Published: Wednesday, Aug. 21 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT
Many conservative states seem to be saying that 20 weeks should be the cutoff
for abortions. I think liberals should agree to this, and then we can all call a
truce on this divisive issue.
I agree wholeheartedly that the rhetoric surrounding this issue is unnecessarily
overheated. However, the author quickly slips into blame, blame, blame. In the
end, it's all the pro-choice advocates' fault for not ceding any
ground. How about take a look in the mirror, you might just find a beam. Did
the author somehow miss when anti-abortion crowd passed laws forcing rape
victims to surrender to transvaginal ultrasounds? Or how about the laws being
passed in many states that, while not directly outlawing abortion, are putting
the kinds of restrictions on clinics that make it virtually impossible to
operate in that state. The so-called heartbeat bills passed in other states
that are in direct violation of the constitution. I'm sorry, but this is
in no wise a one-sided issue. Roe v Wade attempted to balance the
rights of the mother and the baby, and the dividing line became
"viability"--that line is generally around 24 weeks. Some babies do
survive from 20 weeks, the vast majority do not. Is it worth risking the life
of the mother in some cases, on the less than 1% chance the baby could survive?
Ironic again...The DN uses the French, Germans, and the rest of and
other nations as an example of "good".Usually, it's the other
way around.The sad fact is -- most businesses WANT America to be
like communist China, including abortion and low birth rates. Babies are BAD for
business and their bottom dollar.BTW - they all have Government
controlled "Socialized" universal single-payer systems too.Why the
double standard hypocrisy?
I think the controversy gets generated on the pro-life side as well. Some are
absolutists - no abortion at any time for any reason. This is, of course, in
contrast to some on the pro-choice side for which abortion should be available
for any reason and at nearly any stage of development. Conflict among the most
strident on each side is virtually guaranteed.For our nation, it
would seem best if we could get this (somehow) out of the political realm and
back into the medical sphere. No matter which side of the debate you land on,
abortion is a lousy method of birth control and should be a last ditch option
when medical need determines it is appropriate. It would then likely be done
more often than some prefer but much less often than now.But how do
we get it out of the political sphere. That is the trick and I have no good
answer. Quite honestly I think some would miss the issue going away. It is a
useful tool to fan the political flames on both sides.
I'm sorry but this is not one of those, well there are extremists on both
sides issues. The Republican party as an entity would stand up and cheer if Roe
v Wade was abolished. Can you find someone who identifies as a Democrat who
wants unfettered abortions, yea, probably, but you're going to have to look
long and hard. The Republicans have completely moved from a fact,
science based position to an entirely religious belief based position.
Heartbeats, brain activity etc. don't mean life and especially don't
mean viability, all those things can be produced in a lab separate and apart
from one another. This is entirely a partisan political strategy
promoted by one side.
And what about the mandatory ultrasounds? The mandatory visits? The shutting
down of clinics by imposing arbitrary regulations? The requirement that abortion
providers have admitting privileges to hospitals (and then in Ohio's case
banning hospitals from providing them admitting privileges)? Oh
and... the compromise (this whole 20 week thing) involves supporting something
that has been ruled unconstitutional by federal courts.
LDS Liberal,Can you explain in some detail how bad bad businesses are the
ones who want late term abortions, and "Babies are BAD for business and
their bottom dollar"?I think you're going to have a hard
time substantiating that claim.- Without babies... who are they
going to sell their next generation of products too?- Without babies...
who is going to work in their factories, stores, or work for their suppliers,
etc?Fact is... when families start having babies... their spending
increases significantly (and bad bad business LIKE when people's spending
and consumption of their product increases). That's how they stay in
business and grow their business.So why... would they be against
babies?That's just absurd anti-business blather.I
think we SHOULD have a limit on deciding to abort a baby as late as you want for
any reason.That's why I didn't understand the furry in the
left's response to Texas even talking about limiting late-term abortions.
"trying to wipe out abortion rights" (as the leftists put it). Google
it and read some of the rants in the Huffington Post and NY Times.
There is no such thing as the right to life. You can’t buy it, you
can’t sell it. You can’t even give it away. Life is just something
that happens. It comes and goes of its own accord. We might think we create
life when we bring the proper ingredients together, but life itself is something
more than a mechanical process. We don’t make it happen. The
issue of abortion is an issue of control. The powers seeking to control others
have as their number one resource the number of people in their flock. Their
number one source of new members is the birth of new members by current members.
Hence the religious concern over birth control and abortion.
Re: "There is an abortion consensus"Okay, let's agree
on a post 20-week ban.But, only as a starting point.Once
that's in place, we'll use that well-worn liberal tactic --
incrementalism -- to go after whatever we can get next.And, after
that? We'll keep pushing.Make no mistake, the abortion problem
will not be "solved," and its stench cannot be purged from America,
until Roe v. Wade and its phony "right" to an abortion have been
properly consigned to the dustbin of history, and the human rights of the
innocent unborn are once again honored and protected.
Nobody likes abortions. They are, however, sometimes a medical necessity. Who
gets to decide what constitutes "necessary" is the issue.
"Pro-choice" advocates say that this is a personal decision properly
left to the woman and her doctor. "Pro-life" advocates
don't want women to have that option, claiming that they are acting solely
on behalf of unborn babies.That argument would have credibility if
the same people claiming to be motivated by "life" had some kind of
follow-up position indicating that they care as much about the health and
well-being of children after they're born. But they don't - not
remotely. Every position taken by today's hyper-conservatives involves
cutting programs for the medical care, nutrition, and early education of
children. Their actions reveal that they in fact couldn't care less about
the well-being of children. If your goal is to dramatically lower
the rate of abortions, then you have to acknowledge the critical role that
frank, comprehensive public education about sexuality, STD's, and
contraception play in this discussion. When the GOP supports
improving sex-education as a way to reduce unwanted pregnancy, then I'll
take them seriously.
Ironic that so many liberals, who are likely to be pro choice, like to point to
the health care systems of the European countries as examples of what America
should be doing. Now this news, which by the way I had never heard before.
Wonder why? I might add that the anti death penalty folks also use those same
"civilized" countries as examples of why America should not have a death
penalty. What a turn around.
Babies won't "buy" anything for 20+ years.Businesses look at
3 month quarter to quarter earnings, and not one day more.Deductibles for a live normal birth with NO complications - $2500.Deductible and coverage for a vasectomy is ZERO out of pocket.Businesses have to pay higher Healthcare costs for maternity coverageAND
coverage for the entire family of their employees :-( No to mention
the $Million coverage for pre-mature births.Businesses also must pay
paid for 6 weeks of maternity leave, and ask any working woman how the
boss or business reacts to her leaving early or missing work to take care of the
needs of her kids.Shall I continue?...There's so much
Okay, those who are trying to claim that the abortion issue is about protecting
the mother in a life in danger scenario are trying to sheild the truth. First
of all, that case is rare. Second, there is no reason why a law couldn't
accommodate that exception.The problem here is MURDER! Abortion is
killing--is murder. You do not have a right to play God and murder unborn
children? If you are religious, then you must know that you will be accountable
before God for murdering one of his children.If you are not
religious and believe that you became alive randomly, then you need to stop and
ponder the concept that had your organism been one of these aborted ones, you
would not exist. Now take a few moments and try to contemplate never existing.
After you have done so for an appropriate ammount of time, reconsider this
artificial debate about so-called women's rights. Roe vs. Wade made an
unconstitutional ruling, for the fetus of the unborn child has as much claim to
life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as the mother. We do not have the
right to choose consequences of our actions.
I also like the french attitudes towards discussing sex and preventing
@Roland Kayser – “Many conservative states seem to be saying that 20
weeks should be the cutoff for abortions. I think liberals should agree to this,
and then we can all call a truce on this divisive issue.”That
would be fine – I would even say the cutoff should be closer to 12 weeks
– but much of this fight is simply Newton’s 3rd Law of Motion
playing out in politics.There is a large segment of people who
believe a human being exists at conception. There’s nothing scientific
about this view… it’s a purely religious conviction. But they will
continue to make this a political fight until they get a Constitutional
Personhood Amendment (or all States to outlaw any abortion).The
other side is simply reacting to this fact with a “cede no ground”
strategy, while the rest of the world (the four counties Fiorina noted
notwithstanding) deals with this issue in a pragmatic, common sense way and goes
on with their business.Ironic that the country founded on compromise
(and apparently taught it to the world) is now largely incapable of practicing
this necessary feature of democratic self-government.
@The SolutionHalf of abortions are obtained by Catholics or evangelicals.
Let's face it, abortions will happen, the methods just get more desperate
if you reduce access to safe, legal abortions. The nation with the lowest
abortion rate isn't even one where it's illegal, it's Belgium.
Maybe if you actually cared about reducing abortions you'd support methods
proven to work like expanded access to birth control through universal coverage.
Instead you conservatives care about nothing more than shaming women who have
abortions, and then shaming women who are single parents on welfare. Guess what,
they chose life. They did what you wanted... and then you attack them. What
hypocrites you are.
The Solution: "The problem here is MURDER! Abortion is killing--is
murder...you will be accountable before God for murdering one of his
children."Really? Do you know how many pregnancies spontaneously
abort? About a third - most of the time the woman is completely unaware. And if
you really are religious, and you believe that Noah's flood was a real
historical event, how many small children and pregnant women did your God kill
in that flood? Fact is, the God you say you believe in is the biggest
abortionist/murderer of all time.Is a blastocyst a human? Seriously
- answer that.Will you acknowledge the critical role of
comprehensive sex education in lowering the abortion rates in other nations?If you're so concerned about the wellbeing of babies, will you
support the restoration of funding that Republicans are slashing for
children's healthcare programs? How about child nutrition and early
education? If your opposition to a woman's right to control
her own body really is motivated by a desire to protect babies, then where is
the evidence that you care about them after they're born?
Liberal,- Parents buy stuff for their babies every day.- Each baby
will buy a lifetime of stuff. Why would businesses want them aborted
instead?Businesses/employers don't control your vasectomy or
your birth control, they just pay for your insurance. When was the last time
your evil employer told you you couldn't have a vasectomy or an abortion?
Maybe your INSURANCE company does, but your evil employer has never told you
what procedures you can have (that's totally in the insurance
provider's court).Evil businesses seem to have no problem
giving employees maternity leave. Has your company ever complained about
maternity leave to you? You really think they would rather their employees have
abortions than take a few weeks of maternity leave??Please... tell
us more about how businesses would rather their employees have abortions than be
punished with a baby and all that maternity leave.Blue,The
letter didn't mention medically necessary abortions. Most realize there
are medically-required abortions (usually early-term). We're talking about
consensus here... not extremes.PSThe "backup-plan" for
those who support life is called "Adoption".
Does anyone have the unilateral right to destroy another human being?
Society's laws were written to protect those who cannot protect themselves.
The Court MUST appoint council for those brought before it if that accused
person cannot provide obtain his own council. But, in the case of abortion,
which by definition is the termination of life within the womb of a woman, that
soul whose life is being terminated has no legal representation. ONE PERSON and
only one person needs to demand that the life be terminated.It's easy to see how that happened. Evil and corrupt men, who wanted
sexual freedom without the responsibility to support their offspring, decided
that destroying a life before it was born would absolve them of financial
responsibility and public disgrace. Women whose motives were more important to
them than the life of an unborn baby, signed on. The Court, in total violation
to equal protection under the law, decreed that a woman could unilaterally
decide to destroy the life within her.The result, in America alone,
is that more than 55,000,000 children were NOT born, but were destroyed without
having representation AFTER life had commenced.
If we are going to talk about abortions in Germany and France, let's be
honest and do a real comparison.Teens in Germany and France are
educated about safer sex and have easy and cheap (sometimes free) access to
birth control. Access to legal abortion is easy and cheap so there are no
financial roadblocks to a timely abortion - in France, the cost of abortion is
reimbursable, making them, in effect, free.Later abortions are
allowed to save the mother's life or in cases of severe fetal
impairment.Both France and Germany ensure paid maternity leave at
100% for 14 or 16 weeks, including time before the due date. Both France and
Germany have universal healthcare. Both France and Germany provide money to
families to help care for the children and to help pay for childcare when the
mother returns to work.In other words, they have systems that
address the concerns of pro-choice individuals in the US because their systems
address the leading causes of abortion including preventing unwanted pregnancies
and making sure families can care for their children. Also, legal abortions are
easy to get.Please, let's fully adopt one of their systems.
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