Well considering barack said premiums would not increase at all for middle class
americans...and they are
How affordable is health care when you can't afford insurance or have a pre
The headline poses an excellent question. One some seem to feel doesn't
matter.We are on our way to a fiscal disaster, but nobody seems to
care. As long as they get more free stuff, or a political win out of it.
Obamacare was designed to fail from the outset. The Dear Leader's
socialist agenda is loud and clear. He wants a one-payer health system that
Is $98 for a bag of saline affordable? That is the standard hospital charge for
a bag of saline, which is less than $1 to produce.Then there is the $127
fee the hospital charges to administer the bag of saline to the patient.The better question is how can we not afford republicare (if you're being
honest you will acknowledge that 'Obamacare' was the republican's
plan in the 90s)?
Ernest T. Bass,RE: "Is $98 for a bag of saline
affordable"?And what exactly in ObamaCare changes that? It
doesn't! It only changes who pays for it. There's not one
regulation in the bill that changes what something costs.When are
you going to acknowledge that ObamaCare does NOTHING to change what anything
Well, first of all, Obamacare has hardly even begun, just let Mr. Marxism and
the Democrats have a few years on this beast and the cost is goign to skyrocket.
Only fools and the hopelessly naive believe healthcare costs are not going to go
through the roof with this abominable piece of freedom and money stealing
legislation. Obama should be put in jail for his lies about this law, and Harry
Reid and Nancy Pelosi and a herd of Democrats should go with him.
The closer we get to October 1st, when Utahns can start shopping for coverage on
the new insurance marketplace (heathcare.gov), the more people will realize that
Obamacare offers better options for getting insured. First, the private
insurance available on Utah marketplace is going to be affordable. Last week the
Utah Dept. of Insurance announced that at a 27 year-old resident of Salt Lake
County will pay as little as $162/month for the middle-range private insurance
on the new marketplace. A 40 year-old will pay as little as $173/month. This is
private insurance offered by SelectHealth, Altius, Humana, etc. And those prices
are before the premium subsidies that will make insurance more affordable for
270,000 Utahns. Second, the marketplace insurance will be
high-quality--covering maternity care, hospitalization, and prescription drugs.
Plus, after January 1st, insurance companies can no longer deny coverage because
of a pre-existing condition, or charge women more than men. No more lifetime
caps on benefits, and more free preventative care like flu shots and well-child
checks. This is the real Obamacare.
Is Obamacare affordable? I am far less worried about the increasing health
insurance premiums as I am about the inevitable fraud and abuses of Obamacare.
Right now, anyone can sign up for taxpayer subsidized healthcare on the
"honor system" according to Obama! No oversight, no system to catch the
cheaters and millions of Americans and illegal aliens will cheat the system and
that will NOT be affordable! Millions of employers are already struggling with
the mandates which will only exacerbate the problem. Having the government in
your doctor's office with you will be very expensive because there will be
no limits or system to catch the overbilling the fraudulent claims which all
together will cost taxpayers trillions! Some say Obamacare is designed to fail
because Americans will demand a single payer system which will not solve the
abuses at all, it just consolidates them. Does anyone think the food stamp
program is full of abuses and fraud? You have not seen anything yet but you
What's affordable is a single payer system that pays half as much like
One (of many) of the problems with Obamacare is that many young people will
choose to NOT purchase healthcare. As will many who could get subsidies. They
will simply choose to pay the penalty.This, of course, will simply
keep the rates for all the rest of us skyrocketing. Also, exactly WHO is
subsidizing? The answer, obviously, is ALL of us who do purchase health
insurance!Obamacare is a system designed to fail.Thats when
the REAL problems will start.
redshirt007,Ever been to the UK? Ever noticed how many people are
missing teeth? It's not just lack of oral hygiene, it's because when
you have a tooth problem, all that's covered is tooth extraction (just like
on Medicare in the US).I cant wait till we are ALL on that system!
"How can I disrespect this President? ---- Let me count the ways"The healthcare issue should have been settled in the Nixon, Ford,
Carter, or Reagan administrations, when costs could have been controlled better
and before billions went to making hospital corporations and pill pushers
rich.This is a good start -- but you can't expect a complete
mess to be fixed on the first attempt, so refinement will follow.Shame on the House Republicans for taking 40 votes to repeal it, when they
could have voted for jobs, for improvements to health care, and far more.For me, the present republican party borders on treasonous, because they
do not care for helping America (except their contributors), only for winning by
Too much private enterprise. If it is repealed next step will be total
governmental control. The conservatives will not go for the Republican plan.
Similar to train wreck of the Bush years.
A lot of my friends are getting their hours cut at their jobs. My initial take
of the Affordable Care Act isn't good even as I truly try to stay open
minded and hopeful...
@2 bit"all that's covered is tooth extraction (just like on
Medicare in the US"I love when Americans talk about a system
they actually know nothing about. You have the option of going to an NHS
dentist where there are 3 bands of payments. Band 1 (£15) will get you a
check up, X-Rays, scale polish etc, band 2 (£49), fillings, root canal,
tooth extraction, band 3 (£214), crowns, veneers, orthontics.Or you
can go to a private dentist and pay up front or have a private insurance policy
pay for it.If you are on a low income you can get cover for free.
Kids up to 18 get cover for free and pregnant women get cover for free.My NHS dentist is fine, I do have a missing molar thanks to 3 Utah dentists
who cant read an X-Ray though.
Howard Beal, be honest, if your friends are getting their hours cut at work in
order to avoid health care premiums they didn't have health care in the
first place and were all ready working part time jobs. It's rare (and
absolutely immoral) for an employer to cut someone's hours who previously
had health care so that they don't have to buy health care now. Again
employer costs are pretty much constant. All the law did was define full time
by a couple of hours lower than most businesses did previously.
Put me in the skeptics camp. Last year they also reported a "modest"
increase in insurance premiums of around 5%. My company is insured through
Aetna, one of the 3 largest providers in the country. Our premiums jumped over
50% and the other two largest providers followed suit. Other insurers
completely withdrew from the California market. My sister, employed in SLC at a
health care provider firm had their rates jump a similar amount. So first, the
numbers being reported are fiction. Second, look at all the news stories for
the entire year about employee hours being cut and spouse benefits being
eliminated, sweetheart deals for Unions (not sweet enough, they are screaming)
and certain corporations and it is impossible to believe that health care is
becoming more affordable and accessible. Finally, look to the quote from
Senator Reid who basically said, "Of course it was designed to force a
pragmatist,calling Howard a liar? what do you have to back that up other
than baseless assumptions?Forever 21 - clothing store - is doing
it; many Olive garden franchises are doing it. True, they may not now offer
insurance, but Obamacare mandates they offer it to certain employees, so they
are reducing the number of those employees. UPS is no longer offering family
coverage directly because of Obamacare. Anyone who denies that companies are
cutting back on hours and health insurance offerings as a direct result of
Obamacare are being exactly what you accuse Howard of being.
UT Brit,So why are so many Brits missing so many teeth? I noticed it a
LOT more there than I do here. Especially the elderly.I don't
know much detail about the medical system in the UK. But I do know about
Medicare in the US, and if more than a filling is needed, extraction is all
that's covered. Maybe that's why so many of the poor in America are
missing so many teeth. I don't know, but there may be a connection.
Lost: Poor business models and greed are no way to run a business, if you look
at companies who treat employees as an important resource instead of a
replaceable commodity, they're doing great. I can only hope this trend that
Costco uses will catch on, but probably not at walmart or hobby lobby.
Hospital charges out of line? No question about it. There is no effective
competitive forces to keep health provider charges in line with real costs,
especially now that so many hospitals are "for profit" institutions.
But even the so called "non profits" charge based upon what they think
they can get away with rather than actual costs. It is alao true
that the ACA does not address that problem in any meaningful way, because it is
essentially limited reform of the Health Insurance Industry, not the Health
Provider Industry. But it does control costs somewhat by limiting the profit
margin of the health insurers. And we do have one example of a payer system
that does more to control provider costs, and that is the single payer Medicare
@2 bitsI was in the States last year, I saw plenty of people with
messed up teeth. I can play the stereotype game too, shall we start with some
classic American ones? No, because it is a very silly game to play.Statistics wise American kids have more rotten teeth than UK kids, in a 2006
OECD study, American 12 year olds on average will have 1 decayed, filled or
missing tooth. In the UK it is 0.6.I was mainly pointing out that
you in fact didnt know how the UK system worked while professing that you did.
Neither, the exchanges, subsidies, and most of Obamacare hasn't gone into
effect yet. Obamacare has had a trivial impact on costs in either direction the
past couple years because only small pieces of it are in place right now. Ask
the question again 3 years from now.
HVHereticlabor IS a commodity. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling
themselves.UPS is a poor business model? how long have they been
around?Olive Garden is a poor business model? How many of those do
you see in every town?yeah, poor business models may not be an
excuse, but they have no bearing on the examples I cited.
I can proudly report that even with Obamacare my insurance rates have not
increase. I just wish that I could say that I had the same benefits.What people don't see or have not been commenting on is that the
insurance companies have had to cut what they pay for down to a minimum. Just a
year ago I could take a sick child into the doctor and have my child looked over
and it only cost me $25. Now, I have to pay $5000 out of pocket first, then the
insurance will start to pay 80% of the bill.Now that was before full
implementation. I can only imagine how much more will be cut when it all comes
online.So, in order to maintain a similar coverage that I had before
Obamacare I now need to add a HSA to my medical plan.
The current trends without the ACA is obviously unsustainable. My insurance
rates have increased faster than inflation for the last 15 years. And now, to
boot they are cutting benefits.The regulation is absolutely HELPING
the medical community right now make record profits. There is no place on Earth
were the wages and profits are higher than in the US. It's time for the
regulations to bring it back down to a global average among industrialized
nations.There are NO market forces at all right now, or when was the
last time you were offered a price list? When you ask, they can't even tell
you the price. You have to literally sign a blank check when you sign the
hospital admission papers of financial responsibility.
Lost, that was the point generally people who pre ACA didn't have health
care because they were part time employees are now still being classified as
part time. Pre ACA part time was 32 hours or less. Post ACA is >30 hours.
My expertise 40 years of senior HR work. Most of those losing an hour or two
are not losing health care they once had. UPS isn't dropping
family coverage. They are telling some employees that if their spouse has or is
eligible for coverage else where they won't cover them. This is an old,
old, old, corporate trick and has been around for a long time. Also
if you can show where I called Howard a liar please do. I said he needs to be
fully honest and admit that his friends who are losing some hours (probably one
or two) were part time in the first place and not getting health care.
@JeffersonNo, that doesn't prove Obamacare doesn't work.
Ancedotes don't prove that things are happening on a large scale. If there
was a study that showed employer insurance increased, and there was proof it was
Obamacare I would look at it, but it doesn't exist as of now. My guess is
that one of the many other factors that can raise your premium occurred. From
what you said it sounds like your employer has a group policy. A member or two
of your group with high priced claims can cause an increase in premiums, similar
to the way a claim on auto or home insurance increases premiums. Because you
aren't buying an individual policy this can effect premiums for the whole
group. The other thing that happens is many times people blame massive increases
on an insurance company, when it's actually an employer cutting their
premium contributions, so even if the total cost is similar the employee pays
more. Finally, premiums have been increasing each year for decades, much longer
than Obamacare has been around.
pragmatist,you seem to be missing the point.thanks to
Obamacare, MORE people will be pushed into part-time; more people will lose
employer provided insurance. not only will fewer obtain it, but more will lose
it.and we know from the failure in MA that universal insurance does
NOT mean increased access to health care. Obamacare is, was, and always will be
To "Noodlekaboodle" here is some proof that Obamacare is not working:From National Review "Over 100K New Jersey Residents to Lose Their
Affordable Health Plans under Obamacare" I think that making more uninsured
people is not a stated goal of Obamacare.From CNBC "Companies
sweating Obamacare tax—and acting on it: Study" There they found that
over 80% of the businesses surveyed expect some icrease in the cost of insurance
or else cuts in benefits.CBS news found that "Obamacare to raise
claims cost 32 percent, study shows".So lets go over the goals
of Obamacare. First, is to make it cheaper. Its second is to get everybody
covered under insurance.The results of Obamacare has been to make it
more expensive for both businesses and individuals. It has also made it so more
people have lost their insurance coverage.It is a failure based on
the goals that we were told about.
Yes it is affordable... if you are rich or poor. Thats about it. the plan
doesn't make sense - getting uninsurable people insurance is great, but
making people do it if they don't want it is rediculous. It makes married
people who both work pay twice the amount that 2 people living together but not
married would pay. How is that fair?
Whenever the government takes over something and gives it a name, you can be
sure it means just the opposite. I don't care who comes up with a system -
Obama, the Democrats, the Republicans, Libertarians, etc; our basic sick-care
system is broken everywhere you turn. Our medical education system is outdated
and under the control of the pharmaceutical industry. As is the FDA. There are
few if any doctors who spend the time or have the skill to ferret out causes,
they treat symptoms with drugs, surgery or radiation while less expensive more
effective treatments are shunned. Then go to a typical grocery chain
and the food is of such poor nutritional quality and so laden with pesticides,
preservatives, dyes, and artificial ingredients they should put the ingredients
list in a drawing of a test tube with noxious vapors bubbling out - then add a
big question mark for what they are hiding. Then there is all the gene
tweaking and monocropping by the megafarm$ leading to major destruction of our
soil and food supply you've got to hope nature has a miracle recovery
plan. Is the Affordable-Care-Act affordable?! WRONG question, wrong
You all are missing the upside of Obamacare. It will create millions of new
jobs. 4,000,000 full-time jobs will become 6,000,000 part time jobs (without
insurance).I know having the government take care of us sounds nice.
However, ask any small business owner how likely they are to hire over the next
few years. Most I know are sitting things out until they see just how bad
things are going to be.UT BRIT - I visit Europe regularly and if I
ever got sick in England - I would take the next train to France. Of course in
France, they have started offering health insurance because the government cuts
back on what they will cover each year.You cannot get something for
nothing and, when the government is involved, your more likely to get nothing
for a lot of something (new taxes).
While it may be too early to judge how ACA will really affect us, to prepare,
hours ARE being cut in the work places. Yes, this is done mostly to people who
don't already qualify for health insurance (i.e. they work part-time).
Under the old plan, employees who worked part-time had more flexibility in their
work hours than they do now, collectively speaking. Under ACA, my
employer has to scrutinize through extensive documentation and reporting how
long each PT employee works and has to retain a record of it for auditing
purposes - an administrative nightmare. If PT employees work anything over
(even one minute over) 125 hours during a calendar month, they would immediately
qualify for benefits and would have to be enrolled. From a business
perspective, it's tedious to track and lethal to the pocketbook if a PT
employee goes over. Therefore, cutting back hours makes business sense, but
there is still great expense to set up the procedures and policies & there
has to be accountability & training established to those who track time -
the supervisors who sometimes think/feel they have better things to do. Is ACA
affordable? From my arguments here, not for business.
RE: "Jefferson Kalispell, MTPut me in the
skeptics camp. Last year they also reported a "modest" increase in
insurance premiums of around 5%. My company is insured through Aetna, one of the
3 largest providers in the country. Our premiums jumped over 50% and the other
two largest providers followed suit. Other insurers completely withdrew from the
California market. My sister, employed in SLC at a health care provider firm had
their rates jump a similar amount. So first, the numbers being reported are
fiction. Second, look at all the news stories for the entire year about employee
hours being cut and spouse benefits being eliminated, sweetheart deals for
Unions (not sweet enough, they are screaming) and certain corporations and it is
impossible to believe that health care is becoming more affordable and
accessible. Finally, look to the quote from Senator Reid who basically said,
"Of course it was designed to force a single-payer system." "If your coverage jumped up 50% that is insane!!! My company also uses
Aetna and ours only went up 4%. Something doesn't seem right in your area
of the country.
@KingloreRE: "JeffersonKalispell, MTPut me in the skeptics camp. Last year they also reported a "modest"
increase in insurance premiums of around 5%. My company is insured through
Aetna, one of the 3 largest providers in the country. Our premiums jumped over
50% and the other two largest providers followed suit. ======= Tell me, did your health change?, did your costs to them suddenly go up
50% over nothing?They [insurance companies] are gouging you while they
still can, because under ADA, the mean old nasty Government will regulate
then and can and will limit their premiums at modest rates.[Like the mean
old nasty Government does with your adjustable mortgage loan rates 1%+/- maximum
per year, or your Utility rates must also get approval from the mean old nasty
Government.] What you are witnessing is called greed - let the
"free" market decide. i.e., Gettin' 'while
the gettin's good!They are giving you healthcare just to make
you happy or healthy.They are a "BUSINESS"and healthcare is
the widget they are selling you.It's what businesses are in
business to do, make money - the more money, the better.Care about
you?Only in their commercials.
to 2bits .... There is one thing that will work to control how the money is
spent, if not the actual cost of healthcare services and products. If a for
profit insurance company doesn't spend 80% (85% for non profit) of all the
premiums on actual healthcare ..then they MUST refund the extra money collected
back to the customers! Wow, to think that an insurance company can't direct
huge amounts of the premiums on paying shareholders profits, executive bonuses
and pushing sale pitches... but actual healthcare to humans -- what a concept. I
believe it will help hold costs in check to the consumer.I think
that healthcare is a basic societal right just like how we have determined
access to electricity is a basic right... a regulated cost-managed public
utility. Clear out the profit motive for insurance providers... let them live
with a certain good return like they do in most every other developed nation on
earth, and just like the public utilities companies do in this country.