To "UT Brit" the NHS may be popular, and it may work for many, but that
doesn't change the fact that they have policies that leave people in pain,
refuse to treat people, or push people into selling all of their property to get
better care through private providers.I have lived in another
country, and I watched people die at the hand of socialized medicine.You say that you would never want to live under a system like the US has, yet
in England, the private insurance business is growing. If the NHS was so great,
why would the number of people getting private insurance doulbe between 2007 and
2010? It seems that many people are not satisfied with the NHS.
"The NHS isn't even handling the necessary care for the people in
England."I live here Redshirt, I am having a debate with someone
who has zero experience or knowledge of a health care system while trying to
pretend that they do. I guess you would argue with Buzz Aldrin about what it
feels like being launced to the moon. The NHS is very popular. My
family and extended family and friends have had good experiences. Apparently
thats all wrong though according to you. Should I go by my own experiences and
that of my family or go from someone who probably has never lived in another
country?I have lived in the States Redshirt and seen the terrible
health care system you have. I will say again, I would never want to live under
a similar system again. Speak to people with experience and not rely on
newspapers trying to make headlines.
To "UT Brit" the problem is that most of what I have listed are not
problems with specific hospitals or doctors. Most of those articles point out
Policies of the NHS that are killing people. Your system is what is killing
people, not individual policies.I can avoid individual hospitals and
doctors that abuse patients. I can't avoid national systems that encompass
all public healthcare providers. The only way to avoid the disasterous NHS
policies is to go to private doctors, so why not establish a system based on
private care and insurance in the first place?The NHS isn't
even handling the necessary care for the people in England. They are refusing
to pay for medications that prevent long term pay.Why would I want a
national system that will use cost cutting measures to save the system money at
the expense of the healt of its citizens?
@Redshirt1701Oh I can do a headline dump for horror stories from the
US, I can assure you I would win by a healthy margin. Which country is
clamouring for healthcare reforms again?Can the NHS handle every
single eventuality, no. Are you saying that you never have problems in America
with your health care? That no one dies waiting for care? That people are not
put into taxi cabs and dropped off down the street? That insurance companies
dont have lifetime caps, have thousands of employees whos sole purpose it is to
not pay for care?The NHS is not perfect but having lived in the
States I can confidently say it stands head and shoulders above what I
experienced in the US.The titanic survivor would have been able to
go to a public nursing home, she chose to pay for a private one and could not
pay the bills, sounds like you need to do more research.Come to
England and ask a thousand people on the streets whether they like the NHS and
whether they would like to scrap it for a US style healthcare system. I am
extremely confident in what the response would be.
To "UT Brit" I have looked into your system quite extensively.Here are some headlines from newspapers other than the Daily Mail:"100,000 terminally ill 'do not get proper palliative care'"
Telegraph"Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins
rationing operations" The Independent"'Cruel and
neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed" Telegraph"Patients 'denied intensive care'" BBC" The real lessons of this NHS disaster" The Independent"Lung cancer victims denied lifesaving scans" The Telegraph"Patients forced to live in agony after NHS refuses to pay for painkilling
injections" Telegraph"Sentenced to death on the NHS:
Patients with terminal illnesses are being made to die prematurely under an NHS
scheme to help end their lives, leading doctors have warned." Telegraph"The Ugly Realities Of Socialized Medicine Are Not Going Away"
Forbes"Two patients died after waiting in ambulance outside
'full' Oldham hospital unit " Manchester Evening News."Last 'Titanic' survivor sells mementoes to pay for care"
AFP I thought people didn't have to go bankrupt under Universal care?Apparently ever other news source in England has found massive problems
with the NHS, why haven't you ever seen those reports?
@Redshirt1701"for the most part they put politicians in charge
of who lives and dies at the hands of the government employees"Please cite which countries you have researched that have that system. I have
been in my doctors office many times and have never seen a politician in there
telling the doctor whether to treat me or not.I have private
insurance through my work and I have never used it. I am perfectly happy with
the treatment my family and I have received from the NHS.I suggest
you stop reading Daily Mail headlines and actually talk to people in the
countries you have been "researching". The Titanic survivor was living
in a private nursing home and she was unable to pay the bills. No treatment was
denied her, I suppose in America the private nursing home would have waived her
bills and continued to support her right.............As regarding
the influx of patients, I have never waited so long in an ER than when I was in
a hospital in the US. When people depend on the ER for simple treatments instead
of going to a doctors surgery the waiting time seems to increase you see.
To "Alfred" actually, you are wrong about the US government overhead
costs. While just the Medicare department has a 3% overhead, the complete
government has a 25% to 30% overhead rate. Saying that Medicare has a 3%
overhead rate is like saying that your company's billing department has a
3% overhead cost. While it may be true, it doesn't tell us the whole
story.To "UT Brit" I have done research on other
countries' systems, and for the most part they put politicians in charge of
who lives and dies at the hands of the government employees. They often end up
with 2 tiered systems where the commoners get second rate care and the wealthy
pay private doctors. Take England as an example. They pulled the plug on
funding care for a survivor of the Titanic. The government hospitals in large
cities often can't handle the influx of patients, and so forth.
Alfred, UT Brit has real experience, listen and learn. To add to your so called
premise a fairly recent poll done in Canada 90% of Canadians would not scrape
their system for ours. This shoots the myth that Canadians flock south. If you
have ever truly experienced the before and after of the ACA then you would
prefer the later, even with all it's flaws. Denial of healthcare for profit
is not healthcare it's vulturous.
@Alfred"Right now, if someone in a country with government
healthcare (like England) needs care and don't want to wait in line, they
comes to the US. Where will they (and US citizens) go under Obamacare?"Errr they just go to a private doctors in the UK. You do know we have
public and private hospitals right.....well obviously not.I do not
know a single person who has been to the US for treatment. Please do research on
other countries health care systems before commenting on them.
After hearing all the voices for or against ObamaCare, I concluded that a Single
Payer system was better than the alternatives. ObamaCare was well intentioned,
but far too complex to succeed. There are too many special interest groups
(Democrats, Republicans, Unions, Doctors, Hospitals, Health Insurance companies,
young folks, old folks, and even states) for everything to click together.
Murphy's Law has yet to be repealed, but neither should ObamaCare.
However, it does require some major changes, and that will only happen if we
have bipartison support.
@ugottabkidn:"Afred from AZ, We are already spending enough money on
healthcare to pay for a single payer healthcare system."So, why
not keep what we have?"Medicare administration costs 5% your for
profit healthcare system is paying close to 35%."The Correct
overhead numbers are 3% (Medicare) and 12% (private insurance.) And the reason
for the difference is, Medicare serves the elderly who incur much, much more
healthcare costs resulting in a significantly lower overhead percentage."As a nation we are paying the highest percentage of our GNP for
healthcare of any industrialized nation and yet the results are at the
bottom."That's because of Americans' lifestyle of low
physical activities and overeating. This will all change under Obamacare as the
government will tell you what and how much you can eat and what kind of
exercises you must engage in... something like the life inmates experience in
jails."It will, I mean will without a doubt, come back to haunt
you."Obamacare is already haunting millions of seniors who will
be instructed to 'just go home and take a painkiller.' Obama's
Afred from AZ, We are already spending enough money on healthcare to pay for a
single payer healthcare system. Medicare administration costs 5% your for profit
healthcare system is paying close to 35%. As a nation we are paying the highest
percentage of our GNP for healthcare of any industrialized nation and yet the
results are at the bottom. We have the means we just don't have the will.
It will, I mean will without a doubt, come back to haunt you.
@high school fan:"Healthcare for all? Right. 30,000,000 people will
still not be covered"Probably true. Many young people will pay
the penalty (oops) tax rather than buy insurance. And, since 'preexisting
condition' is out the door, many will not buy until they are sick and need
it. Which means insurance companies will either go bust or have to
significantly jack the premiums up.
Healthcare for all? Right. 30,000,000 people will still not be covered
This letter is a prime example of what happens when a person overdoses on hate
@Curmedgeon:"Patients on Medicare get the same services from the same
providers (hospitals, doctors, etc) as Patients on Blue Cross or any other
insurance company."Obama allocated big chucks of Medicare to
Obama care. With less resources, services will, of necessity, be cut back.
Even now, some Doctors will not take new Medicare patients. What will it be
like with Medicare funding redirected to Obamacare?
"Next year, Medicare patients will receive sub prime care."HUH? While I am not a fan of ObamaCare, I cannot wrap my mind around the
above comment. Patients on Medicare get the same services from the same
providers (hospitals, doctors, etc) as Patients on Blue Cross or any other
insurance company. The only difference is where that Medicare is paying the
bill rather than another company.
Hutterite"But, if we'd get over ourselves, we'd figure out
there's a way to make it work."It won't work
because...There's not enough money in the entire world to
provide all the healthcare that every US citizen wants or can use. Thus,
someone has to go without. With the healthcare industry as it's currently
constituted those who go without are the poor and/or can't get insurance
for some reason. With government provided single payer healthcare the poor will
get their care... but someone else has to go without. And that someone is the
elderly. When people get old and need serious healthcare they will have to go
without. The government will decide that because there is limited resources and
someone has to go without. It's called (by Sarah Palin) 'death
panels.' Obama told us early on how it works... 'if you're old
and need extensive healthcare, just go home and take a painkiller.'Right now, if someone in a country with government healthcare (like
England) needs care and don't want to wait in line, they comes to the US.
Where will they (and US citizens) go under Obamacare?
I agree Obamacare should be repealed. However, ONLY if it is replaced by the
health care system needed, wanted and possible for America called Single Payer
U. S. government Health care. Without any reservation, the
government of the United States of America will pay for any and all needed and
proper medical care for every American citizen and every person within the area
of control of the United States of America. This amendment to the
Constitution as created and voted into being by the people of the United States
of America to be effective as of NOW.
This letter is one of the most misinformed letters I have seen in a very long
time. Medicare is in the shape it is in because your Utah representatives along
with their republican cronies voted to force Medicare to pay retail for drugs
with NO authority to negotiate prices like the VA or any other nation. These
"brilliant" economists also
These letters are getting more and more ridiculous....Jay Leno makes
jokes about Obama, Obamacare, Republicans, Democrats, religion, Science,
Muslims, Catholics, Mormons, Jews, Mexicans, ...it doesn't matter.He
is a comedian!That is his JOB for crying out loud!Besides, Jay Leno announced his RETIREMENT [again, for a 2nd time] months ago.He
is not getting "fired" for making jokes about Obamacare.As I
said - ridiculous.
I was opposed to the Iraq was of 2003 but was not exempt from my tax money going
to that war. If you are a citizen of this country sometimes your money goes to
pay for things you do not support.
Does anyone still think that ObamaCare will provide health CARE for everyone?
Haven't they read the articles in the Deseret News? Haven't they read
about those who will not be covered? Haven't they read about those who
will received less than adequate care? Haven't they read about the
hundreds of thousands of workers whose hours have been reduced because of
ObamaCare? Haven't they read about the soaring insurance premiums that
cost $2,500 MORE per family per year, not $2,500 LESS, as Obama promised?When people believe a politician and ignore the facts, they're will
be duped. "Duped" is related to "duplicity".
"Duplicity" means "deceitful". Obama has been deceitful when
he's campaigned for ObamaCare. That program is not at all related to the
ObamaCare that you and I will have to pay for if the Democrats continue to
reject the will of the people. Even Obama doesn't want his program to be
implemented - until after the next election. If it were such a marvelous
program, wouldn't he want it in place BEFORE the election. Wouldn't
he want the people to know what his program has done?
Wow. These letters to the editor get more ridiculous everyday. I'm sure Jay
Leno is stepping down because he got in trouble for making jokes about
Ann,Couple pointsObamacare is not inferior to someone
who currently has no healthcare.If you have insurance today, you
will not go on Obamacare. Just like our congressmen.I think that
Obamacare could be much better and wish our congressmen would come to the table
in earnest to make improvements, but alas, that is not the case. Can you name
any GOP proposed legislation that has attempted to make improvements? Or any
piece of GOP proposed legislation that has attempted to Replace Obamacare?It is reasonable to have discussions about Obamacare. It is reasonable
to dislike Obamacare. There are lots of problems with Obamacare.How
about we discuss those instead of writing factually challenged letters to the
Ann, we are now to the point were people need to start offering alternative
solutions, not just criticism.The law can be amended. We now have
something in place. Lets work with it and structure it to work for us. I
daresay NO law about universal health care will make everyone happy, mistakes
will be made. How we deal with them is how the system will be judged.
Sadly, we're missing our chance to provide everyone health care. A single
payer health care system. And people will have access to your health information
in this system. They're delivering your health care, why shouldn't
they? Not the IRS, mind you, but the health care system. Of course it won't
happen; there's a nose to be shot of to spite our metaphorical face. But,
if we'd get over ourselves, we'd figure out there's a way to make
it work. We just won't have it if someone else might benefit, too.