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Published: Thursday, Sept. 12 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

Is there just a reflex in Utah to support the opposite of Obama? We had a lot of opposition to Syria strikes but now that Obama called for a delay in the vote to see if the diplomatic solution will work I swear I'm seeing a lot more calls for military strikes and assertions that removing chemical weapons isn't enough since Assad will just kill people with conventional weapons.

SEY
Sandy, UT

There is no constitutional power to attack a nation that is not threatening us in any way. An attack would establish a precedent that has no foundation in law, even if Congress gives its permission to do so. This is a case of "might makes right" and nothing else.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

john,
dictators cannot use gas to murder children, but it's OK to use:

starvation (north korea)?

bullets (Syria, Egypt, Iran, Zimbabwe, Burma, China)?

collapsing buildings and sweathouses (bangladesh and all of the third world)?

please explain why we don't go after all these guys as well in our righteous indignation.

Baron Scarpia
Logan, UT

No question that the potential Russian diplomatic intervention to take control of Syria's chemical weapons was in direct response to America's willingness to use military force. While I'm not happy about the prospect of another war, I thought Obama was quite compelling in his remarks that if America allowed chemical weapons to be used, they'd proliferate in use and among terrorists against Americans.

Though seemingly messy in execution, I think Obama's moves (deployment of military, delays to bring Congress along, allowing the Russian diplomacy emerge) have been quite savvy to reach the end game of Syria admitting it has chemical weapons and its willingness to given them up.

one vote
Salt Lake City, UT

Putin's public relations team realizes that the tea party right hates Obama so bad that he can score points for Russia. What did Romney say about Russia?

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

It's an International treaty that was broken,
let the International community deal with it.

Syria did not attack America, our families or our freedoms,
once again -- we have no issue to get involved.

And Republicans only agree with me this time because they are pre-programed to reject all things Obama.

Iron Rod
Salt Lake City, UT

I realize Utah returned George W Bush back to Washington with the highest approval rating in the nation but I think many are now reevaluating their past support for him and the preemptive attack on Iraq. It was a total embarassment to me.

The residual anger over Iraq's war orgins will continue to haunt the American populace.
Many now realize that we went to war under false premises. Does any one not understand them? Would you like me to list them? They do not want a repeat of it.

I for one am weary with America military entangements in the middle east.

We can not afford to be the world's policeman.

We can not afford any longer to give foreign aid to Israel and Egypt with borrowed money.
As long as we have one homeless or hungry American we have no right to give borrowed money away to other countries.

I realize that a lot of pressure groups lean on congress to continue this aid but the time comes when we need to think of Americans and American interests first.

We need to stop "flushing our borrowed money" down the middle east.

Badgerbadger
Murray, UT

Oh WOW! I agree with LDS Lib!

Making strikes against Syria would make us the Hitleresk aggressor. They haven't done anything to us.

I am not surprised that John McCain wants us to intervene, but I am surprised Lindsey Graham, John Boehner, Nancy Pelosi, and the president want to. The democrats have been so verbally opposed to the foreign military actions in the last decade, that I just didn't think they would be for it. What happened?

My opposition has nothing to do with Obama. I oppose all those who want to take our military and do something stupid with it, including the above mentioned from both parties. There is a large block of democrats who are staying true to their non-intervention stand.

But I do seriously question those who have long opposed having our military actively involved in the middle east, but now think this is a good idea? And anyone who opposes the idea on any ground is really just out to get Obama??? Sounds like paranoia. The deluded Obama worshipers are making themselves known.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

@Badgerbadger
Murray, UT

Oh WOW! I agree with LDS Lib!

I oppose all those who want to take our military and do something stupid with it, including the above mentioned from both parties. There is a large block of democrats who are staying true to their non-intervention stand.

But I do seriously question those who have long opposed having our military actively involved in the middle east, but now think this is a good idea? And anyone who opposes the idea on any ground is really just out to get Obama??? Sounds like paranoia. The deluded Obama worshipers are making themselves known.
8:18 a.m. Sept. 12, 2013

======

Thanks,

But I gotta ask it -- Why the about face, 180, diametrically flip-flop now?

It's the SAME situation, maybe even more evident -- and suddenly there is complete turnabout.
Seriously, What changed, besides "political party"?

I have been 1,000% consistent for 12 years now.
Through all the snarky - "unAmerican", "unPatriotic" garbage I put up DAILY for 12 years.

I just want to know why NOW guys like you are singing such a different tune?
And would you still be singing it IF Mitt Romney were President?

Badgerbadger
Murray, UT

LDSLib

I disagree that it is the same situation. There are a lot of parameters that are very different.

Then:
Recent terrorist attack IN the US
Bin Ladin alive and leading his terrorist organization
The strong terrorist cells were concentrated
The belief that Iraqis were so tired of an oppressive dictator that they would embrace democracy.
Our military leaders favored going in.
The blessing from many countries for going in.
The hope that a successful democracy in the Middle East would inspire other countries to follow.

Now:
Bin Ladin dead
The terrorist 'boil has burst' spreading the terrorist infection all over a much larger area encompassing many countries.
Our own military leaders oppose going to Syria.
No backing from any other country, none!
Far less indication in Syria that any party is interested in a solution that shares the power. They are just fighting to be the sect in power.
The well intentioned experiment of an example democracy has failed. They just don't want it.
Almost 17 trillion in US debt, can't afford it.

World of difference, not a flip-flop (offensive, BTW).

Anti Bush-Obama
Washington, DC

If this person wants to bomb Syria they should go over there and take part in it. The war on terror is a total scam designed to take away freedoms and destabilize other nations. I'm sure the administration needs all the help they can get from people like you. I'm glad there are some in the military that are finally beginning to realize what a scam these wars truly are by refusing to report for duty if they are deployed. It's time to try Bush and Obama for WAR CRIMES.

Che
Payson, UT

There would be no debate, no name calling, no claiming this president did this and that one did that, if we but followed the Constitution of the United States of America in all branches of government....presidential, legislative, and judicial. Just follow the Rule of Law....not men and women, as is our present practice.

Other countries are sovereign and need to solve their own problems, live their own lives. If we have not been attacked, it's none of our business to attack them. Would we like it if another country decided we were out of line in the US in some way, so they have the right to attack us? Don't think so.

By the way....I heard this morning that some recently released European journalists in the middle east reported that they overheard their captures discussing how the rebels in Syria set off the gas attack to force the US to attack Assad. And another point. 1500 were gassed. What about the other 100,000 killed by conventional weapons. Guess that's ok.

J Thompson
SPRINGVILLE, UT

This thread isn't a poll or popularity contest to see who agrees with whom; it is a forum where we can discuss the principles which should guide this nation.

The United States is not the world's policeman.

The United States has no authority to involve itself in the affairs of a sovereign nation, unless that sovereign nation has attacked the United States.

If action is required by the world community because of actions within a sovereign nation (civil war), then the United Nations is the proper venue to discuss what actions need to be taken and which nations should be involved.

Obama has no right bomb Syria without the consent of Congress and Congress has no right to declare war on Syria unless Syria has attacked the United States or a nation that has allied itself with the United States.

Obama is using the public stage to perform his song and dance about Syria. He would destroy innocent lives to retaliate against those he claims destroyed innocent lives. His logic is faulty.

4601
Salt Lake City, UT

Tell us Mr. President, are we trying to:
Punish with an "unbelievably small" strike those who use poisonous gas.
Contain Syria's WMD. Where did they get them?
Weaken the Assad regime without knowing what will follow.
Help the rebels and which ones.
Prevent Syrian children from dying, just by gas or with bombs, rockets, guns, etc. also. They are tragically dead either way.
Prevent anyone from being slaughtered in Syria. Adults count, too.
Show the world that we are strong and decisive. The clock is running.
Show the US that we are strong and decisive. Time's up.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

@Badgerbadger
Murray, UT

You dodged, spun, and skirted every issue --

Let me boil it down to this --
and ANSWER the question honestly and truthfully:

Would you still be singing the same tune IF Mitt Romney were President?
[Hint & reminder: He promised over and over again if elected he WOULD invade Syria and Iran.
And that was BEFORE the chemical WMDs.]

Y/N ?

And I'm still waiting for the Congress and the GOP to fund their last $3 Trillion boondoggle.

I oppose the President's call to Syria.
That's called integrity.

I'm waiting for you guys to either:
1. Admit you were wrong supporting GW Bush
or
2. be consistent and attack Syria for the same reasons you did last time.
REGADLESS who's in the WhiteHouse.

That should prove who is supporting the truth and what is right,
and who's being duped as a political hack and a lemming.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

What obligation do we owe to the world?

To fight WMDs?
To fight bad guys?
To fight oppressive dictators?

In that case, America will ALWAYS be at war. Always. A perpetual state of war awaits us, our children, and grandchildren.

There will always be someone who has WMDs. There will always be a mean dictator out there. There will always be oppressed peoples.

Just look at our own middle east adventures. For over 20 years we have been at a state of perpetual war there and look at the results!

Trillions have been wasted and thousands of Americans have perished. Is the Middle-East any more safe today than it was 20 years ago? Is it any less unstable? Any more free?

Lets focus on America or there won't be an America left to help save the world.

Demosthenes
Rexburg, ID

The U.S. Constitution, the President, and Congress have no jurisdiction over another country. That jurisdiction, if there is any, belongs to the United Nations. Love 'em or hate 'em, they're the only entity with jurisdiction to interfere in Syria. The U.S. doesn't have a dog in this fight.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

LDS Liberal,
#1. I think there was as much reason to stop what Saddam Hussein was doing in Iraq.

#2. Unlike you... I have no problem with people changing their mind, as long as they can point to when and why they changed their mind.

I'm not one of those who thinks, "You can never change your mind", "You have to stick consistently to the political narrative", "If you ever change your mind, EVER.. it's a Flip-Flop".

It's OK to change your mind.

And no... you can't always ASSUME that it's just because Obama's a Democrat. For some that may be true, but you can't just assume it knowing nothing about the person.

Blanket group judgements are rarely correct. Basing your every thought on political narrative is not right. Judging everyone based on your political stereotypes is bogus.

We need to be able to discuss things and not be instantly judged (based on stereotypes), and even change our mind as we learn lessons.

This will probably be blocked, but if it's not... I agree with you on this one (just not your prejudiced assumption that anybody who disagrees with Obama is flipflopping).

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

@2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Well then -- same question:
Would you still be singing the same tune IF Mitt Romney were President?

Y/N ?

==========

BTW - I know about changing one's mind.
Many years ago, I used to be a Republican.

I've been in an actual war --
I've see death, and disparity.
I've seen starvation and disease.

That made me have a Change of Heart.
and now it's Bleeding...

wrz
Pheonix, AZ

@Iron Rod:
"I realize Utah returned George W Bush back to Washington with the highest approval rating in the nation but I think many are now reevaluating their past support for him and the preemptive attack on Iraq."

Remember, Bush was given approval by Congress to go to war with Iraq. And guess who voted for it? Hilary Clinton, John K\erry and Joe Biden, that's who.

"Many now realize that we went to war under false premises."

The war was a continuation of the military action to kick Saddam out of Kuwait.

"As long as we have one homeless or hungry American we have no right to give borrowed money away to other countries."

We will continue to have homeless as long as the government keeps giving handouts.

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