eaten so i eat .4/5 more of the pie. Then when someone asks how much pie did you eat you say I ate .4/2.6. Instead of .4/3.0.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 17, 2013 10:21 a.m.

    Chris B.
    I respect the Utes, I respect the Cougars. There are things I love about both programs. I believe respect for all people and fan bases is required to be a decent person.
    My argument is that Utah schools can contend with other schools, Utah beat Stanford and Alabama. Two great teams. BYU has defeated Texas, Oklahoma, Oregon.
    All 5 of these programs I just mentioned out recruit BYU and UTAH does it mean that they are better programs, institutions, teams? because they recruit better. Ute fans used to argue stars didn't mean that much if they do then Utah schools will always finish between 28 and 68. I believe both programs can achieve great victories with both their limitations.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 17, 2013 10:02 a.m.

    all due respect Chris B.
    The difference between our two points of view are the precision of the rankings.
    The star system is based on more precise rankings. I looked at the more precise ranking to get the same conclusion (Utah is out-recruiting BYU).
    I used the more precise numbers to make the same comparison as you.
    Accuracy of our two statements are good we get the same result. Precision is where the difference is at.
    I have supported your point on every post. I just thought people would find it interesting to view different numbers.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 17, 2013 9:16 a.m.

    let me use ASU and Utah as an example.
    Current Ute class stars 2.78
    Versus ASU 3.07 (ah shucks)
    average rivals ranking ASU 5.62
    Average rivals ranking Utah 5.57
    so we look at stars (with the correct baseline of 5) a 6 percent difference in classes
    the baseline you chose to use of the lower class 10.4 percent
    My more precise numbers not even 1 percent in fact .83 percent.
    So by your arguments ASU recruits between 6 percent and 10.4 percent better than Utah.
    Or by my argument it is .83 percent better.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 17, 2013 9:06 a.m.

    we all work with science and math. But any scientist will say a scale of 1 to 50 is ten times more precise than a 1 to 5 scale.
    I am not arguing your point I am discussing the precision (or lack thereof) of the 1 to 5 scale.
    247 sports has a 1 to 100 scale it is therefore twice as precise as 1 to 50.
    You can state an argument on accuracy, but any highly educated person in the word will say 1 to 5 is not more precise that a 1 to 60 or 1 to 100 scale.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 17, 2013 9:02 a.m.

    the number you state is .4 divide by 2.6. Worthless in this argument that would be comparing a 2.2 star to a 2.6 star.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 17, 2013 8:56 a.m.

    by the way on your last comment .4 divided by 3.0 equals 13.3 percent. You may need a new calculator.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 17, 2013 8:52 a.m.

    You do understand I am not saying BYU's recruiting is better. I am showing (with the numbers you use)that the difference is quite slim.
    You should be proud of the Utes (like I am) that they are beating teams that recruit at a much higher level.
    I think disrespect over 1.67 to 3 percent is absurd.
    It is like a kid pick on another kid I got a slightly better C that you got.
    I am using your site and your sources

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Oct. 16, 2013 10:52 p.m.

    Oh myperspective...

    This is all suppose to be fun... So forget about being boxed in previous debates... I don't know if Matt said those things are not, and neither do you... We do know that he chose BYU over offers from PAC12 and MWC schools...

    I happen to believe that the fact BYU is Independent can be fairly attractive... How many teams in America get to play 2 teams from the ACC, A top tier team from the Big 10, a top tier team from the Big 12, a team from the PAC12, 3 top tier teams from the MWC, a team from CUSA, a team from the Former Big East Conference, and ND all in the same year? That diversity is huge... Rivalries are beginning to develop everywhere and if BYU shows well it will spawn more interest from recruits around the country...

    So, maybe you can ask Matt or his parents if they are upset with the liberty I took in manufacturing a quote that mirrors what we hear from alot of our recruits but I am pretty sure you will find that they don't mind... It's only bothersome to the easily offended... lol.

  • Cougarista Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 16, 2013 9:32 p.m.

    Compare the freshman class ACT average at BYU with any other in-state university. No, ACT doesn't win football games, but if football is all you are known for, who cares about academics?

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 16, 2013 4:51 p.m.

    Ask 20 of any other schools recruits if one school did not allow drinking, immorality, late nights, and facial or long hair. If that would affect their recruitment?
    Truth is even if it is 1 out of 20 (probably a lot more than that) BYU's recruiting pool is smaller.
    I can break out more math and articles that are credible if you want.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 16, 2013 4:47 p.m.

    The star system is an arbitrary number. Yes it works. There is a larger difference in recruiting say if you pull in 5.8 rival ranking athletes than the 5.5 star athletes.
    I was point out that the difference between 5.5 athletes and 5.6 athletes is not as great as 2.6 to 3.0.
    Am I making sense, I am using a more precise number to show the same result you get just not as large as margin.
    So I agree a 2.6 is larger than a 3.0. I used rivals rankings (where they get the star system from) to show a more detailed analysis.
    I do research for a living I work with numbers every hour of everyday. Not trying to make anyone mad. Counting 1,2,3,4,5 is a lot different than counting 5.1, 5.2, 5.3.
    Need more explanation?

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 16, 2013 4:40 p.m.

    I will explain the difference in stars.
    Rivals has a rivals ranking between 5.1 and 5.5 are two star athletes 5.6 to 5.8 are 3 star athletes. 5.9 to 6.0 are 4 star and above 6 are 5-star recruits.
    You swing and a miss is that you brag of a 1.67 percent difference. I work with statistics all day, bet I can prove at the current recruiting neither team has a shot to win the NT.
    You pulled out a mathematical argument that I investigated and showed my results. If that makes you upset.
    Drinking partying and stuff has nothing to do with stars, but it eliminates many recruits who desire to do those things.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 16, 2013 2:37 p.m.

    Thanks Vegas Ute showing the two fan bases can be cordial.

  • That's A Good One Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 16, 2013 12:41 p.m.

    I just became a fan of VegasUte. I even bumped the Like button, something I swore I'd never do!

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    Oct. 16, 2013 11:20 a.m.

    Christoper B.

    I actually agree with you (I even liked your first post). It was a good pickup, stars do matter, and Utah has out-recruited BYU for the last several years.

    Now obviously the head-to-head recruiting battle between BYU/UofU matters very little because a) they aren't competing for very many of the same recruits, b) they don't play in the same league, and c) they are very different schools with different needs and consequently recruit different kinds of kids.

    I don't know how Utah stacks up with the rest of the PAC12 in terms of recruiting classes but I would guess that their rankings are consistent with where they have placed in the league the last two years. BYU has a unique mission and consequently recruits differently from other schools. Especially in the last few years Mendenhall has really targeted kids who buy-in to the BYU culture, which has resulted in many more under-the-radar recruits. I agree with Chris B. that it will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 16, 2013 11:16 a.m.

    someone who works with statistics and athletics every day. a 0-99 scale is much better than a 1-5 star scale.
    From the looks of it BYU has a 2 to 3 percent less class than the utes on average. If it is about recruiting. BYU's 1984 National Title is probably the only one that will ever be in Utah.
    Both programs are good. 2 to 3 percent apart is not bad. considering both schools are around 10 below the reining champs.
    Go Utah Schools

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 16, 2013 11:12 a.m.

    Just a few number from 247 sports
    Utah 2011-2014 average recruit-84.19 remove utahs outlier (83.67)
    BYU 2011-2014 average recruit-81.12 remove BYU outlier (81.9)
    UCLA 2011-2014 avg. 86.8 remove outlier (88)
    USC 2011-2014 avg. 91.6 remove outlier (93)
    outlier removed was the value farthest from the mean.
    Utah best recruiting year was 2011. BYUs best this year (last year was way off the mean).
    So by ranking philosophy: so on a 99 ranking. BYU is 3.07 percent lower than Utah.
    Utah 2.61 below UCLA, and 7.41 below USC.
    I may be mistaking but Utah still has around 13 scholarships for next year so they could go up or down (after analyzing 247 sports list of Utah offers and athletes considering utah, probably down)
    BYU class is almost complete (after analyzing outstanding scholarship offers, and the athletes considering BYU will probably trend upward)
    UCLA and USC did not go as in depth. my guess is UCLA will trend upward and USC downward.
    I believe the outlier is a more accurate number to eliminate unique qualities in the numbers)
    There are the statistics of recruiting

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 16, 2013 10:47 a.m.


    "Oh yes", says Bushman, I will take the excitement of Independence with games against tough teams all over the country instead of just the Pacific Coast and the Mountain West..."

    He said that, really? I didn't see that in the article so I'll go back and re-read...slower this time. The other possible scenario is that he didn't make the statement you have in quotes. In that case, you have taken taken liberties that you ought not have taken.

  • Alterego Harrisville, UT
    Oct. 16, 2013 10:27 a.m.

    I don't have a source for my OP.

    It was intended to be a sarcastic response to your average "star" obsession. I didn't realize you wished to be taken seriously.

    In any case. Good luck to this young man hopefully he will be a great addition. If his stars are as important as some would have us believe, he will be one of the best.

  • dustman Gallup, NM
    Oct. 16, 2013 9:17 a.m.

    Remember when BYU would throw the ball to their tight end?

  • Alterego Harrisville, UT
    Oct. 16, 2013 8:37 a.m.

    I think the last four years have actually been a little closer

    Utah 2.95
    BYU 2.72

    Congratulations to this young man.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    Oct. 16, 2013 6:08 a.m.

    Great to have another quality recruit at TE but I hope we know how to use him by time he gets back from his mission. Our current roster is full of 3 and 4-star tight ends but as a group they continue to underwhelm. I don't know if this is a coaching issue, if the TEs are being used differently than they were in the past, or if they simply aren't stepping up. Thoughts?

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Oct. 16, 2013 12:27 a.m.

    "Oh yes", says Bushman, I will take the excitement of Independence with games against tough teams all over the country instead of just the Pacific Coast and the Mountain West..."

    Welcome aboard Matt, it's great to have you.

  • Riddles in the Dark Olympus Cove, Utah
    Oct. 15, 2013 11:40 p.m.

    Welcome aboard Matt; it'll be fun having you join the great legacy of BYU tight ends.