"The bigger question we should be asking is Utah guilty of being too
Republican? "Answer - NO. This is not merely a Utah problem.
It is a national problem.And it is by design. Our politics have
become more polarized than ever before.Most people operate
politically on "us vs them".Regardless of what "them"
does, we must find fault, first and foremost. Anything OTHER than fault is
unacceptable. Just ask Chris Christie.And it is the same on both
the R and D side. Both sides do good and bad. Elected officials on both sides
do things we like and things we don't. Unfortunately, we accept our own
bad and find away to condemn "their" good.Our politics used
to be driven by our ideology. Now, our ideology is driven by our politics.We would be much better off it the "us vs them" were Americans
against our politicians.Good luck with that.
If we have to have parties (and there is a lot to argue against them) then I
think the best govt. is 51% vs 49%. Whichever side is in power sits
precariously and knows that any shenanigans that are uncovered will give the
next election to the other party.Such a balance also highlights the
need for compromise and to treat the party out of power fairly (knowing that it
could well be your party out of power after the next election cycle).
Utah is a victim of it's own intolerance and lack of diversity.The
results to Society and the individual is stripping of free agency of freedom of
choice.Must... vote... for... the... "R"... [or
else].BTW - One Party systems are the fertile grounds for
Totalitarian States.The USSR, the Taliban, Nazi Germany, North Korea,
Sorry Mr. Cramer, I don't get the premise of your article. You point to one
person's problems and then try to extrapolate that into a party issue? So
if the Attorney General had been a Democrat this wouldn't have happened?
Or because he's a Republican, he's not being investigated thoroughly
enough? Huh? By the way, I happen to generally agree with what you're
saying regarding one party rule, abuse can and does happen when one party rules
too long (look no further than Detroit) particularly if that party is a party of
numbskulls but you're reasoning in this article is faulty. P.S. Utah has
been dominantly Republican rule for many years and what has resulted? We are
constantly voted the best run state in the union, we have extremely low
unemployment compared to other States, businesses move here to get away from
unfriendly business laws in their own state, we are a right to work state, our
cities are clean and and relatively safe. Sounds horrible.
@BifftacularThere is one reason for this (and it has nothing to do with
politicians) and every thing to do with the owner of this paper. During the
recession what other city had a 2 billion construction project going in their
city center? What other city had a major employer that doesn't lay people
off nearly as much as the rest of the corporate world did(SLC) over the years
the LDS church has pumped billions upon billions into Utahs economy. Most states
would be better off if that happened to them. The LDS church's money props
up the legislator and allows them to look like they are doing a much better job
than they really are.
Let's be honest, Gayle Ruzika is the only ruler in Utah.
Noodle, thanks for making my point. The church's project did help the State
- no question. And quess what, the majority oy those people are Republicans. You
can't separate the two. The church is damned if they do and damned if they
don't. They were criticized severely for the project and now you're
saying the project is the sole reason Utah is a good state to live in. I
don't know if I should laugh or what.
I see the DN hired LDS?lib as their moderator again as my prior comment that
says nothing more than what LDS?lib said was rejected.LDS?lib,you agree then that all the solid blue states can be called totalitarian,
since they are ruled by one party?must.. criticize...
@BiffWhile many LDS legislators would believe what you say I actually take
what the LDS church says about these projects at face value. And what
they've said is that they don't want their world headquarters next to
a run down dump of a city center, so they spent the money to make it really
nice. Which helped the economy, they were also a very stable institution
finacially, and didn't have to make deep employment cuts during the
recession. That's not the legislator, that's not republicans(LDS
church will is non partisan, ask them) that's money from democrats and
republicans and independents and communists and anyone inbetween, put into a
pot, and spent by the LDS church. As much as you would like to think it, the LDS
church isn't an arm of the republican party. In fact, that thinking is
exactly what the letter is railing against.
I tend to agree with what the letter writer is saying. But like was pointed
out... it's not just a Utah problem. There are other one-party States
(many of them blue). But voting party line is always a bad idea in my book.
I've never voted straight ticket and don't know anybody who has. I think most people realize if they vote straight ticket they are voting
blindly. But I also understand that it's really hard to get REAL
information on individual candidates (where we don't have time to go to our
caucus meetings or listen to debates, so all we get to base your decision on is
the artfully created infomercials with very skewed info and all the radio and
television commercials that are not based on reality we get bombarded with).We should not vote straight ticket (for either side). But we should
also know the candidates. I know... that's asking a lot.
I guess it is ok for Detroit, Los Angeles, etc. to have Democratic control for
50+ years. Utah is doing pretty good, it could be better. Putting more
Democrats here would not help.
I can't even talk about republican's and democrats anymore. If you
want to talk about that, I've risen above their discourse and will only
talk about real issues. That being said I completely agree with the author.
To "LDS Liberal" the sad thing about your rants is the fact that what
you state that you most hate about Utah or Conservatives or the GOP is usually
something you or liberals are guilty of.You say that in Utah people
feel pressure to vote Democrat, yet if you look at what the government was
involved in last Presidential election, the Democrats were doing everything in
their power to not just put pressure on people to vote democrat, but to
eliminate all opposition to democrat causes.If Utah is so bad, how
do you explain the fact that it has been getting national recognition for how
well the state is run, how business friendly it is, and how many of its cities
are the best places to raise kids. Yes we know you hate it here and you
don't like the LDS culture that has developed here, but apparently it
works, and we receive many praises for the freedoms that Utah has held onto.Do you want Utah to become like Democrat dominated Chicago or Detroit?
Why destroy something that works for freedom just to have liberals elected?
"Utah is a victim of it's own intolerance and lack of diversity.The results to Society and the individual is stripping of free agency of
freedom of choice."Well...We are only the number one run state
in the US. We have one of the lowest unemployment rates. I missed
the mandate that took away my free-agency. Was that last legislative
session?What exactly are the consequences of our supposed
intolerance and lack of diversity? I guess I missed that one too.Should I cancel my trip to California this fall? My kids are going to college
right now. Are they in approved courses of study? Which ones are those?Just checking....
Did Mr.Cramer know something about John Swallow before the election that the
rest of us didn't know?I'm still not sure from his opinion
piece why one-party rule has been so bad for Utah; just that we voters are bad
for voting Republican. It seems to me that the state is run pretty well and
that we have one of the top economies in the nation.It's
evident why one-party rule is a disaster in California, Illinois, New York etc.
They are all bankrupt, but not one-party Utah, run by Republicans.
Ah, the "diversity" card. In my not so humble opinion, diversity is not
a positive unless those from a diverse background pull together for a common
goal. Otherwise all you have is confusion. It is my understanding that when
the ancient nations conquered other peoples and took them to live in their
homeland to avoid the conquered peoples from organizing and revolting, the
conquered peoples altered the society and culture of the conquering nation until
it was, in turn, overrun by another more organized, and united peoples. The
conquerors had become diffuse and unfocused.It is rich to have the
upper class either in location, education (as they suppose) or status in
society, preach to the rest of us how "good" it is to have multicultural
neighborhoods, multilingual schools and societies all the while they sit
cocooned by zone and income in a rather uniform, mono-linguistic world.I think the good doctor is upset that his view of the world, state and
society is not taken as prescribed. Politics is a contact sport, at least for
egos. And I really don't see the present Democratic party compromising on
anything, hence recalcitrance on the part of the opposition.
The idea that we need to become more liberal to be a better state is ridiculous.
Democrats never complain about 1-party rule in Democratic controlled states and
cities, even though those places are the most poorly run. It is not just Chicago
and Detroit, but look at all the most dangerous cities in America. Which one is
run by Republicans. Look at the cities and states in the most financial trouble,
the vast majority are controlled by one party, democrats.It is true
that the LDS Church is a large contributor to Utah's economy, but much of
this is to the chagrin of most Democrats. They don't lie, the Church, and
would be happy to see it leave town. And the overwhelming majority of the church
Members are Republicans, or vote Republican. The idea that Mormons only vote
Republican because they don't understand their own Church's doctrine
is stupid. Conference talks are very morally Conservative.It is fool
hearty for Democrats to expect Utahns to vote for them just for the sake of a
more balanced political scene. Really, who votes for a philosophy they disagree
with in the name of balance? No one intelligent.
Noodle, I still don't understand your point. Yup, the downtown project
helped the economy - we agree there. But Utah's economy was relatively good
before that and it will be after as well. Why? Because we have been a very well
run state. What does what you're saying have to do with the author's
point that scandals like Swallow can be attributed to the rule of the Republican
party in Utah? Are you agreeing with the author or not? If not, what is your
@WhatisTucketBut you fail to mention failed republican policies in
Mississippi, Alabama and West Virginia. The fact is there are many states where
one party has been in charge for a long time, and most of them aren't doing
well, whether it's Republicans or Democrats that have been in charge. There
is one difference between California, Alabama, Mississippi and Utah. Those
states don't have churches that put an amount 3.5x larger than the states
GDP into the economy, for 5 straight years, in the worst recession since the
1920's. That's what got Utah through better than these other states,
not Republicans, not Democrats. It's purely because of the $$$, City Creek
was basically a private stimulus package, courtesy of the LDS church. I'm
not LDS, I don't agree with them often on social issues. But lets not give
the Legislator credit for what the LDS church did.
Of Utah largest 15 employers in 2011, 11 were either State or Federal
institutions.Something to keep that in mind next time you call for
Personally, if if you find yourself voting heavily for one party or the other, I
suggest you vote for the other party when it comes to Auditor, and/or
Attorney-General. I do.
JoeBlow- I can't believe you are advocating for big government in order to
create jobs. You know you can create jobs by having taxpayers pat people to dig
holes and then just fill them back up. All the jobs "created" by the
government are paid for by taking money out of other industries that actually
produce something of value. Every dime I pay in taxes to create government jobs
could have been used to buy a car or other goods, which creates jobs. The
private sector happens to be more efficient at this than the government.I
believe some of the few places the government should be involved is in
protecting the citizens through police and military, probably fire protection in
some areas, k-12 education, and some infrastructure including roads and bridges.
Noodlekaboodle-The legislature deserves some credit, as do the other local
politicians. If you ever lived in another state or community outside of Utah
where the LDS Church has wanted to build anything, you would see how much grief
and pushback they get. Even the former mayor of SLC, Rocky Anderson, gave the
Church grief over everything. Just look back at the Main Street Plaza
controversy, and how he wanted to prevent the skywalk over Main Street at City
Creek, an important addition.The truth is, I feel that voting for more
Democrats would make it harder for the Church to complete such projects as most
Democrats, even in Utah, like to oppose the Church on so many issues, just to
oppose the Church.So in essence, if you are LDS, voting for Democrats
often times can equal voting against the Church. By the way, why
hasn't SLC had a Republican Mayor since 1974, almost 40 years? Isn't
that 1-party rule? We have had a Democratic governor as recently as 1985. Even
Utah County elected Rep Orton-D, as recent as 1994. So which place is more
politically one sided, SLC, or the State of Utah?
"I can't believe you are advocating for big government in order to
create jobs."Not advocating for it. Just pointing out the
reality. Try closing Hill AFB, or any other one for that matter.
John Swallow won for several reasons. One, he managed to make it to the primary.
Both candidates were bashing each other, or it appeared that way and the voters
ignored the mud.Two, his democratic candidate was from Ogden, where the
police seem to had more slack than West Valley, with no Sim Gill to provide
check because the DA or equiv. in Ogden just seemed to egg it on.It
it had been John Swallow and Sim Gill, we might have seen a different result.
I hope both parties put for better candidates for AG in 2014 or 2016
depending on what happens.You also forget that many bills are
decided in the Utah House by one or two votes. Clearly it isn't party. You
should realize both sides have good ideas.
@lost in DCWest Jordan, UTLDS?lib,you agree then that
all the solid blue states can be called totalitarian, since they are ruled by
one party?must.. criticize... everything... conservative.10:18
a.m. Aug. 27, 2013============I never said that - you
implied it, and assumed it - and you are wrong.A single Party
political system festers corruption.You guys on the right choose to call
it Chicago politics, A single Party system on the right is no different --
CORRUPTION.And this little fiasco with Utah AG John Swallow is
classic example of it.Mote and Beam shall we say...
To "LDS Liberal" are you saying that states that are controlled entirely
by Democrats are not full of corruption and border on totalitarian?Chicago politics does not have to do with one party rule, but by massive
corruption where politicians end their political careers because of jail
time.Just look at the John Swallow situation. The Republicans have
investigated him, and are the ones that are working through impeachment
process.When was the last time Democrats did that to one of their
own?Tell us, if you lived in Seattle, or Michigan would you complain
about the Democrats running everything and how everybody only votes Democrat?
The problem in dealing with extremists is they only see black and white. The
responses are telling. Dr. Cramer never said that he wanted a
majority Democrat. He did not come close to hinting anything of the sort. To throw out the weary talking points that Utah is the number one run
state and has low unemployment is weak. Many dysfunctional families have their
finances in order. What you see on a ledger is different than what you see in
real life. The low unemployment is easy. Low wages and regulation.
Both of these are unsustainable. You have a working class that qualifies for
food stamps. Companies have a choice, China, Mexico or Utah. All of those places
pay low wages and have very little regulation. Nice company we keep....
Joe Blow- The Military is not the majority of the Government, not even close.
But I think getting rid of our IRS and going to a simplified tax code that
didn't require them would improve the economy greatly, and save a ton of
money. The Majority of government employees are not needed, and we would be
better off to get rid of them.LDS Lib- as Mentioned by Red Shirt,
Republicans try to get rid of the corrupt, Democrats usually do not. How long
did it take for a prominent Dem to call for Filner's resignation in San
Diego after it was clear he was sexually harassing women? What have Dems done to
clean up Chicago, or Detroit, or New Jersey? What Dems were calling for John
Corzine to go to prison? Rod Blagojevich tried to sell a Senate Seat, not to
mention Jesse Jackson Jr, who many Dems supported long after his issues came up.
The Dem Mayor of Pittsburgh is in trouble as well. Republicans are doing
something about Swallow, unfortunately Dems believe decisions should be made
based on what the SL Trib reports alone without a thorough investigation to
verify the facts.
"The Military is not the majority of the Government, not even close."No, it is not more than 50% of the govt. But it is substantial.In fact, the American Department of Defense is the largest employer in
the world.It employes 1% of Americans.
For being "highly educated" a lot of people seem unable to think very
"To throw out the weary talking points that Utah is the number one run state
and has low unemployment is weak. Many dysfunctional families have their
finances in order. What you see on a ledger is different than what you see in
real life.The low unemployment is easy. Low wages and regulation.
Both of these are unsustainable...."Yes I can see why the
talking points are weary...they just don't support your narrative and so we
just wave our hand and dismiss them. But...The fact
remains and looms large. Your statement "The low unemployment
is easy. " Maybe you should call the white house and let Pres. Obama in on
Samson01S. Jordan, UTLow unemployment is easy. Pay low wages
and hire more people. It is unsustainable in that employees qualify for public
assistance.If you want to talk about underemployed then you may have
People should never vote for something different just for the sake of diversity.
Anything alternative to the current status quo has to have something better to
offer, regardless of the parties involved. Not until Democrats can
offer better solutions and better ideas in Utah should anyone even consider
voting for them. It's ludicrous for anyone to vote for them (or anyone
else) for any other reason. In other words, diversity... in and of itself... is
not always better.
"To punch a straight ticket is worse than an unhealthy allegiance to some
brand of toothpaste. We in Utah are smarter than that." Apparently the Utah
GOP doesn't think you are smart enough to choose the right candidates. We
know the Utah Democrat Party is controlled by a very small group and they will
not support a Primary system. The Utah voters don't care about them because
they are Democrats but surely they are smart enough to choose their own