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Published: Thursday, Sept. 5 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Contrariusiest
mid-state, TN

"Racial flames have been fanned by the Trayvon Martin case and the two shocking murders of white victims by black youths. "

Please get your facts straight before fanning those "racial flames" even higher.

The recent murder of Australian college athlete Chris Lane was actually committed by one black teen, one biracial teen, and one WHITE teen -- not "black youths", even though that was the false story spread around by conservative media outlets.

Samson01
S. Jordan, UT

Contrariusiest,

I am trying to understand your post. You quoted a part of the letter that was not inaccurate, perhaps not complete, but not inaccurate. You then jumped on the phrase "racial flames" when the writer was clearly steering away from the racial aspect and emphasizing other factors.

The quote "There is a societal problem that I believe has more to do with the violence than does prejudice." clearly indicates the premise of the letter. That is that racism is less a factor than other factors including government dependence, TV violence, gangs, personal violence, and the lack of a family structure.

You seem to be picking at words in order to be contrary. Maybe that was your intent?

Contrariusier
mid-state, TN

@Chris B --

"Black commit 7.5 more interracial crimes than whites, even though they are a much smaller percentage of the population?"

That's a misleading claim, but the statistics are complicated and time-consuming.

There are good discussions of the facts out there, though, if you want to look them up.

One thorough article is "Race, Crime and Statistical Malpractice: How the Right Manipulates White Fear With Bogus Data" at the Time Wise website.

Another is "Race and crime in the United States" on wikipedia.

Anyone who is interested in the actual facts of the issue should at least take the time to do some independent research.

GZE
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

You write: Studies have shown that having a father in the home is critical to a young person's success

I think you left out a couple of words here. Like "good" and "involved". Studies have actually shown that the presence of a parent that cannot be described by those words actually does young people much more harm than good. If a man does not want to act as his children's father, he is more of a liability than an asset.

Contrariusier
mid-state, TN

@Samson01 --

"You seem to be picking at words in order to be contrary. Maybe that was your intent?"

No, sorry. That was a delayed reaction to earlier discussions of the Chris Lane murder, in which multiple responders insisted that the murder was a hate crime because supposedly it was committed by black teens. Seeing the repetition of the falsehood, I wanted to make sure that the earlier canards didn't get started again.

As you can see from Chris' post, some people are all too willing to blame the ills of the world on race.

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

Chris B "Shows where the racism truly lies."

...where it always has, among the fearful, the ignorant, and the chosen.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

I believe that the treatment of President Obama is a solid indication that racial prejudice is alive and well just below the surface of the American society. The cases of Trayvon Martin and the unnamed whites may just be what we need to expose the truth.

The writers choice of words may also tell us so. The black youth is identified by name giving the notion that it is a single unusual incident. The description of the white youths as shocking murders by black youth conveys a more general widespread activity.

The notion that the missing father is the cause of the bad behavior is simply the propaganda of a leading cable news person and is pointing to a symptom of the problem rather than the cause.

My opinion is that it is economic oppression that is the great determiner in a person’s behavior. Businessmen will never admit to this and we won’t hear or see it on any media.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

The election of Obama as President brought to light both the progress we've made as well as the racism that persists.

Homicide statstics show people are more likely to be killed by someone of their own race. Most murders were intraracial, with 84% of white homicide victims murdered by whites, and 93% of black victims murdered by blacks.

Another recent study in 2012 raises a different concern, showing that Hispanics and blacks receive considerably longer sentences for the same or lesser offenses per average than white offenders with equal or greater criminal records.

African Americans are given longer federal sentences, even when factoring prior criminal records. African American jail sentences tend to be roughly 10% longer than white jail sentences for the same crimes. According to the US Census Bureau as of the year 2000 there were 2,224,181 blacks enrolled in college. In that same year there were only 610,300 black inmates in prison according to the Bureau of Justice.

According to the FBI, in 2010 58% of hate crime offenders were latino or white, and 18% of offenders were black.

Tekakaromatagi
Dammam, Saudi Arabia

I agree with the letter writer. We have this misconception, a myth, that there is such a thing as casual sex. I stopped believing in Santa Claus a long time ago.

One time I was visiting a youth detention center to tell multicultural stories to young men who had broken the law enough times for the law to take notice.

I was telling a story about a young man whose parents arranged for him to be adopted into an enemy tribe at the beginning of a war so that their son would be on the winning side and not be killed. In the first battle the young man met his father on the field of battle and the father told his son, "You have to kill me to show that you are truly loyal to your new tribe."

One of the inmates raised his hand and asked, "How did he know that was his father?" This threw me for a loop. Had I left out a detail? Because my assumption was, of course, you would know your own father. That wasn't the case in this young man's community. Which explained why he was in the youth detention center.

Copy Cat
Murray, UT

I love the way Happy Valley Heretic calls other people racist by spouting an anti-Semitic phrase.

I guess the screeners missed that one.

Perhaps happy valley hypocrite would be a better name.

FreedomFighter41
Provo, UT

How many other Presidents were required to show their birth certificates?

Where is the racism coming from again?

Badgerbadger
Murray, UT

@ Contrariusier

Looked up lots of sites, not just your cherry picked one. The larger consensus is that 85-90% of interracial crime is perpetrated by blacks, which, when you do the math, matches the numbers in the letter (88%).

That is not a racist claim. It is just the facts. Evelyn isn't racist either. She doesn't blame the color. She rightly blames the deterioration of the family and urges society to help reinstate the family as the revered necessary unit for a healthier society.

Why do you find that so offensive that you go off on a racist rant, proving her point perfectly?

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

BO can claim if he had a son he'd look like Trayvon, but he wouldn't say the same about the balck and bi-racial murderers of the aussie. what a hypocrite.

T-seeker (sorry, just cannot put "truth" in your name)
FBI stats on hate crime - who decides whether or not something's a hate crime? The black TSA agent who went on a rant wanting to start a race war - I have to wonder whether the holder-led injustice department would even call hime a hater, and if he attacked a non-black, if they would call it a hate crime. Those stats are easily manipulated.

t-seeker said BO's election brings to light that racism still exists. - you mean that's why BO got 90% of the black vote, blacks will not vote for anyone not of their race given the choice of another black?

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@lost in DC
John Kerry got 90+% of the black vote in 2004... and Hillary Clinton will most likely get 90+% of the black vote in 2016.

J Thompson
SPRINGVILLE, UT

The Wall Street Journal reported that between 2000 and 2010 that 78,521 blacks were homicide victims and that 58,989 whites were homicide victims. They reported that 68,531 blacks committed homicide and that 49,936 whites committed homicide.

Up to this point, some people might claim that environment could be blamed for the higher number of blacks committing homicide and being victims of homicide; however, when you factor in that 77% of us are white and that 13% of us are black, then you can begin to see how incredible the homicide numbers really are.

What has the government done to stop black on black violence? Maybe the better statement is that the failed "welfare" programs have increased violence in America. With third and fourth generation "families" living on welfare without a father and a mother in the home, just what did the government expect to happen?

When the President teaches us to blame others for our problems and to demand equal outcome with no effort on our part, what does he expect?

It's too bad that Bill Cosby is not the President. He tells it like it is.

Copy Cat
Murray, UT

Typical of the left, Atl34 gave false numbers.

(Remember that democrats/liberals fall asleep when the numbers and charts come out, like for budgets and such.)

I'll try to keep it simple for them.

Kerry got 88% of the black vote, which is less than 90% for those of you who are math challenged or have difficulty with the concept of the big end points at the bigger number.

Obama got 95% in 2008, and 2.1 million black people became new voters, many of which did so, so they could vote for the black man.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Of course they've been fanned! If you can't see that, you're blind. The question should be... What are we going to do about it?

This discussion is useless with the direction it's going (bickering the minute points and never getting around to discussing what we should do about it).

Is fanning the flames a GOOD thing? What good does fanning the flames do?

Is fanning the flames a BAD thing? What bad things come from fanning the flames of racism?

Bickering partisan points may be fun, but it gets us nowhere.

VST
Bountiful, UT

I have often wondered if the definition of a racist is anyone who is winning an argument with a liberal.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@Copy Cat
Darn it, I knew it was possible that it was in the high 80s. I ought to have factchecked that to make sure.

Oh well, my point remains that it's a really high number that vote for white Democrats too. And besides, this goes both ways. Romney cleaned up the Mormon vote after all (including in the primaries where you can't just claim most Mormons are Republican).

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

@ copy cat- Understanding the difference between racism and what I said would be one step in the right direction. Comment about religion are not racist since there are no pure race religious groups even those trying to purify one race or another. Anti semantic? hardly since all religions are the "chosen" according to them.

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