Comments about ‘Letters: Unions not standing up for teachers’

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Published: Wednesday, Aug. 21 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

I laugh daily watching Utahns trampling Union workers, most with advanced Master's Degrees making $15 and hour, as making TOO much and ruining our economy believing they are veiled socialists and are trying to destroy America...

While cheering corporate CEOs making $60,000 an hour, who have done nothing more than promote and support REAL Communists in China while saying they are working SO hard, are worth each and every penny, and they deserve it!

Who is Babylon?
and who is Utah worshipping?

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

Of course Unions will not stand up for teachers. Its their money the unions want! Follow the money!

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

The sad truth is that the people who benefit people over business are put down while the people like the military who have done little to nothing for the people are made heroes because they benefit business operations.

Mike in Cedar City
Cedar City, Utah

The public needs to stand up for Unions, before it is too late, if it is not already too late.

Grover
Salt Lake City, UT

There is one and only one thing a union can do for its workers and that is to plan for and organize to withhold services in absence of better pay or working conditions. Without the threat of a strike the "union" is useless. The problem in Utah is that the hatred for anything to do with schools and unions runs so deep in the legislature that the possibility is real that they would respond with hiring non certified or even non college grads to fill in for the strikers. The schools run today with widespread understaffing so it seems certain there would never be enough people to replace any strikers. The pay for teachers in every State that touches Utah's borders is 20% to 60% higher than here and the prospect is that in ten years it will be twice that gap. Pathetic.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

I think the problem is the exact opposite.

Unions have no power anymore.

If anything, the public needs to support unions. It is the only way to combat the voucher hungry and greedy Utah Legislature, who are looking to strip education to the bone.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Imagine how fast the Utah State legislature would magically find the money to pull Utah out of the gutter of education nationally IF the Teachers actually could go on a short 2 week strike!

Problem solved...for EVERYBODY.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "I would advise all teachers to stand up in protest . . . ."

Yeah -- you have nothing to lose but your chains! Occupy the schoolroom!

What a load! Teachers with Master's DON'T get paid $15 and hour -- it's double that. And they make more in their 6/7-hour days and 9/10-month workyears than most Utah workers make in a full-time, full-year job.

These leftist, trade unionist, formulaic Common Core [TM] teachers can't seem to find the ability to teach, but they sure know how to whine.

The vast, vast majority of teachers are, of course, good teachers, with good skills and a good work ethic. But they are ill-served by a vocal, rapacious, left-leaning trade union that seems intent on making them all look bad.

It's sad that that we so seldom hear from them, as they're intimidated by attacks of that unholy alliance of marginal teachers, chronic whiners, and grasping union bosses, any time they publicly express the gratitude they feel for their calling, profession, and remuneration.

Samson01
S. Jordan, UT

I have a friend who was a teacher. He taught science and mathematics. He has a Masters degree. He simply decided that his skills were worth more elsewhere and they were. He stopped teaching. Now Utah is down a teacher. If other teachers did the same, the pay scale would go up. However, when my friend decided to get out of teaching, there were ten people lined up to take his job.

Supply and demand. It really is just that simple. If Utah were truly faced with a shortage of teachers, not the projected kind that we have seen in the past, but the close-the-schools kind, the legislature would do more to attract them. Right now? There are a lot of people talking but there really is no need for action.

Some would say that we should act before we go off the cliff but I think most of us feel that is just an empty threat. Until it actually happens, don't hold your breath for change.

The reason I do not support the teacher's union is because is subverts that process of supply and demand.

ugottabkidn
Sandy, UT

@ Ron Hill, just read the headline to your letter to see the crux of the problem. The conservative anti-union commenters as well as the sponsor of this forum shift the blame of our educational issues onto a powerless representative of a small minority of teachers. Again, I say over and over that blaming the only teacher advocate is a farce. It is the establishment of our community that continues to give education lip service and lip service only. You can nit-pick over how much a teacher or an administrator makes but the bottom line is that America is failing it's obligation to educate our children and Utah is failing at the same rate. We are being left behind the world because we will not quit the absurd quibbling. It's time to do it and quit the blame game.

let's roll
LEHI, UT

Many of us have teachers who have had a significant influence in our growth and maturation.

I can recall a few from my school days, which is one reason I revere teachers.

I suspect I'd have a different view of teachers if my teachers heeded this gentleman's advice and told me, "sorry I can't talk to you now, I'm off the clock."

In addition to my positive experience with teachers, my respect for the profession springs from my belief that most teachers have as their main motivation a love of learning and a desire to pass that love along to their students, and not a motivation to do as little as possible for the pay they receive.

I imagine there are some of both ilk in the profession and as a result, the writer's call to action will have no impact. Those motivated by the love of learning will ignore this gentleman's call to action, as it is contrary to their motivation and beliefs. Those motivated only by their paycheck have likely been doing only the bare minimum required and will continue to do so.

Irony Guy
Bountiful, Utah

As a former teacher, I don't feel comfortable with the idea of "working to contract." I believe a professional doesn't work to a clock. At the same time, the constant badmouthing and denigration of the educational profession is so prevalent in Utah that I'm surprised anyone wants to be a teacher here. People applying for a teaching job in Utah should get a psychological exam, not to tell if they're qualified but to check on their sanity.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

No teacher in Utah is REQUIRED to teach at a public school. If a teacher has the skills to teach at a school that pays more than his local public school, he is free to change jobs. Invoking a strike to force people to accept less than they have paid for is not the only way to "fix" education. Good teachers are in demand. Good teachers are paid well. Good teachers don't always teach at the public schools, just like good scientists, good engineers and good janitors don't always work for the government.

Those who want security will work for the government. Those who want to use their skills to help society will often work in the private sector.

Those whose skills are lacking will demand that a "union" protect them. Those whose skills are superior will let their skills do the "talking".

I don't know of anyone in my field who relies on a "union" for job protection. We stay trained. We provide the services expected. We don't complain. Maybe those complaining teachers should spend a few years working in the private sector to see what their skills are really worth.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "Ron Hill" what planet do you live on? Doctors, nurses, and EMTs are required by law to help others if they come across acident scenes where their help is needed. Mechanics, electricians, and plumbers are often taken advantage of by their neighbors looking for free help. Lawyers get the same treatment, along with real estate agents, accountants, and many other professionals.

You state that they should be paid for the hours that they work. We already do that. Teachers work 70% the number of days that most other professionals work, yet they want to be paid as much as everybody else.

If you want to go by hours in a year that they work, then they should be working the same number of hours. How many teachers do you know of that put in 11 hours every day? That is what they would have to put in to equal what an accountant does.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Actually, we are part of the best, most helpful and protective union in the history of the world. It sometimes goes by the name of United States of America. And while it is owned and controlled mostly by the management, ordinary people have benefited from its efforts.

HaHaHaHa
Othello, WA

Some simple math on 2000 hours a year (10hrs/day x 5day/week x 40weeks/yr) show that most teachers with an advanced degree making 60K, are earning $30/hr, not $15/hr. Nobody's holding a gun to your head, if you don't like those marbles, pick up and leave. I think there is a good reason why 10 people are waiting to take your place. If your so valuable, prove it in the real world. Kind of giving your the benefit of the doubt on the 10 hr a day thing, so the numbers above are being generous. Sure some teachers are in and out the door with the bell, and some come early and stay late. So what? I don't know why you all lump yourselves together, as though you all have the same value. Don't go on about all the extra work you do in the evening and crud. That is the real world, most people on a salary, do some sort of extra work, without extra compensation, or they pick up and move on if they are not happy!

squirt
Taylorsville, ut

My association has stood up for my students and my profession on multiple levels. I am proud to belong to the UEA and as I read the remarks of this writer, I have to say that he is out of touch with the work of the association and all they have done to uphold the profession and to fight for a great public school for every child.

Just one more anti-union diatribe with little or no knowledge of the facts. Truly sad.

Steve Cottrell
Centerville, UT

Unless things have changed considerably in the past 10 years, there are no lines of qualified teachers waiting to take jobs in physical sciences, mathematics, or special education. In fact the number of applicants for those jobs is often less than the number of openings EACH school year.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "We are being left behind the world because we will not quit the absurd quibbling. It's time to do it and quit the blame game."

Agreed.

So, when do think UEA/NEA might start to curb its absurd quibbling [not to mention its outright lying], quit the blame game that attempts to divert blame for its failures on parents, taxpayers, legislators -- and anyone else near at hand -- and get on with teaching?

Eric Samuelsen
Provo, UT

Samson:
To paraphrase: my highly qualified teacher friend quit, to make more money in the private sector. If more teachers did that, teacher salaries would go up, and education would improve.
Huh?

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