Like counting people returned as being deported? Other Presidents counted them
separate. ICE sued Obama over his waivers and telling them not to deport
children between the ages of 16 and 31, spouses of citizens and their children,
parents of a child. Almost 75% of all those here illegally. Hard
enforcement means following our current laws, just like other countries. The UK
has problems in the thousands, not double digit millions. We
can't afford the dishonesty of business and foreign citizens to continue
RichardB, the most enforcement in 40 years has come under Obama. I know first
hand what ICE and DOJ are doing in this arena. But immigration is not the same
as murder, not even close. You want a militaristic society? Haven't we
gone too far? Frankly, the concept raised by "high school fan" is the
best idea yet, a combination of regulation and free market principles. Throw in
better efforts to help other countries improve their own circumstances and it
will be effective. Finally, the U.S. isn't the only country with this
issue. In the end, wherever there is opportunity and better conditions, those
places will attract immigrants. This has been the case throughout human
history, and hard enforcement will prove futile and create a police state. We
can do better.
Here is a simple fix, open the borders but make everyone register so we know who
is here. No cost for a fence or for enforcement. Everybody registers, gets a
number , pays all the taxes but the catch is they don't get to collect
anything unless they become citizens.There would be no social security
paid out unless you were a citizen, no refund of income taxes they would have to
pay, no using of Obama care, nothing until they legal and spoke English .I
am sure the idea would have to be refined a little but it sure seems to me that
this would be much easier than that we are currently trying to do.
We will never stop murder either. But enforcement will deter the majority by
making it not pay to come here illegally. The rest (complete families) can be
arrested by local officers, and returned by the Federal government. Local
enforcement was promised in 1986 and 1996. Hard enforcement is the
only answer, amnesty just continues the same pattern of the past 27 years.
It's become a joke, one day the worm will turn.
You will never, ever stop illegal immigration - at least not as long as this
remains the land of opportunity.
Most of my family came here legally through Ellis Island. They were issued
permission to disembark certificates from the U.S. Government before they were
allowed to board a ship to come here. If they did not have the certificate, they
could not get off the ship, and the captain was responsibile for their return.
Before 1965 we averaged 500,000 people coming here legally each
year, compare that to over a million a year now. (legally). These people had to
make it on their own, and if they couldn't, they returned home. Before 1965
i/3 of those who came here legally returned to their country.The
rest of my family came from Mexico legally. Only the immediate family was
allowed then, there was no expended familys to create long lines and plug up the
system. Breaking the law always takes a chunk of time out of peoples
lives to make things right. If we don't deport them, we will have the same
problem in the future. Business, government and pro-illegal
organizations need to clean up their act. Under our current laws businessment
have committed millions of felonies, and it needs to stop.
Uh, how were your ancestors penalized for coming here?
Americans who have paid thousands of dollors to clear their name over ID theft,
need to be paid back before any action is taken. Business needs to be fined
before any action is taken. The only reason we hear cries for
compassion, for breaking immigration laws, over other forms of criminal
behavior, is the supply of cheap labor. Deporting 12 million,
according to a government study done in 2007 by the Immigrations and Customs
Enforcement agency put the cost at 94 billion. This is a one time cost, that
does not include self deportation. The Federation for American Immigration
Reform puts the cost of illegal immigration at $113 billion per year. When you
add in the boost to our economy from putting millions of Americans back to work
in non agriculture jobs, we can't afford not to.
Tea party needs to go berserk on him too.
I know a few folks here illegally. Hard working, good families with older kids
not born here but who do not remember their home country and younger kids who
were born here and are citizens.Unless we want to create a permanent
underclass (with all the criminal negatives that implies) we need to bring those
older kids fully into the American system as the Dream Act proposes.The parents? Perhaps we forgo the discussion on citizenship for them for now
and just concentrate on a legal means to a permanent residency. But we need to
bring them all "above the table".We may not want to admit
it, but our country invited them here with a wink and a nod. We effectively
said "don't cross the border but, if you do, I have a job for you".
We did this over several administrations. Many of the families here have been
here for decades.Let them pay the penalties and fines. Let them
wait a bit for citizenship (the adults). Whatever. But let's be realistic
on how to proceed.
Headline of the day: Chaffetz Moves Gradually Toward Reality
the US has been lax on border enforcement for years as well as emigrants
overstaying their passes so we are part of the problem.Illegals
generally do not have the money or time to go back home, wait, etc. etc. this is
a major upset in their lives even iv you could sort them all out. Forget it.A pathway to law abiding, contributing illegals should be established
without the impossible requirement that they break up their families, leave the
country etc. etc. Put yourselves in their place and see if the shoe fits for you
under the circumstances. But, lets close and fence the border first.
We have a path to citizenship. Obey the law and come here legally.Anything else just rewards criminal acts.Only a fool would
advocate giving bank robbers a 50% bonus for robbing the bank, but that is
exactly what we are doing by pushing any sort of amnesty scheme under whatever
euphemism it might be sold.Enforce the laws, all of them, or we will
see that none of our laws will be obeyed by anyone.
I tend to be sympathetic to the plight of illegal immigrants in general, many of
whom are here illegally as an act of desperation in an attempt to provide for
their families, and I tend to favor illegal immigration solutions that are
compassionate and not punitive for the sake of being punitive . . . but I take
issue with the concept of a "pathway to citizenship" as part of the
solution. I don't think that is what is needed, and in many cases, it
isn't what is wanted. What I think we should really be talking about is a
"pathway to legally-documented status". There should be a formal
acknowledgement on the part of the illegal immigrant that they have violated
immigration law (a signed affidavit and a "flag" on their government
records), and there should probably be a probation requirement associated with
that acknowledgement, but there should also be a reasonable process whereby they
can seek and receive legal documented status. Citizenship should be a separate
process, one which these individuals can apply for on equal standing with other
applicants -- once they have gained (or regained) legal documented status.
I hope Chaffetz has changed his tune since his first campaign suggestedd the
illegals go into camps.Four myths of illegal immigration:Myth #1 Illegal immigrations steal jobs. In 1980 Fidel Castro made the
surprise announcement that anybody who wanted to leave Cuba could do so; as a
result more than 125,000 Cubans swamped the Miami labor market What was the
result? Nothing. No increase in unemployment. Myth #2 Previous
immigrants worked hard to become American, whereas Mexicans refuse to assimilate
or evenlearn English.Actually the rates of English learning for
Mexican immigrants are comparable to the rates found in the immigrant
communities of the late 19th and early 20th centuries.Myth #3:
Previous immigrants were not illegal, making them more legitimate. The very
concept of legality of immigrants is new. The first nonspecific immigration
restrictions of the kind we use today were not in place until the mid-20th
century.Myth #4: Liberalizing immigration laws would trigger a
flood of immigrants.Late 20th-century attempts to make border crossings
more difficult for illegal immigrants led to more staying in the United States
instead of going back home. They did not want to risk not getting back in.
It is nice to see Chaffetz finally showing some humanity and compassion. I hope
others in the Republican party will follow suit. On civil rights and
social/moral issues, the GOP is slow to move, but after a lot of painful
pouting, the party eventually moves in the right direction. I also hope the
wisdom of the straight approach will prevail. These immigrants do not need to
be punished. Rather, they need to be integrated and the sooner the better.
@JackI will tell you what will NOT work; preachers, police chiefs and
politicians lining up as apologists for illegal aliens.The likelihood of
an illegal alien receiving any resistance at all is near zero. No pushback.
None. Despite all the laws on the books no one is enforcing them. That has
grown worse with Obama. No worksite raids. No SSN No-Match letters. No local
enforcement agreements.In fact, just the opposite. About 300,000 people
who had previously been through the immigration courts and ordered to be
deported suddenly got an Obama reprieve. Don't tell me enforcement
doesn't work until we try it.If we get serious and deport the first
two million just because they are unlawfully present the rest will go home.The problem we have now is that crime pays.
@Neanderthal Pheonix, AZAll that is needed is to enforce
E-Verify and most, if not all will deport themselves. Not only that, they will
stop coming. No jobs, no draw to come here.[You realize that
e-Verify targets the businesses who hire them, don't you? BTW -
e-verify is something THIS liberal has pushed for a long, long time now.]Do nothing except... enforce E-Verify. Also, don't allow such as
drivers licenses and social benefits such as medicaid. [Driver's
license for illegals is a STATE'S inititive, don't like - call you
state rep.]Raise the income tax rate to fifty percent for illegals.
[Raise it 100%, 500%, 1,000% - It doesn't matter. Businesses
pay illegals cash under the table so there isn't a money trail to audit --
that's why neither the business NOR the illegals pay any taxes.]"Any ideas?"Yes. See above.11:24 p.m. Sept. 2,
2013[Except for e-Verify -- Your ideas are full of holes.]
Looks like the "cheap labor force" lobby groups final gave Jason a
campaign contribution ($) check big enough to change his mind...
@Jack:"We cannot round up and deport 11 million undocumented aliens,
so let's stop thinking that deportation will solve the matter."They don't have to be rounded up. All that is needed is to enforce
E-Verify and most, if not all will deport themselves. Not only that, they will
stop coming. No jobs, no draw to come here."There has to be a
way to penalize the illegals, get those who do it right to the front of the
line, and secure the border so this dike doesn't keep leaking."Securing the border solves only about half of the problem. The rest are
visa overstays."It will take statesmanship, leadership and
vision."Do nothing except... enforce E-Verify. Also, don't
allow such as drivers licenses and social benefits such as medicaid. Raise the
income tax rate to fifty percent for illegals. In other words, do what Mexico
does to their illegal immigrants."Any ideas?"Yes. See above.
A special "pathway to citizenship" for invaders would be like giving a
special pathway to wealth for those who rob banks and embezzle money. Those
jumping though all the hoops to do it right and follow the law should be the
ones, if any, who get preferential treatment, while those who ignore the law and
demand everything should be convinced that we're not a nation of pushover
enablers. Or are we?
Jack well said. Both sides are going to have give a little and meet somewhere
in the middle. It appears we are starting to make a degree of progress in that
direction. Statesmanship has become a rarity in today's polarized and
partisan political environment.
Let's be practical here. We cannot round up and deport 11 million
undocumented aliens, so let's stop thinking that deportation will solve the
matter. Not enough space for detention, not enough courts to handle the load.
The end state we all want is legal immigration, but we don't want amnesty.
So, the solution is far from clear. There has to be a way to penalize the
illegals, get those who do it right to the front of the line, and secure the
border so this dike doesn't keep leaking. It will take statesmanship,
leadership and vision. So who wants to step up and be the one to solve this
mess? Someone with no political aspirations as they most likely will burn lots
of bridges, someone who isn't beholden to one special interest or another,
and someone who can actually lead through the fog.Any ideas?
Let's say we have a problem...like speeding in a school zone.Would
you accept the decision of your police department to give speeders coupons for
free donuts rather than a ticket as a way to address the problem?Of course
not. Deterrence comes about when you ENFORCE the law, not reward illegal
behavior.At this time in our country ONE THIRD of all foreign-born are
here illegally. Taken together with those who have received some form of
amnesty, that number grows to HALF.Thomas Sowell said: Let's go back
to square one. The purpose of American immigration laws and policies is not to
be either humane or inhumane to illegal immigrants. The purpose of immigration
laws and policies is to serve the national interest of this country. There is no
inherent right to come live in the United States, in disregard of whether the
American people want you here. Nor does the passage of time confer any such
right retroactively. (end quote)Let's get back to enforcement
rather than pandering to segments of the population!
Right now people who are here illegally face a 10 year ban if deported. I can
see lifting that ban for 6 months, and have the people return to their homeland.
Then they could apply, and stand in line like the rest of honest people, with no
10 year ban. It would require returning to immediate family
sponsorship, instead of the extended sponsorship that we have now. Extended
families create long lines, and keep many out that have no relatives here. Business would not get amnesty either. They would have to pay for their
illegal workers relocation costs. Punishment with humanity, it does
not compensate Americans for id theft, and social security fraud.This along with border enforcement, e-verify, interior enforcement would solve
the problem. Congress should be put in charge of enforcement to make it happen.
Amnesty begets amnesty, only enforcement will stop it.